Discuss Rand

[johthohar]

We know that Rand is now totally in his element, as devious as LTT, as calm as an AS, as honest as Tam and as dangerous as a clan of Aiel. So why the meeting at FoM? It cannot be that they go pub-hopping afterward. He wants to extract a price on the monarchs of the world, and probably will fulfill the 'cutting the wetlands into two' dream here, but I do not believe it will be as simple as that. This is a Bait. The Shadow cannot miss an opportunity to assassinate all of the world's leaders at one sitting, or maybe attack their cities while they are not there. I'm betting there's a Portal Stone at FoM.

True enough, Rand could be intending to weed out some more Dark Friends from his armies. He doesn't know that Egwene has cleansed the White Tower with Verin's help of the Black Ajah so he could be intended to hunt down some of those as well. The only problem with that was that he was already in Tar Valon, so he should have seen there weren't any, or any present at the time at any rate.

 

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I don't think it was actually confirmed anywhere that he can identify any darkfriend on sight. Other than when he said "They can't hide among my allies anymore." There could be a way to hide whatever indicators he's learned to pick out with some kind of weave, couldn't there? Or has Sanderson confirmed that he's an automatic DF detecting machine now?

[f3llyn]

Maybe he's not exactly a dark friend detector so much as he is a dark friend ward.

 

"The shadow does not need her (Alanna) to find me, Min, nor will it ever again. All its eyes are fixed directly upon me, and will be until I blind them."

 

Rand eventually reach him. "Meet my eyes, Weiramon," Rand said softly.

"My Lord Dragon, surely I am not worthy to--"

"Do it."

"So it is you," Rand said. Min could feel his disappointment. Rand looked to the side, to where Anaiyella stood last in line. The pretty woman had pulled away from Rand, her head turned. "Both of you."

"My Lord--" Weiramon began.

"I want you to deliver a message for me," Rand said. "To the others of your...association. Tell them that they cannot hide among my allies any longer."

Weiramon tried to bluster, but Rand took a step closer. Weiramon's eyes opened wide, and Anaiyella cried out, shading her face.

"Tell them," Rand continued, voice soft but demanding, "that I am no longer blind."

 

So his new light power is obviously coming into play here and perhaps he can just tell by their reactions? It's hard to say if it's just their reaction to his presence or if he actually sees something different in them. I get the impression he was about to explain what exactly happened in that scene to Min when Tam appeared and stopped him mid sentence.

[Locke]

He is going to propose/force the Dragon's Peace.

[johthohar]

Maybe he's not exactly a dark friend detector so much as he is a dark friend ward.

 

"The shadow does not need her (Alanna) to find me, Min, nor will it ever again. All its eyes are fixed directly upon me, and will be until I blind them."

 

Rand eventually reach him. "Meet my eyes, Weiramon," Rand said softly.

"My Lord Dragon, surely I am not worthy to--"

"Do it."

"So it is you," Rand said. Min could feel his disappointment. Rand looked to the side, to where Anaiyella stood last in line. The pretty woman had pulled away from Rand, her head turned. "Both of you."

"My Lord--" Weiramon began.

"I want you to deliver a message for me," Rand said. "To the others of your...association. Tell them that they cannot hide among my allies any longer."

Weiramon tried to bluster, but Rand took a step closer. Weiramon's eyes opened wide, and Anaiyella cried out, shading her face.

"Tell them," Rand continued, voice soft but demanding, "that I am no longer blind."

 

So his new light power is obviously coming into play here and perhaps he can just tell by their reactions? It's hard to say if it's just their reaction to his presence or if he actually sees something different in them. I get the impression he was about to explain what exactly happened in that scene to Min when Tam appeared and stopped him mid sentence.

 

Okay. Now that that scene is fresh in my mind maybe he has to examine them closely before he can tell? He can't very well go down the line of his entire army and look each one in the eye. Maybe by "allies" he means like his close advisors. Or maybe I'm totally off base and darkfriends just stick out like a sore thumb to him now.

[Crael123]

Please let this not degenerate into a strength of channelers discussion. Eventually the mods step and ban those threads after everybody has gone round and round a few dozen times.

 

Yeah your right sorry.

 

 

And what does rand mean when he wants to "blind" the shadow's eyes? Killing them all? or what?

[Jon Paul]

FoM:

 

Egwene: "Rand, you cannot break the Seals. Do not force my hand."

