ALMOST??? What you mean, Moiraine?

[Jblaylock]

OMG.

 

It's like you two (Demiandre and Whiskyjack) are actualy trying to compete over who is the most like Dwight Schrute.

[Mr Ares]

I am curious..Why isn't Rand burned or dead? Only problem we have seen with Calandor is that it amplifies his madness via taint but something that can draw so much power and has no buffer should kill him instantly, right?

Wrong. Channelers do not themselves have buffers - they can draw too much and burn themselves out. They do not kill themselves instantly, do they? No, not unless they draw too much. Angreal and sa'angreal have buffers preventing one from drawing too much, but Callandor is flawed and lacks that buffer, meaning that one could conceivably draw too much and burn oneself out while using it. By the way, none of this is conjecture, just plain fact. Arguing against it is pointless. "It [Callandor] is flawed, lacking the buffer that makes over sa'angreal safe to use. And it apparently magnifies the taint, inducing wildness of the mind." PoD 27.

Dude, did you even read what I wrote? Sorry to sound harsh but you are just babbling.

Painful though it was, I did indeed read what you wrote. And I addressed it. If you feel I have failed to address your points, then show me where. I am happy to enter into a constructive dialogue, to show you precisely where you are going wrong, but a dialogue requires at least two people. Rand is not burnt out or dead because he hasn't overdrawn on the Power or otherwise done anything else that has burnt him out or killed him. We have been told - and I provided the quote, in addition to that someone else provided earlier in the thread - that there is more to Callandor's flaw than just amplifying the madness. The lack of a buffer does not mean that one automatically will be burnt out, only that it is a possibility. I fail to see what I haven't addressed. Please enlighten me, or I shall be forced to conclude that you are merely "trolling". I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

1) You rehashed everyone's else comment with a big wrong at the beginning. What you wrote had nothing to do wiht what I asked.

2) We know for fact every chaneler has his/her limit. When they draw more power than that their limit without the aid of angreal or..they burn out. Now one uses angreal or sa'angreal to go beyond that limit (leaps and bounds).

3) We also know for fact that Rand drew way more power than what he normally could when he used Calandor. So one must ask this question, how he did it? Unless he never crossed the capacity of his body, which would make Calandor essentially pointless.

 

You have been enlightened. Plz, respond to the actual question. I don't wanna hear some quote from web link.

I really didn't think my comments were that hard to grasp, but apparently they were. I didn't rehash everyone, as the only person to have responded to that post was Bob T Dwarf. Given that he and I often have very different views on the series, me weighing in when he has already done so does not make it a rehash. I addressed everything you said. Everything I wrote had to do with what you asked. Now, channelers have limits. Angreal and sa'angreal increase those limits. Angreal and sa'angreal have buffers preventing one from going beyond those amplified limits. If a channeler can handle X, and with an angreal he can handle 10X, then using that angreal to hold 9X is perfectly safe. If the angreal had a buffer he could go to 10X but not beyond, if it lacked the buffer he could go beyond 10X, but it would burn out or kill him to do so. That's what I said in my first post, so the conclusion that I am "babbling" is entirely unwarranted. You simply failed to understand my point. Granted, it could have been clearer, but it did address your points precisely. I realise others have responded to you since my post, but I'm doing so anyway to clarify my position. If you are still struggling with how I am making my point, I am willing to try again. I'm fully aware that sometimes my points do need clarification, so simply ask if there is anything you are unsure about, and I will do my best.

 

He is just miffed because I commented on someone else's post and he started calling me troll. Yeh, I made rude comments on him;)

At no point did I call you a troll, and you were rude to me from your first response.

[Demiandre]

OMG.

 

It's like you two (Demiandre and Whiskyjack) are actualy trying to compete over who is the most like Dwight Schrute.

I shall say I do not know who he is. I looked on wikipedia, and I don't really understand why... Do we look like salesmen??

 

WhiskyJack, I shall say that your quote provide explanation to your point of view. But I stick with my idea nonetheless. It just unprove what I thought about the taint in a circle. And here I stop debating. : )

(It's not that I feel I'm losing the argument, but just that it really is off topic, and that there is nothing to add)

[Jblaylock]

OMG.

 

It's like you two (Demiandre and Whiskyjack) are actualy trying to compete over who is the most like Dwight Schrute.

I shall say I do not know who he is. I looked on wikipedia, and I don't really understand why... Do we look like salesmen??

 

WhiskyJack, I shall say that your quote provide explanation to your point of view. But I stick with my idea nonetheless. It just unprove what I thought about the taint in a circle. And here I stop debating. : )

(It's not that I feel I'm losing the argument, but just that it really is off topic, and that there is nothing to add)

 

 

Dwight is a charecter from the office, who is a know-it-all but typicaly only for either useless info or info partaining to dorky sci-fi/fantasy facts. I mean, I love WOT, and I like discussing it, but the level you two were going at it just reminded me of him. If you haven't watched "the Office" then you wouldn't get it.

[Ozzie_aiel]

Are you sure you can't burn yourself out with an Angreal? I know it buffers you when you draw more than you normally can, but surely there has to be a point when those buffers give way under the pressure, such as trying to draw more than you could even trought the Angreal

[JustiNintendo]

 

Uh, no. Not unless it's flawed. And a sa'angreal is not fundamentally different from an angreal. They both do the same thing: allow a person to channel more than they normally could. It's just that the "sa" variety do it lots better. Quoth the Glossary:

 

 

 

This very topic proves that you can kill/burn yourself using an angreal, right?

