Discuss The Forsaken

[Tom Sawyer]

I think that a Lanfear redemption would be so bad and completely ruin her character. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

Cadsuane really had the best summary of why the Forsaken are such a letdown while she was interrogating Semirhage. They're just depressingly human. Everyone's expecting some god-like beings of concentrated superevil, but they're really just a bunch of guys and girls who happen to be strong in the Power and went to the dark side. Also, they all suffer from the Evil Overlord complex which is really annoying when you see it again and again in a story.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Ishmael has done the most. Like Trolloc Wars, Breaking of the Covenant of nations, Seanchan, Fall of Artur Hawking war of 100 years... thats a lot

 

Setup stuff done in ancient history, stuff done offscreen, imparts no sense of dread. We have actually seen Ishamael do nothing, repeat nothing of any dreadful importance whatsoever.

 

Mesaana made rand hate aes sedai, locked his ass in a box which made him go insane, see mesaana fail or success thread.

 

All of which only made Rand stronger. And, it was the taint that messed with Rand's mind.

 

Semirhage... disapointed

 

Actually the only one we've ever seen do anything very evil. ( Cabriana Mecandes and her Warder, Domination Band incident ) She had potential to impart a sense of competence and dread to the Bad Guys.

 

Graendal has been awesome i think.

 

How exactly? Other than a totally cheesy escape from balefire has done nothing worthwhile.

 

Lanfear is sort of a loose cannon.

 

OK, so? So far, they're all lame. Halt, blind, deaf, dumb, and lame.

[Bob T Dwarf]

I think that a Lanfear redemption would be so bad and completely ruin her character. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

Cadsuane really had the best summary of why the Forsaken are such a letdown while she was interrogating Semirhage. They're just depressingly human. Everyone's expecting some god-like beings of concentrated superevil, but they're really just a bunch of guys and girls who happen to be strong in the Power and went to the dark side. Also, they all suffer from the Evil Overlord complex which is really annoying when you see it again and again in a story.

 

Yes it is.

 

Which is why WOT is proving to be a disappointment. It started well, demonstrating great potential to be something fresh in the fantasy genre. It has descended into the same stock, formulaic, fantasy cliches. Cliche heroes. Cliche villains.

 

True BAD GUYS don't do things that only build up the Good Guys. True BAD GUYS don't have a need to explain themselves or to seek understanding. They just kill folks and blow stuff up and enact their nefarious schemes subjugating their opposition or just wiping it out as necessary.

 

True BAD GUYS with demigod powers would not mess around. They'd just blow people away until there was nobody left with the wherewithal to oppose them.

 

Unfortunately, like you say, WOT is stuck with the same old Evil Overlords.

 

Flash Gordon and Ming the Merciless anyone?

[JDJ]

I think that a Lanfear redemption would be so bad and completely ruin her character. I hope it doesn't happen.

 

Cadsuane really had the best summary of why the Forsaken are such a letdown while she was interrogating Semirhage. They're just depressingly human. Everyone's expecting some god-like beings of concentrated superevil, but they're really just a bunch of guys and girls who happen to be strong in the Power and went to the dark side. Also, they all suffer from the Evil Overlord complex which is really annoying when you see it again and again in a story.

 

I don't think it would be redemption on her part. More like picking a team she has a better shot at getting what she wants.

 

She sees that currently there is likely no hope for her to take power... but if she can use Rand to get herself free, perhaps she feels she can further use him to gain the power she wants. She will help Rand in some important manner - whether willingly (to gain the advantage) or forced to do so, especially given her knowledge of the bore. Furthermore, I truly believe that Lanfear will be with Rand and Nyn using Callandor.

[Astus]

I was hoping to see Moghdien's (formerly Liandrin's) cronies pop up again. It's been what? 8 books since she sent them away? I know it has been postulated that they were behind Masema's continued degradation but it would be nice to actually see them appear in some capacity. The final curtain is about to be drawn.

[Sharaman]

I was hoping to see Moghdien's (formerly Liandrin's) cronies pop up again. It's been what? 8 books since she sent them away? I know it has been postulated that they were behind Masema's continued degradation but it would be nice to actually see them appear in some capacity. The final curtain is about to be drawn.

The survivors may be with the Borderlanders.

Or they may be hiding out in the BT - if the 13x13 was happening, you'd likely need BA there.

