Discuss the Epiclogue

[Caius Callus]

Talmanes to the rescue.

Eh, Talmanes is Demandred.

It became blindingly obvious in TGS.

[AutomatedTeller]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

I think the main part of her arc is basically finished. Oh, I think we'll see her again, but she's out of time to come up with another plan that would sufficiently impress DO/SH in the time left before TG. Look for one more appearance for her, on the field of battle, completely out of her element, where I believe she will be killed by... well -- pretty much anything. My point is, she's done.

 

I dunno. Something I missed on my first read was this from the Epilogue:

 

"Now that Semirhage was gone, Graendal had begun placing some strings around their new, childlike Empress"

 

The Seanchan have the ability to destroy Rand's armies if they attack while the Randlanders are engaged with the trollocs. These strings may have consequences.

[PatsNats28]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

Poor poor, Kammy. Oh well. If she's smart, maybe she can still worm her way out of things and her upcoming consummation with SH.

 

G: *screams* *screams* *blinks* "Wait, you're actually pretty good."

SH: "I assure you I will have much more pleasure than you."

G: "Then you must be having a good time."

SH: "I shall taste your flesh."

G: "Oh yeah. Dirty talk! More! More!"

SH: "Uh..."

G: "Don't stop!"

SH: "What are you-?"

G: "Tell me you'll feast upon my soul! Do it!"

SH: "... I think I'll be leaving now."

G: "What?"

SH: "Just uh... continue whatever you were doing. I'll call you later."

G: "Hey! Don't go! GET BACK HERE, YOU BASTARD!"

 

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

 

Two top things the pattern was most cruel with Perrin for:

 

Number Two: Letting him think that being a Wolfbrother was dangerous for over two years prior to a "just kidding" immediately before Tarmon Gai'don.

 

And number One (say it with me): Faile

 

 

 

Yeah, the slaughter of his family at best was number three.

 

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

 

I didn't see him as a sociopath. Just naive due to being raised in a screwed up time. They can still set him straight. He's nowhere near Aram territory yet.

 

I'm not sure what happened with the Waygate. My guess is that Rand only had Loyal lock the doors when Moridin came up whistling while holding the Age of Legends version of a Battering Ram (with a C4 explosive tip).

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

 

I'm liking all of the theories on this. By the way, my brain is remembering a line about other Aiel clans that were too far east to join Rand in the initial crossing over the spine. Did they ever catch up, or could they also be involved in this.

 

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

Cue Ahkbar. But I also think Lanfear is being tortured here.

 

General conversation -

Cyn) "I want to make Lews Therin hurt."

Mor) "Good. I have an idea to make him suffer. If you do well, things might turn better for you."

Cyn) "I'm listening."

Mor) "It's simple. You can penetrate his dreams. If he learns you are being tortured, his nobility will get the better of him. His guard will be down and he'll come running."

Cyn) "Sounds good. Tortured. I can play that."

Mor) *smirking* "Play?"

Cyn) "... Oh f-"

 

My guess is that Mierin will turn away from the Shadow and try to get her sorry ass out of Dodge, but I don't see him really turning good. Yes, she is great with deception; but I can't see any reason why Moridin would NOT torture her to ensure a convincing performance. It will just come down to whether or not she can control herself in the end, because brilliant tactician or not, when it comes to Lews Therin... da bitch is crazy.

 

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

Me.... want..... MORE!

 

Anyway, it was Lan's future that showed a babe holding a sword, so I'm guessing Lan has to survive to be there to see his own kid.... Otherwise Min's viewing of Lan wouldn't really had been Lan's viewing but his future child's, so.... Yeah. I could be wrong. Crossing fingers.

 

I did love the "count" of followers during the first half of the book though. My brain kept thinking of the number count by fingers they did for the Magnificent Seven every time it came up.

 

Best post ever!