Rand: "Eh.. sorry, I just done that about two minutes ago."

Egwene: "WHAT?"

Rand: "Yea, you should see your face."

Egwene: "Then.. why did you want me here! I brought all these people here to help me oppose you!"

Rand: "Oh yea, about that.. thanks for getting them all here. I was a bit busy and had to out-source some work."

Egwene: ":o... then why..?"

Rand: "You're going to make peace with the Seanchan."

Egwene: "Rand, you are obviously insane. You are now forcing me to play my hand."

Rand: "Fine, don't make peace. Did I mention that if indeed you do not, I wont go and save the world?"

 

[TWO WEEKS LATER]

 

Egwene: "Tuon! So good to see you girl! Love the hair-do. Is that a new dress?"

 

[WATCHING FROM THE SHADOWS]

 

Rand: "Damn.. hoped I could avoid that whole Shayol Ghul thing for a minute there.."

[Locke]

Lol, nice. Something like that would be extremely satisfying. =D

[Ltsegarra]

I believe that most people incorrectly guessbat what the "thick black" cords attached to the forsaken are. Most people simply attribute it as a protection from the "taint". Would Jordan have used a description of an "encasing" rather than a cord attached to something? I will continue to believe that not only was it protection from the "taint" but an actual attachment to the Dark One and the True Power. This is now how Rand "see" dark friends and not some "mystical" power. Though not written as such, Nynaeve indicates something simple by acknowledging the "black spikes" attached to Rand.

[grolm]

I believe that most people incorrectly guessbat what the "thick black" cords attached to the forsaken are. Most people simply attribute it as a protection from the "taint". Would Jordan have used a description of an "encasing" rather than a cord attached to something? I will continue to believe that not only was it protection from the "taint" but an actual attachment to the Dark One and the True Power. This is now how Rand "see" dark friends and not some "mystical" power. Though not written as such, Nynaeve indicates something simple by acknowledging the "black spikes" attached to Rand.

 

Indeed. In The Shadow Rising Rand says after his battle with Asmo that he cut him off from the Dark One so his teacher would not be connected to him. Lanfear responds with an "I did not think that was possible." comment. I doubt from other comments though that most Darkfriends are so far gone down that path that the Dark One has a link to them. He can do strange things to channelers that don't work on regular people.

 

 

I found something interesting in Perrin's vision of Rand in the world of dreams. In TGS when Rand has his epiphany moment he was wearing his brown cloak, yet Perrin sees him before the black shell surrounds him dressed in a black jacket with red trim. Perrin also wonders about Rand's angular facial features. Given the space Brandon devoted to the visual description of Rand from Perrin's POV it seems likely it is significant.

 

Do you think this dreamworld reflection of Rand shows the effects of the link with Moridin? Is that link now broken, or being interfered with by the shield of light that is holding back the madness in Rand's mind? Is what Perrin saw significant in some other way?

[f3llyn]

I believe that most people incorrectly guessbat what the "thick black" cords attached to the forsaken are. Most people simply attribute it as a protection from the "taint". Would Jordan have used a description of an "encasing" rather than a cord attached to something? I will continue to believe that not only was it protection from the "taint" but an actual attachment to the Dark One and the True Power. This is now how Rand "see" dark friends and not some "mystical" power. Though not written as such, Nynaeve indicates something simple by acknowledging the "black spikes" attached to Rand.

 

Indeed. In The Shadow Rising Rand says after his battle with Asmo that he cut him off from the Dark One so his teacher would not be connected to him. Lanfear responds with an "I did not think that was possible." comment. I doubt from other comments though that most Darkfriends are so far gone down that path that the Dark One has a link to them. He can do strange things to channelers that don't work on regular people.

 

 

I found something interesting in Perrin's vision of Rand in the world of dreams. In TGS when Rand has his epiphany moment he was wearing his brown cloak, yet Perrin sees him before the black shell surrounds him dressed in a black jacket with red trim. Perrin also wonders about Rand's angular facial features. Given the space Brandon devoted to the visual description of Rand from Perrin's POV it seems likely it is significant.

 

Do you think this dreamworld reflection of Rand shows the effects of the link with Moridin? Is that link now broken, or being interfered with by the shield of light that is holding back the madness in Rand's mind? Is what Perrin saw significant in some other way?

More likely who he saw was a cross between Rand and Lews Therin similar to how Slayer is two people yet one at the same time. Or it's just TAR's interpretation of Rand.