[Lyri]

Perhaps someone can help me here. The recent timeline has been confusing for me and I am trying to figure out whether or not it is possible that Demandred could be in Seanchan gathering forces. The flavor of that whole empire, for me, has a very forsaken/shadowsworn feeling to it. The abject groveling, the slaves, the unbridled ambition and behind the scenes maneuvering of the nobility, heck even the ravens are associated with the Shadow. It just seems like the perfect playground for an enterprising forsaken. I don't see why Demandred would be mucking around in Murandy when the Ever Victorious Army is there for the taking. *Somebody* assassinated the old Empress-who-did-not-in-fact-live-forever and the rest of the royal family save Tuon. If I were Demo, I'd say screw Murandy. I'd put Semi in charge of aiming the Corenne at disrupting the Dragon's ability to meld the nations into a cohesive defense while I scooped up the bulk of the Seanchan empire and prepared to gate them to the LB.

 

So, can anyone point me in the direction of a timeline that could help me or a discussion of this idea that I have missed?

[Tom Sawyer]

I was hoping to see Moghdien's (formerly Liandrin's) cronies pop up again. It's been what? 8 books since she sent them away? I know it has been postulated that they were behind Masema's continued degradation but it would be nice to actually see them appear in some capacity. The final curtain is about to be drawn.

 

Weren't they all in Camelyn at the end of KoD? They're the ones who kidnapped Elayne. I think they're all dead now.

 

Edit - This does get right back to the problem of having too many Forsaken and expands it to too many bad guys in general. You have to give them something to do and there's just not enough for them all to do.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The general modus operandi for the Forsakaen is that each staked out an area of operation and there was no overlap.

 

Asmodean was supposed to handle the Aiel.

Lanfear was supposed to handle the Dragon Reborn.

Bel'al took Tear.

Rahvin took Andor.

Sammael took Illian.

Mesaana took the White Tower.

Graendal took Arad Domon. She also totally neutralized Shara.

Moghedien took Intelligence, a roaming portfolio.

 

 

After their initial failures, Aginor ended up at the Black Tower and Balthamel at the Rebel While Tower.

 

Semirhage's area of responsibility was the Seanchan. Both the Return and the Homeland.

Ishamael was in charge of overall strategy. He seems to be centered in the Blight.

 

What Demadred chose is still unknown. After Lanfear's excursion into Finnland, he added Rand ( with help from Aginor/Osan'gar/Dashiva ) to his other responsibilities.

 

In short, Demandred already has WAY too much on his plate. He can't do those things and hang out in Seanchan or Shara yet too.

[1eejit]

 

Graendal has been awesome i think.

 

How exactly? Other than a totally cheesy escape from balefire has done nothing worthwhile.

 

She removed Arad Doman from the picture entirely via behind-the-scenes manipulation. It's still looking doubtful that they'll have any significant presence during TGD.

 

Sammael didn't get eaten by mashadar. Recall the meeting with the 11 thrones? He survived.

 

Also, Sammael was cited for leading the trollocs through the ways. He gets credit for attacking Rand at the farmhouse with 100k shadowspawn.

 

Sammael and Demanderad are the generals among the forsaken. They led the armies in the age of legends, and lead them now. Who else has been out of contact for a while, yet hundreds of thousands of trollocs have been guided through the ways - even lately to attack Caemlyn?

 

No, Sammael has been confirmed as dead for quite a while.

 

No, he has not. In fact, he was specifically cited by the others of the forsaken for leading the trollocs through the ways, as I have written. Read more carefully. Did you miss the scene I described in which the forsaken met?

 

I am 100% sure that RJ said in an interview that Sammael was toast.

Sammael escaped to T'A'R at the last second before being engulfed by Mashadar. Once there he was accidentally turned to toasted bread by a dreaming Basel Gill on a split-second appearance in the world of dreams. However since then Sammael was found by Moridin and reverted to a non-delicious form.

[Ahaz Flagg]

Wow, So much hate for the forsaken. I have no issue with them, we are not meant to know all they have done. Little glimpse's is all we have had, to suggest that is all they did is nuts. The story is not about the forsaken, the story is about some friends from the two rivers.

 

As was pointed out a few times in this thread,the forsaken are people it has been pointed out many times in the books, by many people.

 

I really have enjoyed them all in their own ways, they all fell for the same thing imho, they came from an age that was so far above they all forgot that low tech does not mean stupid.