[Mr Ares]

I don't get how people cannot blame Mat at all in this. He could have opened the letter knowing it was something important. His motivation was his paranoid dislike of Aes Sedai. That he has some justified fear of Aes Sedai doesn't fully excuse him. As to Verin, some fault lies with her, but didn't the Black Ajah Oath restrict her in someway? I'd have to look back on it, but I think that motivated her unorthodox way of telling Mat. When Mat returns, he SHOULD feel guilty.

Maybe he could have opened it, but opening the letter would have forced him to do whatever the letter told him to do. And considering the experiences he's had with the Aes Sedai and others manipualting him, I can fully believe and sympathize with him not wanting to get entangled in yet another subplot.

Forced? It's not a magic letter. The only thing that would have forced Mat to do as the letter says is Mat. You can say he made a promise, and that he always keeps his promises, but that's his choice. He has to stand by the consequences. If he had opened that letter, he would have done something about the Waygate, but he chose not to do anything about the letter.

 

Secondly, I agree, there was a WHOLE part where Rand was closing all the gates and got Loial and then a replacement Orgier to show ALL waygates to him and I think he even sent out that Asha'man with Loial to close ALL gates, then that Asha'man returned about 2 books back having fulfilled his mission, how could they miss Caemlyn's?

The Waygates were warded and guarded (well, those that agreed to put guards on were, anyway. And those they found). But wards can be unspun. That was why Verin said to destroy the Gate. And destroying one is very difficult to do (think 13 AS, with a sa'angreal, to destroy it properly, as opposed to simply rendering it unusable until the Talisman of Growin is used). Something probably was done about the Caemlyn Waygate. It was undone.

 

I am currently re-reading tGS and its BOTH their faults. Verin originally asked him to stay in Caemlyn and open the letter in 10days! Mat started asking questions and complaining and she changed to deal for him to either open it immediately and do what it says or to STAY in Caemlyn for 20 days and open the letter or just forget about it. Knowing Mat, did anyone guess that he will choose the 3rd option?

She gave him two options: wait ten days, open it and do what it says, or ignore it and wait 30 days.

But its kind of Verin's fault too because she made a HUGE deal out of having Mat do what she says in the letter, and at the end letter was simply "hey mat there'll be an attack. be a dear and have the waygate destroyed".

Um, so you're saying Verin is at fault for saying, "this is hugely important, make sure you do it"?

 

(1) Rand is going to be unavailable to help with any assault to retake Caemlyn.

There are a number of AS, Kin, and Windfinders in Caemlyn. Rand would appear to be surplus to requirements. You make some fair points, but realistically, the city is crawling with channelers, and they need to only buy time for the armies to get involved. Sure, it would likely be a hard fought battle, but you would hardly need to be a Great Captain to recover from that situation. It would probably take more than just a couple of Soulless to deal with all the channelers.

 

Side note on channeler numbers in Caemlyn: since book seven, there have been occasional mentions of a number of AS staying at the Silver Swan inn in Caemlyn, usually somewhere between eight and ten, but constantly varying as new sisters come and go. The last reference of them I am aware of was in KoD. I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're still there (after all, they have to be in the city for some in-story reason). They were probably neutral AS during the split (it was mentioned there were no Reds at any point). A bunch of AS to help repel an assault? Not something I would say no to in a hurry.

 

(6) The tone. I didn't get defiance. Sure, Talmanes isn't going to roll over an die, but I got a different feeling. That feeling was first Olver is kind of a sociopath. It goes beyond wanting vengeance. He consciously uses Mat as a tool and nothing more. He expresses no affection and now this sociopath wants to kill. More importantly, Talmanes was completely and totally caught off guard by the assault. He reads the note, gets a little nervous, looks at Caemlyn, and sees it on fire. This is from outside of the city. The Trollocs have already begun burning it down, before any effective response by any military strength. I don't see the defiance, I see some panic.

