What is the Big Unnoticed Thing? (spoilers)

[Zefram]

By "Big Unnoticed thing" you mean as revealed in this book -ToM or just mentioned and will be revealed in MoL.

 

If second, I'd say those weird letters everyone been getting with red seals - Alanna, Rand from Tiana, Galad.

[thebrumble]

Brandon never said we hadn't discussed it or wondered about. Just that he hadn't seen any discussion on it. Since he is not omnipresent, I think we can forgive the lapse.

 

Well, that's certainly true. I just didn't think it was obscure as Vin's earring in Mistborn. That was something that there was pretty much no way for you to even realize its true purpose... it was just an ordinary object from the beginning. Mat's spear was given to him in such a weird way, well... you know.

 

Vin's earring was VERY predictable for me. I always did wonder about mats weapon...but never really thought it was the key out.

 

+1 on this post. My thoughts exactly

[Razor]

The red veiled Aiel appeared significant as well. If they are the Aiel channelers that went to the blight, their may be more dreadlords than we could possibly imagine.

[ghoullio]

I also felt that Mat's device cheapened Farstrider's death. I know it had to happen, I get it and everything, but as soon as it happened that was the first thougt that popped into my head.

[Lironah]

I just didn't think it was obscure as Vin's earring in Mistborn. That was something that there was pretty much no way for you to even realize its true purpose... it was just an ordinary object from the beginning. Mat's spear was given to him in such a weird way, well... you know.

 

Uh...I got the earring thing pretty much at the beginning of book 3. At least, that there was something going on with it. Sure, its full power wasn't apparent until nearly the end, but there were hints about it as early as the first book, and actual clues in several places in book 2.

 

I'd rate the Ashandarei as the more obscure, though neither came completely out of the blue.

[Apocalyte]

Call me a sap but I thought it was Moraine and Tom getting sweet on each other over the series, culminating in the marriage proposal.

[Shard]

Its use was really isolated, and in that way it was less impressive than the reveal of Asmo's killer (I mean in Moridin's and SH's chats with Graendal, not that folly in the glossary). But Asmo was already dead and knowing who did it changes nothing, whereas allowing Mat to escape 'finnland was very important indeed. I'm actually quite surprised at the way it was revealed. It seemed that Mat really took his time with that revelation (I mean, once he started thinking in the right direction, it became obvious which way this is going to go. Not that I had any inkling what the Ashandarei was all about before that). For me, it lessened the worth of Noal's sacrifice.

 

I disagree with that, Mat needed time to think and also to reach the Aelfinn Bond room.

[Dams1986]

Ok so I'm a bit confused by all the people who are saying that the big unnoticed thing was obscure and not especially exciting to read about. Considering that without it (and without Mat realising it) Mat would have been trapped in the ToG with Moiraine and Thom and they'd all be dead, I'm not sure how anyone could judge that obscure and not exciting. Without the ashanderei, we wouldn't be happily anticipating tMoL where we will find out what Moiraine wished for from the Finns and we will see Mat blowing the horn of valere at the Last Battle. I think all in all that we owe the ashanderei rather a lot! Just my two cents...

[yoniy0]

Its use was really isolated, and in that way it was less impressive than the reveal of Asmo's killer (I mean in Moridin's and SH's chats with Graendal, not that folly in the glossary). But Asmo was already dead and knowing who did it changes nothing, whereas allowing Mat to escape 'finnland was very important indeed. I'm actually quite surprised at the way it was revealed. It seemed that Mat really took his time with that revelation (I mean, once he started thinking in the right direction, it became obvious which way this is going to go. Not that I had any inkling what the Ashandarei was all about before that). For me, it lessened the worth of Noal's sacrifice.

I disagree with that, Mat needed time to think and also to reach the Aelfinn Bond room.

I'm not sure I see which part of my comment you take issue with. Is it the lengthy revelation (in which case I just think the way it was written should have been streamlined - it makes me feel like RJ's explaining something to a particularly dense child) or Noal's sacrifice being cheapened (I can concede this point, since Mat had to be put on the spot before he would consider alternative escape routes)?

[Jagen Sedai]

I think the revelation on Mat's ashanderei was really darn good. And it made complete sense if you think about it.

 

Many, many times Mat has said that the Aelfinn and Eelfinn seemed to know the future, that they knew he would return, and that they seemed to know what was going to happen. I didn't get the point of all that rambling until after he got out. Mat asked for a way out, and the Eelfinn obviously knew the future of what was going to happen--that a man would come and scoop up Lanfear, destroying the only doorway ter'angreal back out, yet also that Mat would come back. So Mat needed another way out if both doorways were destroyed the second time around.

 

As for knocking Mat out the first time and hanging him, giving him that scar? It was the price for the ashanderei, of course. And for the ashanderei being the BUT,.... well it certainly went unnoticed for me, but then again, I've missed many things that have become obvious to other readers.

 

Well, those are my thoughts :) Best bloody chapter in the book.

[Manetheren Lord]

Is that it, seriously? Brandon said THAT is bigger than the identity of Asmodeans killer?

 

No offense, but I want some of what he was smoking.

