A Memory of Light Speculation

[FarShainMael]

(I have to wonder why, exactly, Ba'alzamon wanted to wipe out LTT's bloodline..)

 

I should think that is fairly straightforward - he didn't just have him kill his bloodline, he had him kill "every living person who loved him or who he loved." Such a thing would (and did) do incalculable damage to Lews Therin's mind and soul. Ba'alzamon wanted to bring him pain, and cause him to despair, if possible. Of course, Lews Therin did despair, but "escaped" by killing himself when confronted with what he had done.

 

Good point!

[b3arz3rg3r]

Again I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought the wording was along the lines of "he killed every living person who carried any of his blood"

 

Here's the quote:

 

"I stood at LTT's shoulder when he did the deed that named him. It was I who told him to kill his wife, and his children, and all his blood, and every living person who loved him or who he loved.'

 

So provided Ba'alzamon is not lying, Rand is not a blood relative of LTT.. but we knew that. He's of the Royal Line of Andor - being Tigraine's son - and he's Aiel. LTT doesn't come into it.

 

(I have to wonder why, exactly, Ba'alzamon wanted to wipe out LTT's bloodline..)

 

But we know that Ishy was lying so there's really no point in that line of thought. Ishy didn't have anything to do with LTT killing his own kin. LTT's madness did that all by itself. We saw that in the prologue of EotW.

[FarShainMael]

We saw the results of LTT's killing spree. We did not see on-screen how it started, whether he was told to do it by Ba'alzy, or what happened, so we can't make any definite statements about it.

[Vardar]

Again I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought the wording was along the lines of "he killed every living person who carried any of his blood"

 

Here's the quote:

 

"I stood at LTT's shoulder when he did the deed that named him. It was I who told him to kill his wife, and his children, and all his blood, and every living person who loved him or who he loved.'

 

So provided Ba'alzamon is not lying, Rand is not a blood relative of LTT.. but we knew that. He's of the Royal Line of Andor - being Tigraine's son - and he's Aiel. LTT doesn't come into it.

 

(I have to wonder why, exactly, Ba'alzamon wanted to wipe out LTT's bloodline..)

 

Hmm. I think Ba'alzamon was being ficitious. I mean really, how often do you have EVERY SINGLE person related to you in one place? I have reunions with hundreds of people, once maybe near a thousand, and it's never EVERYONE.

[Agitel]

Again I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought the wording was along the lines of "he killed every living person who carried any of his blood"

 

Here's the quote:

 

"I stood at LTT's shoulder when he did the deed that named him. It was I who told him to kill his wife, and his children, and all his blood, and every living person who loved him or who he loved.'

 

So provided Ba'alzamon is not lying, Rand is not a blood relative of LTT.. but we knew that. He's of the Royal Line of Andor - being Tigraine's son - and he's Aiel. LTT doesn't come into it.

 

(I have to wonder why, exactly, Ba'alzamon wanted to wipe out LTT's bloodline..)

 

Hmm. I think Ba'alzamon was being ficitious. I mean really, how often do you have EVERY SINGLE person related to you in one place? I have reunions with hundreds of people, once maybe near a thousand, and it's never EVERYONE.

 

LTT was having a victory bash at his house when he went mad. Everyone was invited.

 

Except uncle Bob, because nobody likes him. He showed up anyway. That's what set LTT off.

[tje]

I dont think Ishy told him to kill his family I think in the prologue he even tells LTT that he didnt have anything to do with it. That may have been an effort to drive him crazy but I dont believe so. I know Rand and LTT arent related by blood but I do think there is something important to the Dragons blood. or Rands blood since he is the new dragon.

[Neophyte]

I dont think Ishy told him to kill his family I think in the prologue he even tells LTT that he didnt have anything to do with it. That may have been an effort to drive him crazy but I dont believe so. I know Rand and LTT arent related by blood but I do think there is something important to the Dragons blood. or Rands blood since he is the new dragon.

 

Well, Ishamael didn't say that he "didnt have anything to do with it." He said "What hand slew Ilyena Sunhair, Kinslayer? Not mine. Not mine. What hand struck down every life that bore a drop of your blood, everyone who loved you, everyone you loved? Not mine, Kinslayer."

 

So, Ishamael did not personally strike them down with his own hands. But he certainly could have been whispering madness into Lews Therin's ear - even more in a metaphorical sense.