I'm still not seeing this Olver is a sociopath thing. Using Mat? He thinks to himself that he's looking after Mat, that's one of the reasons he's staying with the Band - he doesn't know what Mat would do without him. Really, there is no hard evidence for it, and on balance I would say the little evidence we have leans away from it.

 

On an unrelated note, I must say I think the misspelling in the title is quite appropriate.

[Cyf]

For those who say she said the letter was important?

 

She slipped a small folded piece of paper out from under the picture. It was sealed with a drop of blood-red wax.

 

Mat took it hesitantly. "It is?"

 

"Instructions' date='" Verin said. "Which you will follow on the tenth day after I leave you in Caemlyn."

 

He scratched his neck, frowning, then moved to break the seal.

 

"You aren't to open them until that day," Verin said.

 

"What?" Mat demanded. "But—"

 

"That is my cost," Verin said simply.

 

"Bloody woman," he said, looking back at the paper. "I'm not going to swear to something unless I know what it is."

 

"I doubt you will find my instructions harsh, Matrim," she noted.

 

Mat scowled at the seal for a moment, then stood up. "I pass on it."

 

She pursed her lips. "Matrim, you—"

 

"Call me Mat," he said, grabbing his hat off the top of a cushion. "And I said there's no deal. I'll be in Caemlyn in twenty days of marching, anyway." He pushed open the tent flaps, gesturing out. "I'm not going to have you tying strings around me, woman."

 

She didn't move, though she did frown. "I had forgotten how difficult you can be."

 

"And proud of it," Mat said.

 

"And if we have a compromise?" Verin asked.

 

"You'll tell me what is in that bloody paper?"

 

"No," Verin said. "Because I might not need you to go through with the contents. I hope to be able to return to you and relieve you of the letter and send you on your way. But if I cannot . . ."

 

"The compromise, then?" Mat said.

 

"You may choose not to open the letter," Verin said. "Burn it. But if you do so, you wait fifty days in Caemlyn, just in case it takes me longer to return than I had expected."[/quote']

 

She did not in any way say it was important. :) She SHOULD have, but she DID NOT. The 'I might not need you' implies otherwise. So can people stop saying Verin made the message sound dire? She did not. Heck, before that she warns him about the DF posters, and that is said far more balefully.

[didymos]

She did not in any way say it was important. :) She SHOULD have, but she DID NOT. The 'I might not need you' implies otherwise. So can people stop saying Verin made the message sound dire? She did not. Heck, before that she warns him about the DF posters, and that is said far more balefully.

 

She may not have been able to. Saying it was of dire import might have fallen within her Oath to keep the Great Lord's secrets.

[CoonDawg]

The biggest disappointment concerning the Epilogue? There was more plot development in it than the other 800 pages of the book. Basically, the book itself was filler, and the afterthoughts was the story.

[GusE]

CoonDawg, you should stop buying the books and just read the chapter summaries at encyclopaedia-wot.

[Tud]

I agree with several others regarding Olver. If you think about what was contained in his POV, he is working towards avenging the death of his Father at the hands of a particular Shaido. Considering the damage that this person wrought to his life (It literally wiped out his entire family), his restraint in seeking out only the actual perpetrator is actually extrordinary. On top of that, the other Aiel would regard his quest as very honorable resulting in him acquiring much Je...

 

On the subject of the invasion of Camelynn, I think it will be a case of Mat's Taveren luck working even without him being there...Think about it..The trollocs are in Camelynn at the worst possible moment (When all but one of the Aes Sedai are gone..and she's a Black sister, to boot!) and yet there are all those nice cannons set up ready to be deployed with trained crews just waiting to have at it...I'm thinking that Talmanes will fight his way in, deploy the cannons and slaughter the shadow forces...There'll be much damage, but the Band and the Andoran trained crews will save the day (Fulfilling yet another of the prophocies..Elayne needing a severed hand..).