 

How is the identity of Asmo's killer a big unnoticed thing? Some of us have known for a long time

[a5m]

I also felt that Mat's device cheapened Farstrider's death. I know it had to happen, I get it and everything, but as soon as it happened that was the first thougt that popped into my head.

 

Farstrider needed to die to allow him to leave a message with Mat. A lot of people are writing off Lan but Mat needs to give a message to him. To me, that means the cavalry with arrive in time.

[yoniy0]

How is the identity of Asmo's killer a big unnoticed thing? Some of us have known for a long time

Brandon said that the BUT was more intriguing to him than the identity of Asmodean's killer. Apparently, not everyone thinks so.

[Dams1986]

My bigger beef isn't with the fact that Brandon thought it was interesting (I definitely agree) but that he couldn't specify whether it was book 4/5/6 that it started. Any real fan of the series would immediately be able to unhesitatingly answer that the ashanderei was first mentioned in book 4. C'mon Brandon!!!

[Terez]

My bigger beef isn't with the fact that Brandon thought it was interesting (I definitely agree) but that he couldn't specify whether it was book 4/5/6 that it started. Any real fan of the series would immediately be able to unhesitatingly answer that the ashanderei was first mentioned in book 4. C'mon Brandon!!!

Wouldn't, not couldn't. He didn't want to narrow it down too much.

[Shard]

Its use was really isolated, and in that way it was less impressive than the reveal of Asmo's killer (I mean in Moridin's and SH's chats with Graendal, not that folly in the glossary). But Asmo was already dead and knowing who did it changes nothing, whereas allowing Mat to escape 'finnland was very important indeed. I'm actually quite surprised at the way it was revealed. It seemed that Mat really took his time with that revelation (I mean, once he started thinking in the right direction, it became obvious which way this is going to go. Not that I had any inkling what the Ashandarei was all about before that). For me, it lessened the worth of Noal's sacrifice.

I disagree with that, Mat needed time to think and also to reach the Aelfinn Bond room.

I'm not sure I see which part of my comment you take issue with. Is it the lengthy revelation (in which case I just think the way it was written should have been streamlined - it makes me feel like RJ's explaining something to a particularly dense child) or Noal's sacrifice being cheapened (I can concede this point, since Mat had to be put on the spot before he would consider alternative escape routes)?

 

The whole Noal's sacrifice is cheapened is what I was disagreeing with. I agree with the first part, knowing who killed Asmo changes nothing.

[Cazajay]

My bigger beef isn't with the fact that Brandon thought it was interesting (I definitely agree) but that he couldn't specify whether it was book 4/5/6 that it started. Any real fan of the series would immediately be able to unhesitatingly answer that the ashanderei was first mentioned in book 4. C'mon Brandon!!!

 

Wouldn't, not couldn't. He didn't want to narrow it down too much.

 

 

 

 

Iv had another look at the Topic in Structured Wheel of Time discussions and there is a part that states they can rule out theories based on Peter and Brandon saying No one had gotten the BUT or even touched near it up to post 137. This included anything to do with the Finns and phrophecies etc

 

Are we really certain Mat's weapon was the BUT?

[Terez]

Read my TOM no-spoiler review for clarification on that.

[Jagen Sedai]

Forgive my ignorance, who is Peter? o.0

[yoniy0]

Forgive my ignorance, who is Peter? o.0

Peter Ahlstrom is Brandon's assistant.

[didymos]

IMO it was bigger than Asmodean. But I never cared about Asmodean either. I thought it was cool, but in some ways it still doesn't make sense to me. Mat said he wanted to be away from them, but he didn't use the ashandarei to get away from them in Rhuidean. So it's like they granted that particular request twice.

 

Who knows? Maybe the 'Finn can't leave their realms for Randland at all, even through the doorway ter'angreal, and they actually had to use the thing to make a door that allowed them to then toss it into the branches with one end of the rope, followed shortly by Mat and the other end.

[TheAngryDruid]

Wow, while allowing Mat to escape is certainly big, especially since Rand needs Moiraine to win, I was kind of underwhelmed.

 

I thought the scope of the big, unnoticed thing would be grander and affect a wider range of things more directly. Still, in a way, it does.

 

Last, what was the small, unnoticed thing from Book 3 in the reviews? The eyes in T'A'R?

[Cyf]

I think the fact that Mat's been fighting with the spear for this long and very few talked about it counts. I recall a few conversations here or there, but not so much. And it being the way he rescues Moiraine? Pretty big.

 

SUT seems to be Noam. People didn't really discuss him after the fact.

[theradave]

Any thoughts on the Red Aiel being the BUT? We know that male Aiel channelers have been entering the Blight for a long time. Has the Shadow been collecting and turning these men to start a DF Aiel society?

 

I dunno. Maybe?

[bronnt]

To those who feel like Noal's sacrifice was a bit cheap, I agree. I can understand why it happened, but the first thing that occurred to me, as well, was that Noal only died so that Mat could have more time to think. He didn't exactly procure them a way out. Just seemed like Jain Farstrider deserved to accomplish a bit more with his death than to allow Mat more time to solve a riddle.