 

And about the black cords. Several Forsaken have said that only the Nae Blis can use the true power, and that would be Moridin. The use of the true power was granted to Graendal in a limited extent as well. Not all Forsaken can use it. Lanfear for example did not have a black cord around her, not was it mentioned that Semirhage had anything like it as well.

 

Also Asmodean said it was his protection from the taint, too. He says without it he was as vulnerable as Rand to taint.

[grolm]

I believe that most people incorrectly guessbat what the "thick black" cords attached to the forsaken are. Most people simply attribute it as a protection from the "taint". Would Jordan have used a description of an "encasing" rather than a cord attached to something? I will continue to believe that not only was it protection from the "taint" but an actual attachment to the Dark One and the True Power. This is now how Rand "see" dark friends and not some "mystical" power. Though not written as such, Nynaeve indicates something simple by acknowledging the "black spikes" attached to Rand.

 

Indeed. In The Shadow Rising Rand says after his battle with Asmo that he cut him off from the Dark One so his teacher would not be connected to him. Lanfear responds with an "I did not think that was possible." comment. I doubt from other comments though that most Darkfriends are so far gone down that path that the Dark One has a link to them. He can do strange things to channelers that don't work on regular people.

 

 

I found something interesting in Perrin's vision of Rand in the world of dreams. In TGS when Rand has his epiphany moment he was wearing his brown cloak, yet Perrin sees him before the black shell surrounds him dressed in a black jacket with red trim. Perrin also wonders about Rand's angular facial features. Given the space Brandon devoted to the visual description of Rand from Perrin's POV it seems likely it is significant.

 

Do you think this dreamworld reflection of Rand shows the effects of the link with Moridin? Is that link now broken, or being interfered with by the shield of light that is holding back the madness in Rand's mind? Is what Perrin saw significant in some other way?

More likely who he saw was a cross between Rand and Lews Therin similar to how Slayer is two people yet one at the same time. Or it's just TAR's interpretation of Rand.

 

And about the black cords. Several Forsaken have said that only the Nae Blis can use the true power, and that would be Moridin. The use of the true power was granted to Graendal in a limited extent as well. Not all Forsaken can use it. Lanfear for example did not have a black cord around her, not was it mentioned that Semirhage had anything like it as well.

 

Also Asmodean said it was his protection from the taint, too. He says without it he was as vulnerable as Rand to taint.

 

Black chords only seemed to show up when Rand actively fought a Forsaken in TAR; we never see him do this with anyone but Ishy; he severs Asmos by guessing where they are and striking with an angreal enhanced blow.

 

I wonder if the colors of the coat don't indicate, not LTT, but something of the shadow. Moridin is wearing a black coat with red trim when Rand visits in TAR earlier in TGS, and aren't those also the colors of Taim's faction at the Black Tower? I don't think what Perrin saw was a reflection of LTT, as LTT is Rand and Rand is LTT. Also, the changes in physical appearance that show in Rand's face in the real world after his epiphany (Min notices wrinkles around the eyes and some other changes) don't match what Perrin saw.

[Calliro]

Maybe it's just that Rand's eye's have changed and because of that his expression/face?

 

And about Rand at Maradon (and not in particular saidar/saidin strenght):

The Asha'man Naeff - standing beside Bashere - gasped. "I've never seen so many weaves at once," he whispered. "I can't track them all. He's a storm. A storm of Light and streams of Power!"

(Page 502, A Storm of Light, Towers of Midnight)

This implies several things - or I think so at least.

-Rand is channeling Saidin (I fairly doubt he is using saidar and/or the True Power at the same time).

-Rand is channeling quick: Naeff doesn't mention great amounts of Saidin, but many weaves at once, so many he can't track them all.

Of course there may be some sort of trick be involved like hiding your real amount of Power (partly), but what about this:

Anyone who can channel usually has a greater degree of strength with at least one or two of the Powers, yet they may lack any particular ability at all with some of the others. For example, someone strong in Wind may be all but unable to weave Fire, or may be weak in Earth but equally strong in Spirit and Air. Some few rare individuals have been found to be very strong in as many as three, or in very rare cases four, of the Powers. But since the Age of Legends no one has had great strength in all five. Even then, such individuals were very rare.