 

As for Lan's situation...How many of y'all want to bet that Logain is going to show up with a bunch of Ashaman to smash the shadow spawn...Remember that Rand even memntioned that he was letting a friend ride to his death un-supported and how much it pained him that he'd allowed it. If he'd go to Maradon to save Itrulade, do you think he'd let Lan get wiped out? I sure don't think so...

 

Boy, this book was great...Well except for the time line issue, that could have been handled a bit more cleanly.

 

tud

[didymos]

The biggest disappointment concerning the Epilogue? There was more plot development in it than the other 800 pages of the book. Basically, the book itself was filler, and the afterthoughts was the story.

 

I'm gonna need you to show your work on that one.

[Guest Ishu161]

Rand's dreaming of Cyndane was actually the most interesting. I dunno...but I think he won't go out of his way to save her. Maybe she's finally turned from the shadow, maybe not....either way, I predict her death in AMoL...and somehow, I see Rand trying to save her still!!

[Mr Ares]

For those who say she said the letter was important?

 

She slipped a small folded piece of paper out from under the picture. It was sealed with a drop of blood-red wax.

 

Mat took it hesitantly. "It is?"

 

"Instructions' date='" Verin said. "Which you will follow on the tenth day after I leave you in Caemlyn."

 

He scratched his neck, frowning, then moved to break the seal.

 

"You aren't to open them until that day," Verin said.

 

"What?" Mat demanded. "But—"

 

"That is my cost," Verin said simply.

 

"Bloody woman," he said, looking back at the paper. "I'm not going to swear to something unless I know what it is."

 

"I doubt you will find my instructions harsh, Matrim," she noted.

 

Mat scowled at the seal for a moment, then stood up. "I pass on it."

 

She pursed her lips. "Matrim, you—"

 

"Call me Mat," he said, grabbing his hat off the top of a cushion. "And I said there's no deal. I'll be in Caemlyn in twenty days of marching, anyway." He pushed open the tent flaps, gesturing out. "I'm not going to have you tying strings around me, woman."

 

She didn't move, though she did frown. "I had forgotten how difficult you can be."

 

"And proud of it," Mat said.

 

"And if we have a compromise?" Verin asked.

 

"You'll tell me what is in that bloody paper?"

 

"No," Verin said. "Because I might not need you to go through with the contents. I hope to be able to return to you and relieve you of the letter and send you on your way. But if I cannot . . ."

 

"The compromise, then?" Mat said.

 

"You may choose not to open the letter," Verin said. "Burn it. But if you do so, you wait fifty days in Caemlyn, just in case it takes me longer to return than I had expected."[/quote']

 

She did not in any way say it was important. :) She SHOULD have, but she DID NOT. The 'I might not need you' implies otherwise. So can people stop saying Verin made the message sound dire? She did not. Heck, before that she warns him about the DF posters, and that is said far more balefully.

If anything, surely the "I might not need you" indicates that it is important. After all, if she doesn't need him to go through with it, she'll be back to relieve him of the letter. She didn't come back, therefore she does need him to go through with the letter. So this is certainly something Verin considers important. Mat's rationale for not opening was not their differing ideas of what was important, but his irrational desire to avoid AS complications, and his equally irrational desire to always keep his promises.

[Charlz Guybon]

On the subject of the invasion of Camelynn, I think it will be a case of Mat's Taveren luck working even without him being there...Think about it..The trollocs are in Camelynn at the worst possible moment (When all but one of the Aes Sedai are gone..and she's a Black sister, to boot!)

Do we know that all those Aes Sedai at that hotel in the New City went to the fields of Merrilor?

[Duskfire]

She did not in any way say it was important. :) She SHOULD have, but she DID NOT. The 'I might not need you' implies otherwise. So can people stop saying Verin made the message sound dire? She did not. Heck, before that she warns him about the DF posters, and that is said far more balefully.

 

Good find that! Your right, nowhere does Verin stress that its important, and if anything she makes it seem casual and that it doesnt matter whether he opens it or not. I am sure if Mat knew of the importance of the letter he would have opened it, but to him it could have been anything.

