Discuss Prologue Through Chapter 15

[Luckers]

Go.

[Luckers]

Ok, so who is in the Caralain Grass. The Stepeneos thing seems to be a pointer. Thoughts?

[shizuoka]

Those few lines were extremely confusing. And Rand bringing up Stepheneos(sp) seemed extremely random...

 

Up to the current chapter, were there any hints at all as to who is at the Grass or is this a total RAFO thing?

[Seminoles]

No clue about who is so important to find to Rand.

 

I'm annoyed at this point with Egwene! Undermining Rand trying to gather support against him, I mean I get her concern but I thought she knew by now that the taveren(sp) are right..they are the will of the pattern..especially this close to the end. If you don't trust them then who can you trust?

 

So far the balance in POV's has been great ..I don't feel as if I'm seeing too much of Perrin, at least as of yet. I'm anxious to see what happens with Galad/Perrin and how it all goes down. Should be exciting..he must do something remarkable during their upcoming fight or prevent it all together in some awesome way.

 

I snuck a peak earlier on the 1-5 when I didn't have the book and everyone acted like they knew was the dream spike or whatever did, did I miss it? I wonder if that's what was responsible for Egwenes dreams the three visions she had, especially the one about the cutting of the ropes of the crystal -- which seems to be the driving force behind her mistrust of breaking the seals.

 

And hmm on Alanna... I wonder what shes up to. I always suspected she might be black since she was with verin and bonded Rand..but with Rand saying it didn't matter the shadow seeing him, I'm guessing maybe she got a letter from verin and is trying to do good things, I hope.

 

Anyways, I haven't put the book down for 4 hours, felt like typing and expressing my thoughts let my mind wrap around all thats happening.. things are shaping up nicely. Now to just get Perrin caught up to current events!

 

Great book so far. I got emotional during the Rand/Tam scene.

 

Haha and the black tower is going to be one mess for sure, Rand isn't blind anymore. I can't wait to see how that plays out. It will be a hell of a show I bet.

 

Cheers!

[Stevros]

I snuck a peak earlier on the 1-5 when I didn't have the book and everyone acted like they knew was the dream spike or whatever did, did I miss it? I wonder if that's what was responsible for Egwenes dreams the three visions she had, especially the one about the cutting of the ropes of the crystal -- which seems to be the driving force behind her mistrust of breaking the seals.

 

There was someone who didn't realise that the 1-5 bit was not to have spoilers for the whole book. Was reading through the full book spoilers and he said he had given his full theory of what he understood the dreamspike to do (and how to use it) in the 1-5 section, which I found confusing (as I knew most explanation we have of the dreamspike comes later) when I went to the board the comment had been removed for being a spoiler for later in the book.

 

Also as half the people on these boards atm have not read the book quite a lot of them are picking what they see in other posts and trying to explain some entirely unconnected event.

[Olver_is_a_Forsaken]

Ok, so who is in the Caralain Grass. The Stepeneos thing seems to be a pointer. Thoughts?

 

 

At first I thought it was Mat (isn't the Tower of G around the south-western part of the CG-near Whitebridge?) then I realised that this wouldn't work as his timeline is caught up and really the only one that isn't is Perrin's.

 

I had thought there would be at least one Black Tower chapter. So far no dice. I'm happy that Mat's dialogue has improved compared to TGS.

[OsaroLJ]

Mat is just a treat to read so far. To be honest, i cant find fault with the way jordan/sanderson are building this book. I di wish, however, that we would get a Rand POV. i wish to see how he thinks nowadays

[tigersgirl]

Has anyone noticed that in Chapter 10 Tam is with Perrin and in Chapter 13 he is with Rand? Have I missed something and this is just a poorly placed moment BEFORE Cadsuane brought him to Rand? I'm really confused about this bit....

[CTKShadow]

Has anyone noticed that in Chapter 10 Tam is with Perrin and in Chapter 13 he is with Rand? Have I missed something and this is just a poorly placed moment BEFORE Cadsuane brought him to Rand? I'm really confused about this bit....

 

I found the different plotlines quite confusing as far as timing goes. However, timing-wise, Perrin hasn't caught up to the end of tGS yet, you will know when he does. Naturally, Rand is already ahead of that. So Tam will be "back" in Perrin's camp in the next Perrin PoV you get, because Perrin PoVs are behind Rand's.

 

Although Elayne is behind too, as far as I know, I didn't really notice anything obvious like this confuse things.

[tigersgirl]

Has anyone noticed that in Chapter 10 Tam is with Perrin and in Chapter 13 he is with Rand? Have I missed something and this is just a poorly placed moment BEFORE Cadsuane brought him to Rand? I'm really confused about this bit....

 

I found the different plotlines quite confusing as far as timing goes. However, timing-wise, Perrin hasn't caught up to the end of tGS yet, you will know when he does. Naturally, Rand is already ahead of that. So Tam will be "back" in Perrin's camp in the next Perrin PoV you get, because Perrin PoVs are behind Rand's.

 

Although Elayne is behind too, as far as I know, I didn't really notice anything obvious like this confuse things.

 

Awesome! Thanks. I had a feeling it might have been something like that...but when you're reading and trying to absorb everything it's like "huh??! wha??! I thought he was...huh??" lol

 

Thanks for the head's up about Elayne's POV - BUT she has just met with Egwene in the dream world - so after this meeting is her POV current?

[NetSlider]

I have to say that the whole time line is finally seems to be getting together. It does feel a bit forced and weird but all in all I'm very, very happy with the book so far (i'm on chapter 39).

Is it just me or this books seems to be a lot longer? tGS seemed to be half the size of ToM (I listen to tGS in like a day and a half but ToM I've been listening for two days now and still not done) Than again, there is so much going on in this book one has to pay very, very close attention to every single chapter as every single chapter has some sort of resolution. I LOVE IT!