 

 

Anyways,the beauty of books is we can all see it differant, Mordeth is my favorite bad guy in the book anyway, far more dangerous to Rand then anyone else has been. I am damn sure not disappointed about how the books have turned out, next year when the last one is out and read, I will have that real sad feeling that it is done. That is the mark of a great story to me, in this RJ and BS have done a great job.

[Mr. Micawber]

By the way, this book - and a few other passages earlier in the series - give some truly amazing examples of what the Forsaken are supposed to be, as opposed to how poorly they've been used since the beginning of the series:

 

"But it is not enough. You humbled me in the Hall of Servants. You defeated me at the Gates of Paaran Disen. But I am the greater, now. I will not let you die without knowing that. When you die, your last thought will be the full knowledge of your defeat, of how complete and utter it is."

 

"Do you think that you are my equal, little sister?" Moghedien grimaced in disgust. "Did you stand in the Pit of Doom to dedicate your soul to the Great Lord? Did you taste the sweetness of victory at Paaran Disen, or the bitter ashes at the Asar Don?"

 

"Are you still so jealous of me, Tel Janin? When did I ever slight you, or give you one finger less than your due?"

 

"Sammael. I remember when he was first named Destroyer of Hope. After he betrayed the Gates of Hevan, and carried the shadow down into the Rorn M'doi and the heart of Satelle. Hope did seem to die that day. Culan Cuhan wept"

 

"Take this message back to Sammael. Every death he has caused since waking, I lay at his feet and call due. Every murder he has ever done or caused, I lay at his feet and call due. He escaped justice in the Rorn M’doi, and at Nol Caimaine, and Sohadra . . . " More of Lews Therin’s memories, but the pain of what had been done there, the agony of what Lews Therin’s eyes had seen, burned across the Void as if Rand’s. " . . . But I will see justice done now. Tell him, no truce with the Forsaken. No truce with the Shadow."

 

And of course, now

"She was a clerk," Rand said. "During the Age of Legends. Demandred, when he came for me after the founding of the Eighty and One...She fell in the fighting, lightning from the sky...Her blood on my hands...How do you know that name!"

 

These passages give us a glimpse of why they're not just *ordinary folks* with lots of Power who went evil.

 

They were the Enemy. And they got wasted.

[Cazajay]

Is Alviarin now one of the Chosen after she was marked by Shaidar Haran?

That means she can command Shadowspawn using her mark. Perhaps it was her and not Sammael who sent trollocs into the ways.

[Cazajay]

Cyndane/Lanfear dream/vision this is a dilema for Rand as some fans reckon it's a trap that she has been given the task of making Rand emotionally broken, when Greandal failed.

I'm not so sure, Lanfear created the Bore there is a chance she was forced to the shadow perhaps this vision of her tortured soul is real.

[griz]

Cyndane/Lanfear dream/vision this is a dilema for Rand as some fans reckon it's a trap that she has been given the task of making Rand emotionally broken, when Greandal failed.

I'm not so sure, Lanfear created the Bore there is a chance she was forced to the shadow perhaps this vision of her tortured soul is real.

 

 

I'm thinking Lanfear has a larger part to play. Why mention her at all. Maybe she will turn back and offer a way to seal it since she helped in opening the bore.

[AuldGoldBeard]

Re: Lanfear's redemption.

 

I don't see it happening. In the Epilogue, when Shaidar Haran comes for Graendal, she says, "I have a better plan, more bold. You will be impressed. Al'Thor thinks I am dead, and so I can--"...

"No," SH continued. "This opportunity has been given to another."

 

Ten pages later, we see Lanfear invading Rand's dreams. I take that to mean that she was the one given the "opportunity," which is, obviously, the chance to kill Rand.

[Cazajay]

Re: Lanfear's redemption.

 

I don't see it happening. In the Epilogue, when Shaidar Haran comes for Graendal, she says, "I have a better plan, more bold. You will be impressed. Al'Thor thinks I am dead, and so I can--"...

"No," SH continued. "This opportunity has been given to another."

 

Ten pages later, we see Lanfear invading Rand's dreams. I take that to mean that she was the one given the "opportunity," which is, obviously, the chance to kill Rand.

 

Not obvious at all there are other FS still out there equally able to get the job. Demandred for one however Moridin is the one who claims he gets to fight Rand in the LB.

 

Lanfear/Cyndane and Moghedien are Mindtrapped perhaps it has something to do with the proximity of part of their trap to the DO who is getting stronger as the seals weaken further.

[rane008]

Gonna throw this out there, so what do you guys think?

