A Memory of Light Speculation

[Naggash]

oh right I did forget about the fight for the two rivers, but alas with his coalition forces his army did have a spine of hardened troops (being the Aiel, to some degree TR's)

 

I am still maintaining that the bulk of his army (the former refugees and such) are obviously the most brittle and likely to break, in his taveren presence I doubt they will though, I just read through his rescue of the WC's and if he could mount a charge from heights that where dangerous to move down in the dark without any casualties the moral of the men can be effected by the taveren nature too

I think in this case it has nothing to do with being ta'veren. Perrin's army is almost devoted to him. It's like the Band with Mat. They will go anywhere he commands them, they will follow him to any battle and they will fight for him without doubts. People may be surprised or frightened the first time they see a Trolloc, that happened to Tylee, but they won't flee.

As far as I know the only army to have people fleeing is the WC and most of those were Amadicians.

I don't see people fleeing in the LB. Even farmers, blacksmiths, etc seem to have accepted that it's coming, and gone on their own to the FoM to join the fight. No, no fleeing in the LB. Everyone will be informed of what they may see, and they know if they lose, they lose everything.

[Durinax]

oh right I did forget about the fight for the two rivers, but alas with his coalition forces his army did have a spine of hardened troops (being the Aiel, to some degree TR's)

 

I am still maintaining that the bulk of his army (the former refugees and such) are obviously the most brittle and likely to break, in his taveren presence I doubt they will though, I just read through his rescue of the WC's and if he could mount a charge from heights that where dangerous to move down in the dark without any casualties the moral of the men can be effected by the taveren nature too

I think in this case it has nothing to do with being ta'veren. Perrin's army is almost devoted to him. It's like the Band with Mat. They will go anywhere he commands them, they will follow him to any battle and they will fight for him without doubts. People may be surprised or frightened the first time they see a Trolloc, that happened to Tylee, but they won't flee.

As far as I know the only army to have people fleeing is the WC and most of those were Amadicians.

I don't see people fleeing in the LB. Even farmers, blacksmiths, etc seem to have accepted that it's coming, and gone on their own to the FoM to join the fight. No, no fleeing in the LB. Everyone will be informed of what they may see, and they know if they lose, they lose everything.

if there is no dramatic loss of moral I will be very upset. I think there will be a lot of desertions among the non taveren leaders for a while (the taveren seem to have a bonus to order (both natural and among men)

[Naggash]

oh right I did forget about the fight for the two rivers, but alas with his coalition forces his army did have a spine of hardened troops (being the Aiel, to some degree TR's)

 

I am still maintaining that the bulk of his army (the former refugees and such) are obviously the most brittle and likely to break, in his taveren presence I doubt they will though, I just read through his rescue of the WC's and if he could mount a charge from heights that where dangerous to move down in the dark without any casualties the moral of the men can be effected by the taveren nature too

I think in this case it has nothing to do with being ta'veren. Perrin's army is almost devoted to him. It's like the Band with Mat. They will go anywhere he commands them, they will follow him to any battle and they will fight for him without doubts. People may be surprised or frightened the first time they see a Trolloc, that happened to Tylee, but they won't flee.

As far as I know the only army to have people fleeing is the WC and most of those were Amadicians.

I don't see people fleeing in the LB. Even farmers, blacksmiths, etc seem to have accepted that it's coming, and gone on their own to the FoM to join the fight. No, no fleeing in the LB. Everyone will be informed of what they may see, and they know if they lose, they lose everything.

if there is no dramatic loss of moral I will be very upset. I think there will be a lot of desertions among the non taveren leaders for a while (the taveren seem to have a bonus to order (both natural and among men)

I won't say it's imposible, but I don't see it. I find more probable to have some DF among the armies to cause disagreement and screw thing around.

 

Offtopic, I like your quote:

It is not titles that honour men, it'ss men that honour titles.

Some people in Spain could learn something about it.

[Durinax]

Offtopic, I like your quote:

It is not titles that honour men, it'ss men that honour titles.

Some people in Spain could learn something about it.

thanks, its machiavelli (I believe)

 

people can learn from that concept the world over

[Vardar]

Re Colinda, the channelling wise one..

http://encyclopaedia.../c/colinda.html

 

While reminding myself of some of Min's Viewings, I came across this, which took place just after Rand ( who is resting after struggling with LTT and saidar in LoC49) is thoroughly examined by the Wise Ones Sorilea, Amys, Bair, and Colinda:

 

Once Sorilea and the rest reluctantly concluded that all he needed was rest, and departed ordering him to see that he got it, Min made herself comfortable on his lap again. "They talk in dreams?" she said, shaking her head. "It doesn't seem possible, like something out of a story." A frown creased her forehead. "How old do you think Sorilea is? And that Colinda. I saw - No. No, it doesn't have anything to do with you. Maybe the heat is affecting me. When I know, I always know. It must be the heat."