[nolirion]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

Poor poor, Kammy. Oh well. If she's smart, maybe she can still worm her way out of things and her upcoming consummation with SH.

 

G: *screams* *screams* *blinks* "Wait, you're actually pretty good."

SH: "I assure you I will have much more pleasure than you."

G: "Then you must be having a good time."

SH: "I shall taste your flesh."

G: "Oh yeah. Dirty talk! More! More!"

SH: "Uh..."

G: "Don't stop!"

SH: "What are you-?"

G: "Tell me you'll feast upon my soul! Do it!"

SH: "... I think I'll be leaving now."

G: "What?"

SH: "Just uh... continue whatever you were doing. I'll call you later."

G: "Hey! Don't go! GET BACK HERE, YOU BASTARD!"

 

I am still laughing

Yet when bornhald is going to tell Perin is family was murder by children of the light under Fain what do you think is going to happen ?

[Erunion]

1. Graendal's in trouble.

 

Nasty little badguys always get their comeuppance. Graendal will probably end up mindtrapped.

 

2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

 

I for one think this was really well done. So obvious, yet no one seems to have guessed it. Well played, Team Jordan, well played.

 

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

 

Olver = Sociopath? What are you smoking? Were you never a ten year old? His reaction is perfectly natural, and perfectly normal, for his situation. The kids gonna have issues, but he isn't a sociopath. He's just gonna need a good psychiatrist when he grows up. Which is pretty normal, considering the whole buried his own mother by himself when he was nine thing, not to mention the loss of his entire family and growing up in an army.

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

 

Initial thought - 13*13 Aiel Male Channelers.

Second, much cooler thought - Alternate reality Aiel. I really like the theory that we haven't seen Demandred because he's been securing his rule in an alternate reality. That would be singularly epic, + something that we should have seen coming. We've already seen people using portal stones to get troops (Seanchan travelled to other worlds just after the breaking and brought back Raken, To'Raken, Torm, Grolm, Lopar's and etc). The Shadow using this technique is a thought I find really, really fascinating.

 

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

 

Oh dear. This could end badly.

 

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

 

Min's viewing was of Lan's future. He's not gonna die. Two possible scenarios -

a) Nynaeve feels Lan fighting the battle, comes in time (with backup) to save a battered, mutilated army. Possibly brings Lan back from dead/near dead.

b) Logain and co show up from where they've been hiding, brings The Legion of The Dragon (which, btw, hasn't done anything since PoD) and helps Lan hold the gap. Epic battle ensues, story cuts back and forth between it, the battle of Caemlyn and Really Big Meeting. Really Big Meeting ends, armies scatter throughout the world to fight the last battle, Rand Travels to Shayol Ghul. Fun times to follow.

[KelsoLooker]

Their Shara-men/women surely. The possibility of Dark-Side Aiel seems slim. Admittingly if a male got to epicentre of evilness, they could be turned by the 13x13 but they would have to beat the Blight.

[Alternate34]

There are a number of AS, Kin, and Windfinders in Caemlyn. Rand would appear to be surplus to requirements. You make some fair points, but realistically, the city is crawling with channelers, and they need to only buy time for the armies to get involved. Sure, it would likely be a hard fought battle, but you would hardly need to be a Great Captain to recover from that situation. It would probably take more than just a couple of Soulless to deal with all the channelers.

 

Side note on channeler numbers in Caemlyn: since book seven, there have been occasional mentions of a number of AS staying at the Silver Swan inn in Caemlyn, usually somewhere between eight and ten, but constantly varying as new sisters come and go. The last reference of them I am aware of was in KoD. I'd say there's a pretty good chance they're still there (after all, they have to be in the city for some in-story reason). They were probably neutral AS during the split (it was mentioned there were no Reds at any point). A bunch of AS to help repel an assault? Not something I would say no to in a hurry.