 

I'm not saying this is proof that he was telling the truth - Light knows, few lie as often or as effectively as Ishy - but nothing Ishamael has said contradicts it, either.

[thisguy]

I don't think Shaitan really cared about wiping out LTT's bloodline, he just wanted to torture LTT. What better way to do that then drive the man crazy enough to kill his own family and then have to live with the guilt?

[Stone Rocks Hold]

Aiel were "the people of the Dragon" even before the Breaking. It's interesting that Rand came from them on his father's side. It's also interesting that we see (on his mother's side) red hair.

 

I've wondered if Andoran nobility didn't descend (very distantly) from the Aiel, post-breaking. To my knowledge, those are the only two places where we meet red hair in the series. Obviously, there may have been other people in the AoL from which red hair could descend, but it seems like RJ has made a very subtle point with the physical descriptions given here. But maybe he's just throwing out a red hair-ing with the Andorans.

 

All that said, maybe the Aiel were somehow part of LTT's bloodline, in a way that hasn't been explained yet. If my hazy memory serves me correctly, the name "People of the Dragon" was a secret even during the Age of Legends.

 

LTT didn't look like one of the Aiel, so maybe the explanation isn't straight-forward. I would expect nothing less, though, from RJ.

[thisguy]

Aiel were "the people of the Dragon" even before the Breaking. It's interesting that Rand came from them on his father's side. It's also interesting that we see (on his mother's side) red hair.

 

I've wondered if Andoran nobility didn't descend (very distantly) from the Aiel, post-breaking. To my knowledge, those are the only two places where we meet red hair in the series. Obviously, there may have been other people in the AoL from which red hair could descend, but it seems like RJ has made a very subtle point with the physical descriptions given here. But maybe he's just throwing out a red hair-ing with the Andorans.

 

All that said, maybe the Aiel were somehow part of LTT's bloodline, in a way that hasn't been explained yet. If my hazy memory serves me correctly, the name "People of the Dragon" was a secret even during the Age of Legends.

 

LTT didn't look like one of the Aiel, so maybe the explanation isn't straight-forward. I would expect nothing less, though, from RJ.

 

I know they were called that because they served LTT somehow and that their prophecies were that they would again - meaning Rand. The way they serve the two of them seems to be diametrically opposite.

 

About the redhead thing - I've wondered that, too. Although, Sheriam is a redhead.

[Vardar]

Again I may be remembering incorrectly but I thought the wording was along the lines of "he killed every living person who carried any of his blood"

 

Here's the quote:

 

"I stood at LTT's shoulder when he did the deed that named him. It was I who told him to kill his wife, and his children, and all his blood, and every living person who loved him or who he loved.'

 

So provided Ba'alzamon is not lying, Rand is not a blood relative of LTT.. but we knew that. He's of the Royal Line of Andor - being Tigraine's son - and he's Aiel. LTT doesn't come into it.

 

(I have to wonder why, exactly, Ba'alzamon wanted to wipe out LTT's bloodline..)

 

Hmm. I think Ba'alzamon was being ficitious. I mean really, how often do you have EVERY SINGLE person related to you in one place? I have reunions with hundreds of people, once maybe near a thousand, and it's never EVERYONE.

 

LTT was having a victory bash at his house when he went mad. Everyone was invited.

 

Except uncle Bob, because nobody likes him. He showed up anyway. That's what set LTT off.

 

LOL! There's always one uncle...

[Vardar]

Aiel were "the people of the Dragon" even before the Breaking. It's interesting that Rand came from them on his father's side. It's also interesting that we see (on his mother's side) red hair.

 

I've wondered if Andoran nobility didn't descend (very distantly) from the Aiel, post-breaking. To my knowledge, those are the only two places where we meet red hair in the series. Obviously, there may have been other people in the AoL from which red hair could descend, but it seems like RJ has made a very subtle point with the physical descriptions given here. But maybe he's just throwing out a red hair-ing with the Andorans.

 

All that said, maybe the Aiel were somehow part of LTT's bloodline, in a way that hasn't been explained yet. If my hazy memory serves me correctly, the name "People of the Dragon" was a secret even during the Age of Legends.

 

LTT didn't look like one of the Aiel, so maybe the explanation isn't straight-forward. I would expect nothing less, though, from RJ.