- The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time

(quoted from the 13th depository)

Maybe Rand has got that "great strength in all five", since he and LTT are really one person now. It seems to me that he is in balance just because of LTT, but of both Rand and LTT: a long life presumably developed slowly, a short forced live; AoL, a 'dark age' (compared with AoL); etc. So what I'm trying to say is, that if my assumption is right, Rand's channeling ability might also not only be thanks to LTT, but both Rand and LTT.

 

However, any comments?

[Ltsegarra]

..it can't simply be just Saidin and LTT experience that is attributed to the level of channeling shown by Rand at that battle. In several passages, Jordan describes the Forsaken as being the eptimony of channelers, as some being "equal" in power and skill at channeling as LTT is. However in NO books in the Wheel of Time series have any forsaken come even close to what was being channeled by Rand. The closest was both fights with Ishmael simply because for some explicable reason Rand and Ishy appeared in the sky and the armies below were "linked", not for the amount of "weaves".

We must also remember Rand wasn't carrying any aids in channeling neither anrgeals nor Sanangreals. Rands is drawing on something more than Saidin and "experience". I would like to remind people that any knowledge we have of the "True Power" is given by people devoted to the Shadow. Much like all modern religions claiming theirs is the "True God" even though many of them share a lot of elements.

We cannot argue that Saidin/saidar equals "the light force" and the "True Power" equals the "dark force". Because both sides of the war have used both types of "magic". Furthermore, we as readers only know in general terms what the Dark One truly is, what his prisons is, and what the "true Power" means. Could it be that when LTT bored into the "prison" he simply was corrupted by unimaginable powers akin to Godhood?

I'm reminded about philosophies concerning the nature of duality and the arguments found in Star Wars: The Unifying Force. Things that are termed "good and bad" ultimately is subjective. In my perspective what Hitler did was "bad", in his perspective it was "good". I only bring this up cause I view the the "True Power" neutrally...up until it's put to use.

 

Anyway, back to Rand, it's my opinion that there is no living equal to Rand in shear power. If this is the case who can he fight? It's my firm belief that the dark one isn't a person or thing to be fought. Rand isn't simply going to be punching the dark one in the nose to win Tarmon Gaidan. Rand will either face an event that drives him over the "edge", be corrupted by the 13x13 compulsion(temporally), or fight another avatar of "evil" namely Taim or another.

..

[moratcorlm]

..it can't simply be just Saidin and LTT experience that is attributed to the level of channeling shown by Rand at that battle. In several passages, Jordan describes the Forsaken as being the eptimony of channelers, as some being "equal" in power and skill at channeling as LTT is. However in NO books in the Wheel of Time series have any forsaken come even close to what was being channeled by Rand. The closest was both fights with Ishmael simply because for some explicable reason Rand and Ishy appeared in the sky and the armies below were "linked", not for the amount of "weaves".

Rather irrelevant. In no situation to date have we seen the Forsaken attempting to destroy an entire non-channeling army.

We must also remember Rand wasn't carrying any aids in channeling neither anrgeals nor Sanangreals.

We do not in fact have any evidence one way or the other.

Rands is drawing on something more than Saidin and "experience".

We do not in fact have any evidence one way or the other.

I would like to remind people that any knowledge we have of the "True Power" is given by people devoted to the Shadow. Much like all modern religions claiming theirs is the "True God" even though many of them share a lot of elements.

And for good reason, since Shai'tan can directly control whether access to the True Power is granted, and there are strong contextual clues that the True Power is in fact the essence of Shai'tan. This is an entirely different situation than any type of real-world religion.

We cannot argue that Saidin/saidar equals "the light force" and the "True Power" equals the "dark force". Because both sides of the war have used both types of "magic".

Well, no. Nobody Shai'tan has not given permission to has ever wielded the True Power. At the point in the story when Rand was given it, he was under active attempts at subornation by the Shadow, orchestrated by Shai'tan, and giving him the True Power was a part of that.

Could it be that when LTT bored into the "prison" he simply was corrupted by unimaginable powers akin to Godhood?

Lews Therin did not create the Bore. Nor did he attain "unimaginable powers akin to Godhood."

[Ltsegarra]

@moratcorim. Once again I'm thinking one of us is misreading the description. If the Dark One is the only one that can give access to the true power how was it that Rand severed it from Asmodean. The "black cord" was written as if it was a direct line back to the Dark One, not a protective "taint" covering. Though this could have been an additional reason why the male channelers were protected.