 

I think that Lanfear is the Female Dragon. With all of the focus on balance between light and dark, saidin and saidar, men and women in general, I think that it's very suspicious that the Dragon is ALWAYS male. It just seems to me that RJ would have had the foresight to make this right thematically. It also makes me think about the "3 become 1" thing. Could Meirin be one of those that help Rand use Callendor? Better yet, could help be better put as "help"? It's looking more like the sword is more of a bad thing.

 

Discuss.

[MatthewWallace]

Question from Jonan: Mr. Jordan, is it possible that in another age, another turning of the wheel, that Saidar could be tainted instead of Saidin? This relates to the Female Dragon Theory.

 

Robert Jordan: That is not something I intend to explore.

 

from CNN Chat

[Guest bchez]

So we know how The Snakes and Foxes are sneaky...suppose one of Lanfear's wishes was to get the love of Lews Therin back - perhaps poorly worded....suppose their plan to do that was to return her to her former self...since that is who heloved? I dunno - just a thought.

 

Umm, so that was my first post here. Hi there~!

[decrepid dragon]

By the way, this book - and a few other passages earlier in the series - give some truly amazing examples of what the Forsaken are supposed to be, as opposed to how poorly they've been used since the beginning of the series:

 

"But it is not enough. You humbled me in the Hall of Servants. You defeated me at the Gates of Paaran Disen. But I am the greater, now. I will not let you die without knowing that. When you die, your last thought will be the full knowledge of your defeat, of how complete and utter it is."

 

"Do you think that you are my equal, little sister?" Moghedien grimaced in disgust. "Did you stand in the Pit of Doom to dedicate your soul to the Great Lord? Did you taste the sweetness of victory at Paaran Disen, or the bitter ashes at the Asar Don?"

 

"Are you still so jealous of me, Tel Janin? When did I ever slight you, or give you one finger less than your due?"

 

"Sammael. I remember when he was first named Destroyer of Hope. After he betrayed the Gates of Hevan, and carried the shadow down into the Rorn M'doi and the heart of Satelle. Hope did seem to die that day. Culan Cuhan wept"

 

"Take this message back to Sammael. Every death he has caused since waking, I lay at his feet and call due. Every murder he has ever done or caused, I lay at his feet and call due. He escaped justice in the Rorn M’doi, and at Nol Caimaine, and Sohadra . . . " More of Lews Therin’s memories, but the pain of what had been done there, the agony of what Lews Therin’s eyes had seen, burned across the Void as if Rand’s. " . . . But I will see justice done now. Tell him, no truce with the Forsaken. No truce with the Shadow."

 

And of course, now

"She was a clerk," Rand said. "During the Age of Legends. Demandred, when he came for me after the founding of the Eighty and One...She fell in the fighting, lightning from the sky...Her blood on my hands...How do you know that name!"

 

These passages give us a glimpse of why they're not just *ordinary folks* with lots of Power who went evil.

 

They were the Enemy. And they got wasted.

 

Course they got wasted. Pretty sure there were close to 100 people that were counted as forsaken in AoL before most of them got rolled. If at the end of book 1 it said: "and Belthamel killed the nym easily, and Aginor destroyed Rand althor and the rest of his party. The world descended into darkness, and all things were unmade. THE END." It would suck.

 

So much hate against forsaken, but am I the only one that thinks that taking over a kingdom isn't exactly useless? If I could just waltz up to the british cabinet and get them to make me the king of England I would hardly be deemed as dissapointing. Tens of thousands of soldiers were killed by the armies on either side, and it delayed the world from uniting.

 

But if you ask me apart from Moridin, and maybe Damandred if he achieves something good, the forsaken are a distraction, a big 'look at me' sign while the dark one works his tricky ways in the background. Maybe the forsaken themselves got their followers to spread the rumours of their power so they could feel more self important, helped a little bit by Ishmael to further the DO dark purpose. DO obviously doesn't care for them that much as he sent Moridin to HELP kill Sammael. Like Verin said the forsaken are predictable (Ishmael excluded), but the dark one himself is anything but. And Shaidar Harrin has pretty much shown that even tiny manifestations of the DO power are so far beyond what the forsaken can hope to be. In the end the DO is the big cheese of evil, where as the forsaken aren't mentioned anywhere in the prophesies, IMHO they have done well for overglorified darkfriends.