 

This is a good point. It makes me a little less ardent, though I am unsure about the number of channelers available. However, salvaging the situation would still take a great leader. On the military side, you still need to enter the city and defeat the opposing army. Travelling is the obvious solution, but slows down deployment. Attacking from the outside is difficult as long as the Trollocs know how to man walls. The longer the delay, the worse the situation becomes. With hazy details, its hard to know exactly how hard this would be, but I would suspect the Shadow to make it a priority to devastate Caemlyn for its psychological connections to Rand and its power in general.

 

Now, even assuming a battle won, the aftermath will be severe. Bob T mentioned Cairhien. Cairhien is a pretty dumpy place now. The Trollocs being loosed on the city in the middle of a civilian population is demoralizing. Who wants to live in a country under Elayne when both of her major cities have been decimated? It will be hard to win over the people by saying, "Hey Last Battle, Dark One is really powerful, gotta defeat him or no one's safe," while the Dark One's minions are saying, "Join the Dark One and you don't have to be in a Trolloc's cookpot."

[Mr Ares]

Thing is, there are already forces inside the walls. The Trollocs don't control the city yet, as far as we know. So all you need is someone on the inside to throw the gates open. As I said, it wouldn't take a brilliant leader. Just a lot of hard work.

[rambling]

 

... 2. Perrin realises Noam chose to become a wolf.

Perrin realizes he will not lose himself to the wolf as long as he does not want to. He will live through TG, but Elyas will die (which will fulfill the Dark Prophecy about a wolfbrother dying. I believe Galad and Berelain will also both not survive TG.

 

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

Caemlyn will burn. Mat and the Band will recover the dragons, with help from Moiraine and Thom.

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel Dudes.

I believe this is going to be connected in some way to the "private lessons" Taim has been giving Asha'man. I have absolutely no evidence for this, other than Androl's musings that people don't seem quite the same after coming back from those sessions. Or it could be SOLELY the male Aiel Channelers that ran off to the blight to die. Either/or.

 

5. Rand dreams of Cyndane.

Will not be a major factor, unless of course Rand is able to save/redeem Mierin in some way, and maybe she'll help the Light at TG, but I doubt it. I think she's Moridin and SH's little toy right now, and she'll only be let loose at TG to wreak havoc with other Dreadlords. And now it seems Graendal has the same fate in store for her.

 

6. Lan reaches the Gap.

Okay, here's my big loony theory: Lan's battle begins just as Egwene begins to attempt to convince Rand not to break the seals. At the start of this argument, Nynaeve and Elayne will be firmly on Egwene's side, but DURING the debate, Lan will be killed in battle and Nynaeve will feel it while Elayne learns that Caemlyn has been burned to the ground. Once the initial shock is passed, Nynaeve (in grief and anger) and Elayne (in MUCH anger) will switch sides, and agree with Rand. The time for trying to hold the DO back is over, and now the time has come to fight. After all, what is more dangerous than a group of uber-powerful channlers with nothing left to lose except their desire for revenge.

 

2. Perrin

That was nicely done. Agree that Elyas will die, but not that he features in the Dark Prophecy. I'm not fussed about Berelain or Galad, but Alliandre is definitely toast, that was a creepy POV.

 

3.Olver

I don't think he's a budding sociopath, he'll either come to a tragic end or get 'adopted' by Brigitte. The Dragons will be recovered with the help of all those mercenaries camped outside Caemlyn, but the city will take a huge knock. Good job Elayne started to set those hospitals up with the Kin. They'll need them.

 

4. Creepy Red Aiel

I'm sticking to my first impression - they're from Shara and we won't see much of them other than as troops to bolster numbers

 

5. Cyndane

Well, Rand has gone through a whole book without anyone trying to mess with his mind. Quite an ominous start, somehow this seems a lot darker than any other attempt so far, which makes me think Moridin is behind it.

 

6. Lan

I quite like your loony theory. Except, if Lan dies I WILL throw my toys out of the pram. I'm pretty sure that help is on it's way. There were hints in the POV and there are 2 big gaps in the timeline where help could have been organised.