I'm really not arguing that the True Power isn't tied to the Dark One, what I'm arguing is that it isn't ONLY that. I can remember only a few short passage where the True Power is discussed at length. I think Jordan was being intentionally vague, especially where the Forsaken are trying to explain it, because it's simply something that is not meant to be used my humanity. The only real indication in text that something is "bad" were the True Power is concerned is the "euphoria and the black, swirling in the eyes" that accompanies it's use. We're forced to use human terms and imagination to describe the True Source and True Power from the perspectives of characters.

Admitedly, after Rands amazing display he was upset that he used that amount of power and was somewhat forced into it, Rands fails to show the slightest weariness from Saidin use. At best Rand just shows regret. Substitute anyone else in text whether Nynaeve, Aes Sedai, or Forsaken...remember Forsaken are just as "old and experienced" as LTT, could any of them have pull it off? Perhaps, it was just Sanderson taking liberties to spice up the scenes. Honestly though, I feel that Sanderson has kept to the spirit and tone of Jordan's works and wouldnt have made such an error unintentionally.

Also, what give Rand the power to ferret out DarkFriends? It's not some simple weave or experience. It's something Intangible that occured during his "awakening". In fact, this scene was so important that Sanderson wrote it twice in two different books and two different perspectives. Or was it three?

[f3llyn]

@moratcorim. Once again I'm thinking one of us is misreading the description. If the Dark One is the only one that can give access to the true power how was it that Rand severed it from Asmodean. The "black cord" was written as if it was a direct line back to the Dark One, not a protective "taint" covering. Though this could have been an additional reason why the male channelers were protected.

I'm really not arguing that the True Power isn't tied to the Dark One, what I'm arguing is that it isn't ONLY that. I can remember only a few short passage where the True Power is discussed at length. I think Jordan was being intentionally vague, especially where the Forsaken are trying to explain it, because it's simply something that is not meant to be used my humanity. The only real indication in text that something is "bad" were the True Power is concerned is the "euphoria and the black, swirling in the eyes" that accompanies it's use. We're forced to use human terms and imagination to describe the True Source and True Power from the perspectives of characters.

Admitedly, after Rands amazing display he was upset that he used that amount of power and was somewhat forced into it, Rands fails to show the slightest weariness from Saidin use. At best Rand just shows regret. Substitute anyone else in text whether Nynaeve, Aes Sedai, or Forsaken...remember Forsaken are just as "old and experienced" as LTT, could any of them have pull it off? Perhaps, it was just Sanderson taking liberties to spice up the scenes. Honestly though, I feel that Sanderson has kept to the spirit and tone of Jordan's works and wouldnt have made such an error unintentionally.

Also, what give Rand the power to ferret out DarkFriends? It's not some simple weave or experience. It's something Intangible that occured during his "awakening". In fact, this scene was so important that Sanderson wrote it twice in two different books and two different perspectives. Or was it three?

You're reading it wrong. It's directly implied that the black cord is the link that gives the male Forsaken protection from the taint. It has absolutely nothing to do with the True Power and the two aren't ever mentioned in connection with each other so I'm curious where and how you drew that conclusion.

 

Moreover as I've said it a few times that it's mentioned by several different Forsaken that only Moridin has access to the True Power, and Graendal is granted it for a short time as well before she messed up with Perrin.

 

Also it's not the only indication that something is bad about it. It's described as very addicting and to use it is to, for example, create a gateway is to tear the pattern apart. Where with Saidar the pattern is folded and Saidin it's bored through(Rand and Egwene's descriptions of what they do to create gateways). In terms of addictiveness if Saidar/Saidin is caffeine then the True Power is heroin.

 

And yes, I suppose it was technically seen from 3 different perspectives. Egwene witnessed it but she had no idea what she was seeing and from much further away.

[moratcorlm]

Also, what give Rand the power to ferret out DarkFriends? It's not some simple weave or experience. It's something Intangible that occured during his "awakening". In fact, this scene was so important that Sanderson wrote it twice in two different books and two different perspectives. Or was it three?

f3llyn covered how you were wrong about the True Power, so I'll answer this. I don't actually disagree with you that Rand is connected to something beyond saidin.