 

EDIT: changed wording a little

[dwn]

So we know how The Snakes and Foxes are sneaky...suppose one of Lanfear's wishes was to get the love of Lews Therin back - perhaps poorly worded....suppose their plan to do that was to return her to her former self...since that is who heloved? I dunno - just a thought.

 

Umm, so that was my first post here. Hi there~!

 

I speculated on that somewhere in one of the other threads. "I want Lews Therin to love me again" is definitely the sort of thing that Lanfear might wish for. I also wonder if her new body is a snarky fulfilment of that (or another) wish, rather than a transmigration by the DO.

 

Thinking over it, Lanfear never failed as dramatically as Moghedion or Graendal; Moghedion betrayed the Shadow almost as badly as Asmodean did, and Graendal was involved in the loss of three Chosen. Yet there must be a reason why Moridin had her mindtrapped. After all, Aginor and Balthamel certainly failed, yet they were never bound like that. Either Moridin considers Lanfear's failure to be nearly as damning as Moghedion's or Graendal's, or he has some reason not to trust her allegiance. It could also be her punishment for making him fetch her from *Finnland.

 

Now, I don't think Cyndane's become the bearer of bunnies and cupcakes--her POVs in WH prove otherwise--yet her fall in stature (in many ways) might have made her start to question herself. Graendal's POV described the first painful steps of turning to the Shadow; a true redemption would likely be just as arduous.

 

With that in mind, it's possible that Rand's dream is both a trap and the truth. If Mierin has taken the first steps of turning from the Shadow, Moridin likely knows it, and her authenticity would make her even better bait for Rand.

 

-- dwn

[thebeastwithin]

Like others have said, the reason the Forsaken aren't that great is because RJ refuses to let any characters get killed. I'm not saying this series should be like George RR Martin books or anything, but come on, it's the LAST BATTLE! The Dark One is escaping, Trollocs, Myddraal, Forsaken, etc. are everywhere and not one single character dies as the result of this? Does that make any sense?

 

It would have been perfect for Gawyn to die defending Egwene: he'd have a heroic and emotional death and we'd get a lot of very interesting character development from Egwene about it. The whole sequence is indicative of how any real sense of danger has been stripped from this series. I doubt anybody was really thinking that he wouldn't make it.

 

I remember that WoT Guide book that came out gives character details about the Forsaken and says they were the most powerful of the channelers who went to the Dark One. Since that book wasn't part of an in-universe mythology, we can trust that they weren't just average people, but pretty much some of the best the AoL had.

 

I love this series but outside of Ish the Forsaken are a huge disappointment. They really were just plot devices to let Rand fight someone supposedly tough at the climax of each book. You can only have these people bumble along for so long before they lose any mystique they had or fear they inspired.

[Guest Squall Thrawn]

Sorry if I'm doing this incorrectly, it's my first time posting at Dragonmount. Also, sorry for the length. But I had a theory on the recent Forsaken killings, and how I think the rest of them are going to go. Needless to say, there are massive spoilers in here up to ToM.

 

In the beginning, it seemed to me that the deaths of the Forsaken felt like milestones on Rand's journey to become the Dragon Reborn. Of course there were 13 of the buggers, and it's hard to really personalize the battles. They're one of the leaders of the Dark One's forces, they have a little backstory, then they get slaughtered when Rand takes a step further towards his destiny. And the herd got thinned out. And what was left, was the ones who would act as almost a counterpoint to our main characters. Very telling was ToM's description of Mesaana as the Shadow Amyrlin. She was, from the time that Egwene was lined up to be the new Amyrlin, very obviously going to be Egwene's nemesis. And it made me wonder. Who else matches up so well? What follows is my thoughts on that matter. I'll be taking it from TGS on to my thoughts on AMoL.

 

As the of the beginning of TGS, the ones who are left are Demandred, Graendal, Moridin (formerly Ishamael), Cyndane (formerly Lanfear), Mesaana, Moghedien, and Semirhage. Man, for cannon fodder, there seem to be an awful lot left at this stage in the game. Then they start dropping.

 

Semirhage, I might argue, was defeated by Cadsuane Melaidhrin. True, she was not alone in the initial capture, and Rand did zap her with balefire. But Cadsuane and her ornaments were able to detect the illusion, Cadsuane and her insights were what started breaking Semirhage. If Semirhage had been in her right mind, she would've put the Domination Band on Rand, then left. But no, her need for torturing her former captors led her to pushing Rand so far that, in desperation, he channeled the True Power.