 

I know they were called that because they served LTT somehow and that their prophecies were that they would again - meaning Rand. The way they serve the two of them seems to be diametrically opposite.

 

About the redhead thing - I've wondered that, too. Although, Sheriam is a redhead.

 

 

She does have red hair, but she's dumpy. The Andorean Noble line was described to have the coloring, hair, eyes and height if I recall correctly.

[Mulk]

It's never explained in the series how the Aiel garnered that name. I kinda get the feeling that they were known as such before it was known LTT was the Dragon, but that may be off.

[Vardar]

It's never explained in the series how the Aiel garnered that name. I kinda get the feeling that they were known as such before it was known LTT was the Dragon, but that may be off.

It's explained in the big white book. I just randomly read it today. They gained the name in the AOL because of their dedication to LTT and his cause, they kept to their way while society crumbled around them and sitll managed to support the dragon.

[thisguy]

Today, I think Rand is going to kill Padan Fain. I think Book 2 of the series lays out quite a bit of foreshadowing (although, it may have changed since then) but the last thing Rand says in the book is that his only remaining responsibility is to kill Fain.

 

I also think that somehow Perrin will song the lost song of the Aiel (in High Chant) and make the blight fertile again. Although, that may be after the Final Battle.

[thisguy]

Aiel were "the people of the Dragon" even before the Breaking. It's interesting that Rand came from them on his father's side. It's also interesting that we see (on his mother's side) red hair.

 

I've wondered if Andoran nobility didn't descend (very distantly) from the Aiel, post-breaking. To my knowledge, those are the only two places where we meet red hair in the series. Obviously, there may have been other people in the AoL from which red hair could descend, but it seems like RJ has made a very subtle point with the physical descriptions given here. But maybe he's just throwing out a red hair-ing with the Andorans.

 

All that said, maybe the Aiel were somehow part of LTT's bloodline, in a way that hasn't been explained yet. If my hazy memory serves me correctly, the name "People of the Dragon" was a secret even during the Age of Legends.

 

LTT didn't look like one of the Aiel, so maybe the explanation isn't straight-forward. I would expect nothing less, though, from RJ.

 

I know they were called that because they served LTT somehow and that their prophecies were that they would again - meaning Rand. The way they serve the two of them seems to be diametrically opposite.

 

About the redhead thing - I've wondered that, too. Although, Sheriam is a redhead.

 

 

She does have red hair, but she's dumpy. The Andorean Noble line was described to have the coloring, hair, eyes and height if I recall correctly.

 

Hahaha! Yeah, she's dumpy but there's got to be some redheads in the story who are. My point is, just because the Aiel were mostly redheads doesn't mean they were the only redheads.

[Lurk No More]

I believe the aftermath in the prologue of TEotW, and the killing of all of his bloodline was LLT's greatest failure, whereby he gave in to the temptaions of the DO, and lost hope.

 

Counterpoint to Rand's moment of clairity and the successful intergration on Dragonmount. Rand made the right choice, LLT did not.

[Guest Thomas]

I haven't seen anyone else come up with this yet (if it has been mentioned and there's discussion of it somewhere please let me know). I believe that the prophecy "Red on black, the Dragons blood stains the rocks of Shayol Ghul" is not referring to Galads death or Rands physical blood, but Rand and Elaynes children being born immediately before or during the last battle. While it seems that Elaynes pregnancy won't quite have taken it's full course by the time of the LB we also know that her children will be very special; born able to channel with extreme power and ability. It seems possible to me that these children could be born earlier than most and therefore be present at the LB because Elayne will surely be there. I think that it will be Rands children who are the key to winning the LB.

 

Again I don't know if anyone else has brought this up and it's a very hypothetical theory, but please let me know your thoughts.

[thisguy]

I haven't seen anyone else come up with this yet (if it has been mentioned and there's discussion of it somewhere please let me know). I believe that the prophecy "Red on black, the Dragons blood stains the rocks of Shayol Ghul" is not referring to Galads death or Rands physical blood, but Rand and Elaynes children being born immediately before or during the last battle. While it seems that Elaynes pregnancy won't quite have taken it's full course by the time of the LB we also know that her children will be very special; born able to channel with extreme power and ability. It seems possible to me that these children could be born earlier than most and therefore be present at the LB because Elayne will surely be there. I think that it will be Rands children who are the key to winning the LB.