 

And yes, Sa'angreal is just an angreal without buffer and it can allow higher flow of one power.

Okay, I might be getting this wrong but I would like to see an example of a Sa'angreal with buffer.

 

The rod Egwene used during the Seanchan attack of the White Tower. We have no indication that using that sa'angreal presented any danger to her. From all indications in the book a sa'angreal is just a more powerful angreal and Callandor is the only one we have seen with a flaw that lacks the buffer. The CK are special because of how powerful they are, that is why they require the access key. There is nothing to suggest that all sa'angreal lack a buffer.

 

Sorry but that makes no sense. Access key for CK are working as buffer! Whats the point of having a buffer if it's not up to the task?

 

You have a good argument but it still seems to me that we have seen two exceptions to the rule - Callandor with its flaw and the CK that were so immensely powerful that no one was strong enough to handle them without special ter'angreal. If lack of a buffer in a sa'angreal is the norm, why is the lack of a buffer in Callandor considered a flaw? We still see Egwene handle a sa'angreal without any thought that there was a problem - although, and I don't want to admit this and weaken the position I believe in, she is handling it in a circle and Suian handles it in a circle in tDR when healing Mat.

 

Because we have not seen books supporting this theory though it's all over internet. Good catch about Egwene using link when she was holding the Sa'angreal. Cadusane (or Mo) did mention that Calandor had no buffer. Is that whatled to the conclusion that other Sa'angreals did have buffer? Or she made the case against Calandor only?

 

Also, Rand did use Calandor alone so you are not just going to turn crispy if you use Sa'angreal alone. In case CK, the power scale was so high that no one would take that risk. That was my understanding. Now that taint is gone, I am sure Rand can use Calandor "safely" (there is always the risk of stepping over the threshold).

 

Rand likely does possess the ability now to use Callandor safely, however, he'll never be able to draw out it's true power unless he's linked in a circle with two women. I remember this because it was one of the first things Cadsuane explained to him whenever she appeared in the series. I think that Callandor and the Choeden Kal are the only examples of Sa'Angreal in the series without the buffer, although the "Circle" theory presented earlier was a good catch. I guess we'll find out if another sa'angreal appears that shows the same flaw...lol

[Elend]

To bring this on topic, this answer is entirely from memory, so you may want to confirm. But I'm reasonably confident in it.

 

Rand left just a few random people behind, not important to the plot or even named. They likely were there just so Rand wouldn't succeed from a meta standpoint, to show his limitations. So he almost transported everyone.

 

As far as links go, here's my take:

 

The taint is felt by the circle leader because feelings in a circle are shared. This allows them to check if its tainted, etc, but the actual originator of the power acts as a "filter" if you will for things like the taint. The Power originates with the people in the link and it'd pass through them first, leaving gunk behind in the saidin channelers in the circle.

[WhiskyJack]

Are you sure you can't burn yourself out with an Angreal? I know it buffers you when you draw more than you normally can, but surely there has to be a point when those buffers give way under the pressure, such as trying to draw more than you could even trought the Angreal

 

 

Something very similar happened here. Power needed to transport everyone was more than what his body plus angreal could handle so I am pretty sure he drew more from his own body than he should have. That's why he was in such a bad shape when they arrived and hence the comment "almost".

[Mr Ares]

Are you sure you can't burn yourself out with an Angreal? I know it buffers you when you draw more than you normally can, but surely there has to be a point when those buffers give way under the pressure, such as trying to draw more than you could even trought the Angreal

The whole point of the buffers on the angreal is to stop you from drawing too much from it. If a given angreal triples your strength, then you would not be able to channel more than three times your strength through it. So yes, we are sure that you can't burn yourself out through an angreal, unless it lacks the buffer.

[Vermillion]

Callandor is flawed. When Rand uses it he always describes it being on a razors edge unlike any other one he used.

 

The CK thing has likely 3 explanations. 1. They were wrong about burning out. 2. It is so powerful that it's not safe to use directly and an exception. 3. It was built with no buffer due to size and mobility and the keys are the buffers.

[Sharaman]

Callandor is flawed. When Rand uses it he always describes it being on a razors edge unlike any other one he used.

 

The CK thing has likely 3 explanations. 1. They were wrong about burning out. 2. It is so powerful that it's not safe to use directly and an exception. 3. It was built with no buffer due to size and mobility and the keys are the buffers.

The keys are the buffers. The saidar key overloaded at Shadar Logoth.

[zshadez]

Ok, here goes...

 

Rand alone can hold a certain amount of Saidin safely. Lets call his safe maximum 10. He can safely channel at any level 1-10, but he CAN pull in more power than he can handle (11+) and risk burn out or death.

 

A normal fully functioning Sa'Angreal increases his power. With a SA we'll say that he can hold Saidin at a level of 50, and channel anywhere from 1-50 safely, and CAN NOT pull in more power than he can handle (51+).

 

Callandor also increases his power, and lets him handle a level of 50... but it lacks the buffer that keeps him from drawing too much, so with Callandor he CAN pull in 51+ and risk burnout or death.