Forsaken walk bk. into the Light? In memory of light....

[aznprince001]

WOW very thorough... I better read my books again, some of that stuff i've must have missed...[/color]

[demonspawn]

After giving this some thought the only solution I can come up with, other than Stilling Semirhage, is to use a former sul'dam, or anyone else who's willing, to "leash" her with an a'dam.

 

That way they would be able to benefit from her knowlege with the power.

[Luckers]

Bonding her would work, or a forced circle of thirteen.

[demonspawn]

But does the "forcing" not involve Myrdraal?

 

Does it not state that it requires 13 dreadlords and 13 Myrdraal? Luckers, you've proved me wrong on many occasions is this another chance for you to do it?

 

I'd be in favour of the sul'dam method myself!

[Luckers]

Lol, no, you're completely right about that. I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the practice used by the Black Ajah to torture, break and punish people. Essentially a circle of twelve women can force a thirteenth into the circle in much the same way an a'dam creates a forced link. However since there is no assumption that the sul'dam can't channel, and therefore some control must be retained by the damane (we see this with Egwene or Moghedian... she does some of the channeling herself, and the leash holder does some).

 

It's a weaker link. The forced circle grants complete control seemingly.

[demonspawn]

But on the subject of the Forsaken coming back to the Light.

The only one I could see coming back to the light is Asmodean because he worked so long with Rand and he seemed to enjoy it!

[algspkr]

If she gets cornered I can see Grendeal switching sides, but the rest seem set in their ways.

[Luckers]

Agreed.

 

And Demonspawn... Asmodean aint coming back. He's dead and gone for good.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Yup, Asmodean died "the final death" according to out dear resident expert, Professor Shai'tan.

 

I would see Graendal switching, not if she were cornered (I think she would be trying to escape) but if the Dark One is planning to give his followers the literal and figurative shaft, and she figured it out, I could see her switching then ... but I'm not really sure how she could convince anyone that she really meant it ...

[Mystica]

I may be completely off the track of thought this thread is following, but...

 

Returning to the light seems to me to be only possible if it is done voluntarily and based on a true and personal desire to do so.

I believe the secret to it is free will.

 

In the books this seems to be the case as well, as is demonstrated by the story of Ingtar in The Great Hunt when he confesses of being the one who let the enemie in Fal Dara to Rand.

(note here also the 'intent' and 'reason' for his actions)

He turned to darkness in despair, not because he enjoyed evil or doing evil.

He then makes the decision himself to redeam himself and making the ultimate sacrifice to allow Rand and the others to do what they had to. He did this of his own free will, despite Rand's objections, and in doing so already felt the grace of the light upon him.

 

Maybe all this doesn't make much sence, but that's my idea on it.

 

Having said that, I do not believe you càn turn anyone to the Light by force, because that would automatically undo the 'Free Will' aspect, which to me seems the ultimate ingredient to do so.

 

Forcing them to fight against the Dark, yes. Forcing them back into the Light, no.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I agree completely that "free will" is an integral part of the Light, as evidenced by the Creator stepping back and essentially saying "OK, it all you guys now". So, no one could be forcibly "turned" to the Light.

[Sern Al Wardragon]

Thank you Mystica for reminding me one reason why I first started this subject. Ingtar's change of heart expressed the possibilities in the story. People can turn back.

 

It is possible for a Forsaken to change.

 

I think it would take outside assistant to help bring one of the Forsaken (and I think it could only be one already cut off from Mr. Shia Tan) back to the side of good. I doubt one could turn quickly enough to help in the Last Battle but it would be wild to see that happen.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Not necessarily.

 

Let's take it at least semi-logically. Many of us feel that Rand ( and everybody else too ) could not have behaved much more stupidly than they have so far. Yet, all the main characters have survived. In many senses, the cause of the Light has prospered. Things aint perfect, but, somehow, Rand has always managed to glean at least some form of victory in every crisis so far.

 

How can you do everything wrong but still come out at least a little ahead all of the time? Probably because your enemy is clandestinely helping you. Or, at least, not fighting you with his full strength.

 

What's the effect of everything that has happened so far? Rand is becoming a tempered weapon. Mat, Perrin and a whole lotta other folks are becoming experienced (and good ) at fighting the Shadow.

 

Graendal isn't my candidate for conversion. My guess, is that if anybody converts it will be Moridin. I think he's the only one who has figured out the ultimate cost of a DO victory. He's the non-com who says, "Yes SIR!" to the officer's idiotic orders and then goes out and does what is needed in spite of those orders.

 

Moridin is now playing his own game. I don't think that game is exactly the one the DO wants him to be playing.

 

That doesn't make him a good guy. Just somebody who has finally realized that he can't do everything that the boss wants, the way the boss wants it done anymore. Somebody who is looking for a way off a sinking ship.

[Taygrin]

I don't think moridin will come back to the light becuase

(1) Hes completely addicted to the TP and

(2) Hes insane, and has known most of the Dark Ones plans since at least the prolouge of EotW

[algspkr]

I agree that Moridin probably knows that Dark One's plan, and knows that it means the death of life, but I do not see him caring. He is insane, in PoD we see that he does not worry about death, he seems to see himself beyond death. In the Fisher King game we see that he is more obcessed with lost information and knowledge than he is with anything else. I believe that the Dark One is sharing with him the knowledge of past ages, or at least has promissed to do so. Moridin sees that knowledge as being worth any price, he will die and take the world with him if he can have it for just a short time.

 

Who knows, I maybe wrong in my interpratations and or assumptions in what they mean.

 

In any case Moridin will not betray the Dark One as Taygrin said he is addicted to the True Power and will not risk losing it.