[Annia]

For those who say she said the letter was important?

 

She slipped a small folded piece of paper out from under the picture. It was sealed with a drop of blood-red wax.

 

Mat took it hesitantly. "It is?"

 

"Instructions' date='" Verin said. "Which you will follow on the tenth day after I leave you in Caemlyn."

 

He scratched his neck, frowning, then moved to break the seal.

 

"You aren't to open them until that day," Verin said.

 

"What?" Mat demanded. "But—"

 

"That is my cost," Verin said simply.

 

"Bloody woman," he said, looking back at the paper. "I'm not going to swear to something unless I know what it is."

 

"I doubt you will find my instructions harsh, Matrim," she noted.

 

Mat scowled at the seal for a moment, then stood up. "I pass on it."

 

She pursed her lips. "Matrim, you—"

 

"Call me Mat," he said, grabbing his hat off the top of a cushion. "And I said there's no deal. I'll be in Caemlyn in twenty days of marching, anyway." He pushed open the tent flaps, gesturing out. "I'm not going to have you tying strings around me, woman."

 

She didn't move, though she did frown. "I had forgotten how difficult you can be."

 

"And proud of it," Mat said.

 

"And if we have a compromise?" Verin asked.

 

"You'll tell me what is in that bloody paper?"

 

"No," Verin said. "Because I might not need you to go through with the contents. I hope to be able to return to you and relieve you of the letter and send you on your way. But if I cannot . . ."

 

"The compromise, then?" Mat said.

 

"You may choose not to open the letter," Verin said. "Burn it. But if you do so, you wait fifty days in Caemlyn, just in case it takes me longer to return than I had expected."[/quote']

 

She did not in any way say it was important. :) She SHOULD have, but she DID NOT. The 'I might not need you' implies otherwise. So can people stop saying Verin made the message sound dire? She did not. Heck, before that she warns him about the DF posters, and that is said far more balefully.

If anything, surely the "I might not need you" indicates that it is important. After all, if she doesn't need him to go through with it, she'll be back to relieve him of the letter. She didn't come back, therefore she does need him to go through with the letter. So this is certainly something Verin considers important. Mat's rationale for not opening was not their differing ideas of what was important, but his irrational desire to avoid AS complications, and his equally irrational desire to always keep his promises.

 

She gave the letter to Mat because she knew she could trust him to keep his promise to do something about the threath if he found out about it. When Mat made the PROMISE to not open it, she tried to prevent him from leaving before the attack, so that he could save the city. She knew she could trust Mat to keep his promise, it didn't really matter to her which promise he would keep since the shadowspawn army was supposed to arrive before Mat left.

[aynatal2000]

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

Surely unless every single one of the Kin Elayne had in Caemlyn went with her to the 'big meeting' or conveniently died, one of them should have opened a Gateway to all the armies. Now I'm sure there'll be some reason it won't happen so smoothly, but the invasion should soon be facing hundreds of thousands of troops and hundreds of channelers in short order. Which given how a few dozen channelers went against 100k Shadowspawn in KOD, should see them toast pretty quickly.

 

Of course the Shadow could choose this fight as the time to bring their channelers out of the Shadows to fight. Or Demandred finally show what he's doing and bring forces. Or the Seanchan attack happen at the same time right at the start of AMOL so the 'Light forces' have to split to fight two battles at once, but as it currently stands it shouldn't be a big set back - not as large scale destruction as Maradon. I expect some spanner will get thrown in the works - the fun is trying to guess which one.

But Egwene has proven that in the dream you only have to not accept the totality of the A'dam and snick you disarm it.Some of the Last Battle will be fought in the dream... I wonder how Tuon will react when all her damane and suldame are rendered useless.Using the Dream Spike the Shadow will think that they have Caemlyn sewed up easy as you please, but I thin Caemlyn is going to be a trap for the Shadow and its hidden forces.I think Team Light is gonna open up a can of whup ass... and Logain is gonna Rock!!!!