 

Graendal was the big manipulator, who liked subtle and convoluted schemes. And she was given the smackdown by Rand, who went for brute force and nearly balefired her to oblivion. Then she tried to be tricky with Perrin, who could be argued is the antithesis of Graendal. She's the trickster who expects others to be just as tricky. Whereas Perrin is an honest, and forthright, and unexpectedly manipulative because of that. Though as a sidenote, I think Perrin's ultimate battle will prove to be Slayer, the creature who, of all the characters in the books, could be called the Shadow's version of Perrin. No surprise there.

 

As I mentioned earlier, Mesaana was called the Shadow Amyrlin by Saerin, and as such was Egwene's Shadow counterpart. Especially as Mesaana broke the Tower, and Egwene tried her hardest to mend it. And succeeded.

 

All of that recap was to show that while some characters have defeated their Shadow Counterparts, others haven't.

 

Moghedien's the only one I can't pin down definitely, but I had to guess, I'd say that Nynaeve will be the one to finish her off, being the one who's defeated her twice. It was Moghedien's presence that helped Nynaeve along on her journey, and Moghedien's use of balefire that brought about Nynaeve's breaking of her block. Won't it be hilarious when Moghedien taunts her for having to be angry to channel, then Nynaeve zaps her dead?

 

Demandred, on the other hand, seems to be primed to be Rand's nemesis. Jealous of Lews Therin, leading general... I believe that he's actually more like Mat's Shadow counterpart. Demandred was born soon after Lews Therin (a day off, IIRC) and was perpetually living in LTT's shadow. Mat was from the same place as Rand, and in TGH, acted quite jealous that Rand was acting like a lord. He'd never admit it, as he hates lords, but he still seemed envious of Rand's position. Also, if anybody would be appointed Field Marshal of the Forces of Light, it would be Mat. This would not be Mat's first time killing off somebody who at one time wanted to best Rand and replace him; he killed Couladin after all. Demandred doesn't seem to have ties to any one place, and Mat's made it a point to keep a fair amount of autonomy. The kicker, for me, is the fact that Demandred has made it clear that he considers himself the equal or better of LTT/Rand. And he would expect that that's who he's meant to fight. To use an Angel S5 reference (and spoilers!) Lindsey McDonald was quite surprised to be shot by one of Angel's flunkies, not killed by Angel. Also... I think Mat would be a superior general to Demandred; he's got the memories of dozens of generals, after all.

 

Cyndane, aka Lanfear... I'm personally of the opinion that she's playing another trick, making Rand believe that she's not who she once was. There are two possibilities for her. One is Moiraine. It would be symmetry, after all. Their first battle, Lanfear was much stronger than Moiraine, and was only defeated by a little bit of trickery. I don't think she expected to be pushed into the doorframe ter'angreal, after all. Now, post resurrection, She's weaker than she was, while Moiraine, with her angreal, is stronger than she was. I'd call that a proper fight. Or if we go with the new gfs/ ex gf scenario, some combination of Aviendha, Elayne, and Min would get rid of her. The three women that made sure that Rand would never love Lanfear again, might well be the ones to remove her out of his life for good.

 

And, of course, Moridin. The Nae'blis himself, could only fight against the Dragon Reborn. Though if what hurts one, hurts the other, I'm suddenly imagining a pillow fight. Or Rand figures out how to untangle them, somehow, then the smackdown can commence.

 

And Shaidar Haran is a lot like the Mouth of Sauron. Full of the Dark One's power, but not him. And it's already been said that the way the Dark One is waging this war in a different way than Rand expects, so that battle will likely be some metaphysical battle, or a battle of the minds... or the Dark One brings in Agent Smith or something.

 

Just my two cents. Sorry if I rambled, and sorry if it's too long. Tell me if I should move it or remove it, and I will.

[Astus]

I was hoping to see Moghdien's (formerly Liandrin's) cronies pop up again. It's been what? 8 books since she sent them away? I know it has been postulated that they were behind Masema's continued degradation but it would be nice to actually see them appear in some capacity. The final curtain is about to be drawn.

 

Weren't they all in Camelyn at the end of KoD? They're the ones who kidnapped Elayne. I think they're all dead now.

Nope, they were a bunch of BA from that same group of 13. I don't think they all died. Falion and Marillin got away with Shiane and Mellar. (I don't if I'm missing anyone).

I'm referring to Jeaine, Rianna and Berylla. None of which have been seen since TFOH.