 

Earlier we meet Colinda in the Royal Library, where she is in a group who are watchng for Nesune, who is interested in the seals (LoC25). Later on she is routing various AS to Verin for questioning. And that's about the last we see of her.

 

So I'm wondering what's going on with Min's Viewing of her. None of her Viewings are insignificant. What exactly did Min see? Was it that Colinda was unbelievably old? Something to do with Dreamwalking? And is the part about the seals in the Library significant?

 

For some reason I assumed it meant she would have a child.

[dhammett11]

Oh boy, I have me some AMoL speculation in regards that "something odd about Aviendha's babies" viewing, inspired by this gem of quote I've somehow just noticed:

 

Lord of Chaos book tour Washington, DC 31 October 1994 - Judy Ghiradelli reporting

Q: "Theoretically...if someone...had sex in Tel'aran'rhiod, could they be pregnant in the real world?

RJ: Read and find out. I like the dirty questions! You notice it's always the women who ask the dirty questions, never the men.

 

I'll be crestfallen if this doesn't pan out.

[Demon_AS]

Rand:

 

- Forges the Dragon's Peace.

- Figures out Callandor's true purpose.

- Forges a peace with the Seanchan using Mat's help.

- Cleanes the BT.

- Confronts Demandred, defeats him but sustains one more (fatal) injury.

- Confronts Moridin/the DO at the Bore, defeats one and seals the other using Callandor.

 

Mat:

 

- Rides back to meet Tuon.

- Convinces her to make peace with Rand.

- Travels to the WT and reclaims the Horn of Valere (HoV).

- Rejoins the BotRH in time for TG.

- Sounds the HoV one more time.

 

Perrin:

 

- Helps Rand forge the Dragon's Peace at the Fields of Merrilor.

- Continues his battle against Slayer in T'A'R.

- Leads the wolves in TG.

- Lives as Lord of the Two Rivers.

 

Min:

 

- Solves the mystery of Callandor.

- Stress relief for Rand.

 

Aviendha:

 

- Solves the future of the Aiel issue.

- At some point gets jiggy with Rand to spawn her quadruplets.

 

Elayne:

 

- Gives birth to her twins.

- Probably irritates me with every POV in the book without actually accomplishing anything of use. (/cynical)

 

Nynaeve:

 

- Heals everything in the whole world ever.

- Links with Rand to wield Callandor in order to seal the Bore/defeat the DO.

[Vardar]

Oh boy, I have me some AMoL speculation in regards that "something odd about Aviendha's babies" viewing, inspired by this gem of quote I've somehow just noticed:

 

 

Lord of Chaos book tour Washington, DC 31 October 1994 - Judy Ghiradelli reporting

 

Q: "Theoretically...if someone...had sex in Tel'aran'rhiod, could they be pregnant in the real world?

RJ: Read and find out. I like the dirty questions! You notice it's always the women who ask the dirty questions, never the men.

 

I'll be crestfallen if this doesn't pan out.

 

Why have I never seen this?

[Tiinker]

Oh boy, I have me some AMoL speculation in regards that "something odd about Aviendha's babies" viewing, inspired by this gem of quote I've somehow just noticed:

 

 

Lord of Chaos book tour Washington, DC 31 October 1994 - Judy Ghiradelli reporting

 

Q: "Theoretically...if someone...had sex in Tel'aran'rhiod, could they be pregnant in the real world?

RJ: Read and find out. I like the dirty questions! You notice it's always the women who ask the dirty questions, never the men.

 

I'll be crestfallen if this doesn't pan out.

 

Why have I never seen this?

 

Damn.. sh*t just got serious.

[FarShainMael]

Re Fain.. In another thread, someone suggested that one of the 'two dead men' in Min's ToM13 viewing of Rand might be Fain. Now I don't know why I get this feeling, but for some reason when I think about Fain getting killed, I find myself thinking his body will dissolve into mist..

 

 

(Aaargh.. tpyoes..)

[FarShainMael]

Moved from the 'unanswered questions' thread:

 

Has Ilyena been reborn, and if so, as who?

 

Moiraine?

Alanna?

I thought Ilyena reborn was clearly Elayne? Very similar name and apperance and a lover of Rand.