[ajfurst]

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

Surely unless every single one of the Kin Elayne had in Caemlyn went with her to the 'big meeting' or conveniently died, one of them should have opened a Gateway to all the armies. Now I'm sure there'll be some reason it won't happen so smoothly, but the invasion should soon be facing hundreds of thousands of troops and hundreds of channelers in short order. Which given how a few dozen channelers went against 100k Shadowspawn in KOD, should see them toast pretty quickly.

 

Of course the Shadow could choose this fight as the time to bring their channelers out of the Shadows to fight. Or Demandred finally show what he's doing and bring forces. Or the Seanchan attack happen at the same time right at the start of AMOL so the 'Light forces' have to split to fight two battles at once, but as it currently stands it shouldn't be a big set back - not as large scale destruction as Maradon. I expect some spanner will get thrown in the works - the fun is trying to guess which one.

But Egwene has proven that in the dream you only have to not accept the totality of the A'dam and snick you disarm it.Some of the Last Battle will be fought in the dream... I wonder how Tuon will react when all her damane and suldame are rendered useless.Using the Dream Spike the Shadow will think that they have Caemlyn sewed up easy as you please, but I thin Caemlyn is going to be a trap for the Shadow and its hidden forces.I think Team Light is gonna open up a can of whup ass... and Logain is gonna Rock!!!!

The key bit there is in the dreamworld. Egwene disbelieves the a'dam can effect her so it doesn't. They can't do that in the 'real' world. If Tuon slaps an a'dam on Egwene she's a damane until someone else releases her, no matter how strong willed she is or wishes otherwise.

[WhiteJoker]

3. Olver's seems to be a budding sociopath, and Caemlyn is invaded by Shadowspawn. Talmanes fears the loss of the Dragons.

Surely unless every single one of the Kin Elayne had in Caemlyn went with her to the 'big meeting' or conveniently died, one of them should have opened a Gateway to all the armies. Now I'm sure there'll be some reason it won't happen so smoothly, but the invasion should soon be facing hundreds of thousands of troops and hundreds of channelers in short order. Which given how a few dozen channelers went against 100k Shadowspawn in KOD, should see them toast pretty quickly.

 

Of course the Shadow could choose this fight as the time to bring their channelers out of the Shadows to fight. Or Demandred finally show what he's doing and bring forces. Or the Seanchan attack happen at the same time right at the start of AMOL so the 'Light forces' have to split to fight two battles at once, but as it currently stands it shouldn't be a big set back - not as large scale destruction as Maradon. I expect some spanner will get thrown in the works - the fun is trying to guess which one.

But Egwene has proven that in the dream you only have to not accept the totality of the A'dam and snick you disarm it.Some of the Last Battle will be fought in the dream... I wonder how Tuon will react when all her damane and suldame are rendered useless.Using the Dream Spike the Shadow will think that they have Caemlyn sewed up easy as you please, but I thin Caemlyn is going to be a trap for the Shadow and its hidden forces.I think Team Light is gonna open up a can of whup ass... and Logain is gonna Rock!!!!

The key bit there is in the dreamworld. Egwene disbelieves the a'dam can effect her so it doesn't. They can't do that in the 'real' world. If Tuon slaps an a'dam on Egwene she's a damane until someone else releases her, no matter how strong willed she is or wishes otherwise.

Add to this, even if some of the Last Battle is somehow fought in Tel'aran'rhiod that doesn't mean the Seanchan are going to be involved in that fight. The Seanchan have never once had a connection to Tel'aran'rhiod; why would they magically and suddenly enter into that fight?

[griz]

The side of light will have quite a problem with Caemelyn. With trollocs overwhelming the city, plus with black tower waiting for the right time to strike, leads for quite a show down. Then the problems of the borderlands and Seanchan. Why March?