 

Whether it's because he's now connected to the Creator, or whether it's just something the Wheel gives him now that he's accepted his Dragonhood, as an extension of his Fisher King and ta'veren attributes, I'm not sure, but there is definitely something more to him now than can be explained by channeling. His lack of fear of being shielded shows this; the response Darkfriends have to his presence shows it; the response of the local weather and apple trees and things shows it. But I just don't think there's anything conclusive about what was described (secondhand) in "A Storm of Light" in this respect. He might have been drawing on something beyond the One Power and what Lews Therin Telamon could have done, but he very well might not have. I don't think there's any way of saying whether or not Moridin, or perhaps Cyndane or Demandred, could have performed similar feats. That a couple of Asha'man who were trained for a couple of months in relatively simple weaves (by a Darkfriend who wouldn't share more if he knew it) are astonished at how effective he is at kicking ass does not necessarily imply anything more than that the strongest channeler of all time with the full knowledge of the Age of Legends and the War of Power fully integrated is in fact effective at slaughtering completely defenseless Trollocs.

[Terrapin]

I really don't know if there is something beyond the one power for the light side, but it would play into the whole balance concept. Moridin can be seen as the champion of evil while Rand is the champion of light, saidar to balance saiden, etc... I kind of view the Rand's new abilities of, an example is growing apples, as a counter of the dark ones power of destoying. The dark ones touch has caused plants and everything else to wither and Rand is now able to dissipate this effect and allow things to grow (creation). Maybe the reason so many apples appear in the orchard is that Rand's presence is bringing things back into balance and the pattern is forcing the trees to "catch up" as it where. When the forsaken describe how the true power forms a gateway, it seems to me as it is destroying a bit of the pattern. It at least appears to work counter to the pattern. This is why I view the true power as a force of destruction and by effect an extension of the dark one. I think there should be something to counter the destuctive nature of the true power and maybe this is what is giving Rand his new abilities. Speculative, but I don't really have anything else to go on till the next book. May play into the prophesy about the dragon being one with the land. Maybe being one with the land is some attribute of creation. Whatever Rand's new abilities are steeming from, they do appear to be in opposition to the dark one's touch.

 

I can't remember if this is correct, I would appreciate anyone confirming or setting me straight: Does Saiden/Saidor actually create? Does Saiden/Saidor take "elements" that are actually around and kind of amplify/gather them into the desired effect? or Does Saiden/Saidor create the desired effect, lets say fire, out of nothing?

 

I don't know what Rand's abilities are steeming from, but by analyzing the characteristics of Saiden/Saidor it may be possible to infer if they are the root of Rand's abilities. If these attributes don't fit then it would be safer to assume that there is some other power at work. Thanks

[FarShainMael]

AFAIK saidin and saidar do not create anything, they are the balanced parts of the One Power from the True Source. They are steered by channellers to get desired effects. They are neutral. They can be used in construction - witness the Power-forging of Perrin's hammer Mah'alleinir - or in destruction - winess balefire - but they don't, of themselves, bring anything new into the world.

 

The Dragon is one with the land. While Rand was deep in the DO's evil, his effect on things around him was entirely destructive. Now he is bringing back the sun. He has that Light in his brain, which (I think) is the direct touch of the Creator. Balance in all things.

[Barid Bel Medar]

AFAIK saidin and saidar do not create anything, they are the balanced parts of the One Power from the True Source. They are steered by channellers to get desired effects. They are neutral. They can be used in construction - witness the Power-forging of Perrin's hammer Mah'alleinir - or in destruction - winess balefire - but they don't, of themselves, bring anything new into the world.

 

The Dragon is one with the land. While Rand was deep in the DO's evil, his effect on things around him was entirely destructive. Now he is bringing back the sun. He has that Light in his brain, which (I think) is the direct touch of the Creator. Balance in all things.

 

I agree, whoever was saying saidin/saidar is the "Light Power" your wrong, it is neutral, which has been pointed out by RJ and others several times.

 

I also kinda agree with the Light in his brain being the creator. I think that it is some kind of essance of the creator, or some type of "Light" power, but I dont think that the Creator "gave" him it - as the DO actively gives permission for the True Power. RJ has said many times that the creator does not take direct action in the world, and I dont think s/he has done so in this instance, I believe that Rand "acquired" this "Light" due to his Dragon-ness, Taveren, Champion of Light or Fisher King status or all of the mentioned. I dont think the creator came down and wove a little shield of light around his brain, it was just his epiphany happened and his own nature and Taveren powers granted him access to this power.

 

PS: For all my "RJ has said" parts, look it up on the theoryland database if you dont know what im talking about, I am too tired to get them now, and they have been discussed to death in other topics.