There's a physical resemblance, certainly. At one point early in the books Rand taps a memory from LTT that compares Elayne's hair to Ilyena's, being the same 'sun-gold'. But I don't think that's enough: Rand is nothing like LTT physically, after all, as shown by the EotW prologue.

 

Tere's also the point that Rand's harem appears to be a thematic representation of the triad of maiden (Avi), mother (Elayne), and 'crone or adviser' (Min):

 

http://en.wikipedia....ss_(Neopaganism)

 

If that was RJ's intention, I can't see him separating out one of them as being more significant than the other two.

 

Elayne may be related to Ilyena, though not directly since LTT killed his entire family.

 

I've heard it suggested that the three have a single soul - Ilyena - shared between them, but apparently RJ ruled that out, saying you can't split souls.

 

But then there's Alanna, the wild card. Her name is not dissimilar to Ilyena. She appears to have developed an emotional connection to Rand after she bonded him. And now she's gone away, for no clear reason. Did her letter from Verin say 'Flee at once, all is known'..

[tje]

Since Arthur Hawking is a hero of the horn. What will happen when Mat blows it in the presence of the Seanchan and they get to see hawking come back and fight for the Dragon?

[Vardar]

Moved from the 'unanswered questions' thread:

 

Has Ilyena been reborn, and if so, as who?

 

Moiraine?

Alanna?

I thought Ilyena reborn was clearly Elayne? Very similar name and apperance and a lover of Rand.

There's a physical resemblance, certainly. At one point early in the books Rand taps a memory from LTT that compares Elayne's hair to Ilyena's, being the same 'sun-gold'. But I don't think that's enough: Rand is nothing like LTT physically, after all, as shown by the EotW prologue.

 

Tere's also the point that Rand's harem appears to be a thematic representation of the triad of maiden (Avi), mother (Elayne), and 'crone or adviser' (Min):

 

http://en.wikipedia....ss_(Neopaganism)

 

If that was RJ's intention, I can't see him separating out one of them as being more significant than the other two.

 

Elayne may be related to Ilyena, though not directly since LTT killed his entire family.

 

I've heard it suggested that the three have a single soul - Ilyena - shared between them, but apparently RJ ruled that out, saying you can't split souls.

 

But then there's Alanna, the wild card. Her name is not dissimilar to Ilyena. She appears to have developed an emotional connection to Rand after she bonded him. And now she's gone away, for no clear reason. Did her letter from Verin say 'Flee at once, all is known'..

 

Power level travels with the soul right? So if Elayne is her, that would mean she was fairly weak. But how much did power level matter back then? Do we know that?

[FarShainMael]

Since Arthur Hawking is a hero of the horn. What will happen when Mat blows it in the presence of the Seanchan and they get to see hawking come back and fight for the Dragon?

 

It will probably blow the Empress's mind (mslf). The Seanchan revere Hawkwing.. and he will quite possible put his great^n heir over his knee!

[FarShainMael]

Odd, my other post seems to have evaporated..

 

Re power levels and their significance in the AoL: I've not come across anything on that. But this places Elayne on a level with Avi and Egwene (level 15).

[Vardar]

Odd, my other post seems to have evaporated..

 

Re power levels and their significance in the AoL: I've not come across anything on that. But this places Elayne on a level with Avi and Egwene (level 15).

 

I know what level she is, but Illyena earned the 3rd name right? It was given for great accomplishments, and in my mind I'd assume that meant she was pretty damn powerful. Elayne, Avi and Eggy, while powerufl in today's world, don't even rank with the weakest of the forsaken.

 

It was just a thought, not to discount your theory. That's why I asked about do we know how much power meant in the AOL. I mean, we know power alone couldn't get your everything, but from what we know, most of the greats were powerful as well.

[FarShainMael]

You're quite right about power levels, I'd forgotten that about the significance of the third name!

 

But there seems to be some confusion about things here. It's not me whose wondering whether Elayne is Ilyena reborn, it's DragonChi. I don't think she is, and I gave my reasons in post #461 above (though I may not have been clear enough about that!)

 

My possible candidates for Ilyena reborn remain Moiraine and Alanna - as I posted on the 'unanswered questions' thread. Neither of these are even up to Elayne's level; but AIUI, channelling strength originates in the soul but is modified by the body. Recall what happened to CynFear.

[Vardar]

You're quite right about power levels, I'd forgotten that about the significance of the third name!

 

But there seems to be some confusion about things here. It's not me whose wondering whether Elayne is Ilyena reborn, it's DragonChi. I don't think she is, and I gave my reasons in post #461 above (though I may not have been clear enough about that!)