 

Again I don't know if anyone else has brought this up and it's a very hypothetical theory, but please let me know your thoughts.

 

I don't know if you're correct or not, but that's some good thinking! Nice one!

[shortkut]

I thought that it was Avi's children that were special. All we know about Elayne's children is that they are born healthy. They may not be able to channel

[FarShainMael]

That's all we know, certainly, but there is speculation that they may be Calian and Shivan, the heralds of a New Age:

 

http://encyclopaedia..._of_valere.html

 

And down the clouds they rode.. the dead heroes of legend.. Artur Hawkwing himself.. Shivan the Hunter behind his black mask.. said to herald the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be, he and his sister Calian, called the Chooser, who rode red-masked at his side..

 

(I'm also reminded of this:

"Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.")

 

While it is true that Elayne is only an estimated 5 months into her pregnancy, Terez has drawn our attention to this little slice of mythology:

 

http://www.lifeasmyt...BoannDagda.html

 

All night long Dagda and Boann played at lovemaking and by sunrise, she carried the promise of a child inside her. Fearing the retaliation of Nuada, Dagda found a way to conceal the pregnancy. He took out his magic harp and played. His music so bewitched Time and Space that they refused to move forward, choosing instead to remain with the lovers and spiral around them unceasingly. In this way, nine months expired in the Otherworld, while in the mortal world, only one day actually passed.

 

Perhaps we may see Elayne completing her pregnancy in T'a'R, and the twins growing up there!

[thisguy]

All right, so I'm about a 1/3 of the way through The Dragon Reborn. My first reread of the series in easily over 5 years. Here's some thoughts:

 

1. "he...shall slay his people with the sword of peace, and destroy them with the leaf."

 

Sword of peace can mean the Dragon's Peace - as per Aviendha's terangeal vision. Either way, I think "destroy them with the leaf' probably refers to the fact that the Aiel once followed the way of the leaf. I think that whatever, magic, ceremony, whatever that used to be used to make the land fertile will be found again. I think their blood is connected to it and I think it's a possibility that they will have to take up the way of the leaf again, thus destroying present day aiel culture.

 

2. Perrin's going to speak in high chant - that's foreshadowed by Leane (I believe) saying at her first meeting with Perrin in book two something along the lines of "Next, he'll wear a crown and speak in high chant." Min sees the crown in her vision and trees in book one. I think Perrin's somehow connected with making the land fertile again and the song that the Tinkers have been looking for. He's been connected with Tinkers and Wolves from book one. He's struggled with being a ferocious warrior and someone who mends and creates since book one. I think his big deal will be to heal the land.

 

Thoughts, comments, snacks, hor dourves?

[thisguy]

Thinking about it, that whole passage in the Karatheon Cycle about Rand's blood on the rock of Shayol Ghul could be part of bring the land back to being fit for human and animal habitation.

[Guest Noah Stevens]

Okay, so this is how I think it'll all go down:

 

1) Moiraine shows up and b-slaps Egwene. She gets all up in her grill like "RAND IS RIGHT ABOUT THE SEALS AND UR DUMB"

2) Egwene doesn't listen, she ports an army right into Tarwin's gap and saves Lan as he's about to be overrun.

3) Mat rushes in, saves Caemlyn and plugs the waygate.

4) Rand Ta'averen's Fortuona and convinces her to show up at the field of Merrilor.

5) There Rand is about to announce the Dragon's peace when Aviendha shows up and is all like "NNNOOOOOOOOOOO INCLUDE THE AIEL"

6) Min figures out Callandor, Nyneave and Moiraine go to the bore with him and help him seal it.

7) Battles

8) Rand dies but shows up in MEA's dreams every night.

First of all, how did Moiraine get to Egwene? We don't know if she knows about the meeting, or about traveling. Also, why wouldn't Mat go with her, or Moiraine go with Mat to Caemlyn? And why would Rand not include the Aiel in a peace when Aiel are often more violent (or at least more open about it), especially considering his relationship with Avienda.

[Story Archer]

Just throwing this out there. I was thinking how cool/bittersweet it would be for Lan to die, either in Nynaeve's arms or before she could get to him... and then to have him reappear, reborn as one of the newest Heros of the Horn when it is blown for a final reunion.