[Terrapin]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, kind of tired when I wrote that bit. Saidin/saidar is neutral I agree on that and was thinking that when I wrote the last bit. I just assumed the context would get through.

 

Anyway, I am just wondering what the light web on Rand is. Didn't our favorite braid puller say something to the effect that it was foreign. (i.e, she wasn't certain what it was and at least not saidar, probably not saidan as she was involved in the cleansing and may have some incling of what it is). I just feel that the books have a continuous theme of balance and that whatever this new light web is coming from maybe in opposition of the true power. True power just seems to have a destructive/withering effect on the people that use it. I remember RJ saying that the creator doesn't directly effect the world, but this new thing came from somewhere. Maybe it has always been there we just haven't recongnized. THis grasping I know, but if the one power is neutral and true power is in deed an extension of the dark one, then it is possible that there is some other power as a balancing of the true power.

 

This is full of assumptions and I don't know if I'd really like a brand spankin new idea thrown at us in the last book. THere are already to many threads needing to be tied off. I also don't want to accept that rand is different in someway and you'll just have to take the word of Brandon that it fits into everything else.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Sorry if I wasn't clear, kind of tired when I wrote that bit. Saidin/saidar is neutral I agree on that and was thinking that when I wrote the last bit. I just assumed the context would get through.

 

Anyway, I am just wondering what the light web on Rand is. Didn't our favorite braid puller say something to the effect that it was foreign. (i.e, she wasn't certain what it was and at least not saidar, probably not saidan as she was involved in the cleansing and may have some incling of what it is). I just feel that the books have a continuous theme of balance and that whatever this new light web is coming from maybe in opposition of the true power. True power just seems to have a destructive/withering effect on the people that use it. I remember RJ saying that the creator doesn't directly effect the world, but this new thing came from somewhere. Maybe it has always been there we just haven't recongnized. THis grasping I know, but if the one power is neutral and true power is in deed an extension of the dark one, then it is possible that there is some other power as a balancing of the true power.

 

This is full of assumptions and I don't know if I'd really like a brand spankin new idea thrown at us in the last book. THere are already to many threads needing to be tied off. I also don't want to accept that rand is different in someway and you'll just have to take the word of Brandon that it fits into everything else.

 

 

Dw, I dont think i was referencing your post, it was a few pages back about the "Light power" being saidin/saidar. I understood your post.

 

And yeah, I agree, no-one can really come up with a credible theory because, as you say, its a brand new thing. There are no preciden(ces)(ts)? for this, so at this point any theory is credible.

 

For the record, I agree with yours. I think that this "Light Power" shall we say, has always been there, its just no-one has been able to actively access it because the creator does not throw it at people like the DO gives out access to the TP. I think that Rand's nature and his epiphany opened up access to this power, rather than the creator wooshed down to save him.

[Entreri]

Please let this not degenerate into a strength of channelers discussion. Eventually the mods step and ban those threads after everybody has gone round and round a few dozen times.

 

Agreed. While I'm still extremely frustrated that Entreri won't acknowledge several of the points I've made. Lol. This started with "How did Rand gain so much badassery?" and somehow went from that to "Lanfear is the bomb! No she's just an arrogant witch!" We really should get back on topic though. I just don't really know where to start.

 

 

I am not sure what points you are mentioning, I think I addressed them. I just showed why Lanfear is as strong as a woman can get.

 

 

Anyway, Lanfear will play a critical part in AMoL.

[FarShainMael]

'The Dragon is one with the land'.. This turned up in a dream Rand had of Thom, who said those words. But Thom also went on to say: 'and the land is one with the Dragon'. (TEOTW34). How does the state of the land affect Rand? Is this linked to Herid Fel's note that 'Belief and order give strength'?

[Ltsegarra]

@terrapin and others...the light points in Rands I took to mean the connections to his friends. I'm reminded of another scene where Rand himself(Or was it Min) recognizes that "Rand alone is a nest of stars being consumed by darkness", but when he's near his friends particular Perrin and Mat, but also Egwene and others " the nest of stars seemed to resist the darkness". This must have been book 2 or 3 and is inferred by Jordan's own insistence on expanding all the "main characters" story arcs.

I was merely arguing for the existence then of a light "True Power" to balance the True Power. Maybe, the light True Power is simply the power of friendship and sacrifice that resists the darkness.