 

My possible candidates for Ilyena reborn remain Moiraine and Alanna - as I posted on the 'unanswered questions' thread. Neither of these are even up to Elayne's level; but AIUI, channelling strength originates in the soul but is modified by the body. Recall what happened to CynFear.

 

AIUI?

 

Cyn/Fear was broken because of the Finn right? They drained her so she was modified.

[holiday]

I'm sure this has been talked about already, but I'd like to think that Birgitte's predicament can be resolved somehow when Mat blows the horn again. I expect to hear more about what's ahead for her and the potential consequences of her fighting in the Last Battle.

[FarShainMael]

You're quite right about power levels, I'd forgotten that about the significance of the third name!

 

But there seems to be some confusion about things here. It's not me whose wondering whether Elayne is Ilyena reborn, it's DragonChi. I don't think she is, and I gave my reasons in post #461 above (though I may not have been clear enough about that!)

 

My possible candidates for Ilyena reborn remain Moiraine and Alanna - as I posted on the 'unanswered questions' thread. Neither of these are even up to Elayne's level; but AIUI, channelling strength originates in the soul but is modified by the body. Recall what happened to CynFear.

 

AIUI?

 

Cyn/Fear was broken because of the Finn right? They drained her so she was modified.

 

AIUI = As I Understand It

 

Cyndane's body is not Lanfear's. Lanfear is described in TGH48 as having 'pale, smooth skin, long, black hair and eyes dark as night', and in TFoH Prologue as tall and slender. Cyndane is described in TPoD12 as being a short young woman with long silver hair, vivid blue eyes and an impressive bosom. For this change to have happened, Lanfear must have died and been transmigrated. Possibly she died as a result of the draining you mentioned.

[FarShainMael]

I'm sure this has been talked about already, but I'd like to think that Birgitte's predicament can be resolved somehow when Mat blows the horn again. I expect to hear more about what's ahead for her and the potential consequences of her fighting in the Last Battle.

 

That would be interesting to watch... But I have a feeling she will die in the fighting in Caemlyn.

[snooze1128]

I am confused as to why Lanfear was reserrected in the form of Cyndane in the first place. We know long before the Aelfin scene at the end of Towers of Midnight that the DO can somehow reincarnate his buddies, and that Lanfear is brought back with a new name & body (Cyndane). However, if I remember correctly, when Mat is rescuing Moraine from the Aelfin, the Aelfin tell Mat that a man had already come to claim "the other woman" (aka Lanfear).

Now, for me, this leads to a few really interesting topics:

1. Who is it that rescues Lanfear? My guess would be Moridin.
   
2. Why does somebody go to the Aelfin tower to fetch Lanfear's body, only to resurrect her in a different form (presumably killing her before the resurrection)?
   
3. Both Moraine and Cyndane are noticeably weaker after their time in Aelfin land. This makes me think that channelers lose their abilities over time in the Aelfin tower--Moraine more so than Cyndane, as she was trapped in there for a longer period of time. So it seems that, the longer you spend in Aelfin land, the weaker you become in the one power... Thoughts & criticisms welcome!
   

[FarShainMael]

1. I would agree..

 

2. To get her out of the 'finn's clutches perhaps? I don't think the 'rescuer' killed her - he didn't have to, she may have already been dead / dying from whatever the 'finns did to her.

 

3. Moiraine said that the 'finns fed on her, on her sorrow at what she was losing and on the power itself, and reduced her capacity greatly. That would have taken time, but we don't know if she would have lost power passively simply by being there rather than activerly through the finns feeding on it. It's quite possible that channellers may experience a passive loss of power, 'finnland is very different to Randland, and may use it as fuel.

[snooze1128]

Good point, I totally forgot about Moraine's explanation of the Fins and how they like to feed on the one power. Still, this leaves two possibilities. Either Lanfear was directly killed by the Aelfin, and Moridin (or some other Foresaken) had to rescue her in order to resurrect her as Cyndane, OR Lanfear was so pathetically weak in Saidir (just as Moraine is, now), that the DO chose to kill her, then resurrect her simply to improve her Saidir channeling skills.

 

None of this is likely to be very relevant in the last book, but I think it's interesting to think about, as Moraine and Cyndane will surely play major roles in determining who wins the last battle and all that jazz..

[shortkut]

Mat made a deal to get Moiraine out. I don't remember but i do not believe that Moridin made a deal. If he just tried to take her, maybe she died on the way out goad they still had a hold on her