[A2597]

ToM is the longest book in the series, longer than Lord of Chaos.

That said...it's not *that* much longer than tGS

[NetSlider]

Hey Luckers, I'm not sure why I can't PM anyone but I was hoping we can get Egwene's thread open. If possible with a poll to measure the extend of people's love for her (or hate. I sure hate that crazy.... OK, I'll try controlling myself here)

[TankSpill]

ToM is the longest book in the series, longer than Lord of Chaos.

That said...it's not *that* much longer than tGS

 

Not sure that's correct - TSR is the longest book. TofM is the 4th longest book.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wheel_of_Time#Books_in_the_series

[apbadd]

Ok, I don't have the book in front of me and from what I see on wotencylopedia.org the chanpter "For What has been Wrought" is within the first 15 chapters (though they seem to have some chapters mixed around).

 

How has no one discussed this yet?

 

I am being elusive as I don't want to spoil anything should this chapter not be in 1-15.

[jemron]

"For What Has Been Wrought" was freaking AWESOME! I almost teared up at the end of that chapter. So, Rand has laughed AND cried.

 

Great great stuff.

 

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Should I be less/more vague?

 

Also, how cool is it that Rand can simply "detect" darkfriends now? Just stare into their eyes, and call it good. I guess this means that Rhuarc and Amys aren't DFs? Since, afaik, he's been around them since this "new ability" has manifested itself? What's interesting is that he seemed to have the ability earlier on in book 4 too, but it seemed to go away over the last several books as he "descended" deeper into madness/the Dark One's plans.

 

How is it that Rand is so confident that he is no longer threatened by the DO or his minions? If he isn't being "forged into a sword" or weapon, what is he meant to do? Bring balance to the Pattern?

[NetSlider]

"For What Has Been Wrought" was freaking AWESOME! I almost teared up at the end of that chapter. So, Rand has laughed AND cried.

 

Great great stuff.

 

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Should I be less/more vague?

 

Also, how cool is it that Rand can simply "detect" darkfriends now? Just stare into their eyes, and call it good. I guess this means that Rhuarc and Amys aren't DFs? Since, afaik, he's been around them since this "new ability" has manifested itself? What's interesting is that he seemed to have the ability earlier on in book 4 too, but it seemed to go away over the last several books as he "descended" deeper into madness/the Dark One's plans.

 

How is it that Rand is so confident that he is no longer threatened by the DO or his minions? If he isn't being "forged into a sword" or weapon, what is he meant to do? Bring balance to the Pattern?

 

Second time in my life I actually teared up. When he actually said "father"...it was amazing.

[sdelu]

How is it that Rand is so confident that he is no longer threatened by the DO or his minions? If he isn't being "forged into a sword" or weapon, what is he meant to do? Bring balance to the Pattern?

 

 

I was listening to the audio for the first 20 or so chapters, and while listening I 100% expected the words "I am a shield" following that part. Alas, just a smile.

 

I liked the beginning to this book. A little slow in places, and I really was more interested in Perrin and was annoyed to have all the other scenes in the way, but they were worth it.

[apbadd]

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Either I was reading too fast or am just plain retarded. When did this occur?

[Alanna]

Chapter 15. When Nynaeve healed Naeff's madness, and attempted to heal Rand's, but couldn't.

[capuga]

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Either I was reading too fast or am just plain retarded. When did this occur?

 

After Nyneave heals Naeff's madness she Delves Rand and sees a similar blackness, only much more vast. But it is being held off from taking over his mind by a brilliant lightness. This is the chapter where a bubble of evil hits Tear and Nyneave and Naeff the Asha'man use wind to clean out the houses and people that had been dryed out and crumpled to dust.

 

I believe that the blackness is the link to Moridin. It had almost taking him over in tGS but he found his peace (the light) which is fighting off Moridin. I believe Nyneave will use her new found ability to Heal madness to separate Rand and Moridin.

[Dredlord]

Anybody else wondering how Rand recognized Suain Sanche? Since she had been stilled and healed The point was always made that nobody would recognize her for who she was, and none of the sisters did, requiring proof through interrogation of who she was. So if they who had spent years with her didn't recognize her, how did Rand just walk up to her and say, What's up? When he had only seen her for like 5 minutes about 10 books (a couple years?) ago??

[Dredlord]

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Either I was reading too fast or am just plain retarded. When did this occur?

 

After Nyneave heals Naeff's madness she Delves Rand and sees a similar blackness, only much more vast. But it is being held off from taking over his mind by a brilliant lightness. This is the chapter where a bubble of evil hits Tear and Nyneave and Naeff the Asha'man use wind to clean out the houses and people that had been dryed out and crumpled to dust.

 

I believe that the blackness is the link to Moridin. It had almost taking him over in tGS but he found his peace (the light) which is fighting off Moridin. I believe Nyneave will use her new found ability to Heal madness to separate Rand and Moridin.

 

 

I think you are reading too much into it. The blackness is the madness as she healed in Naeff, it is safe to say the blackness in Rand is also the madness, but much more extensive, and indication of how close to over the top he was. The Light holding it at bay must be the light from the top of Dragonmount that has cast him in a ray of light ever since. Instead of the face of shadow we had in TGS we now have rays of light and life following him. Nynaeve won't have to heal Rand's madness, it is already taken care of by the light.

[jemron]

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Either I was reading too fast or am just plain retarded. When did this occur?

 

After Nyneave heals Naeff's madness she Delves Rand and sees a similar blackness, only much more vast. But it is being held off from taking over his mind by a brilliant lightness. This is the chapter where a bubble of evil hits Tear and Nyneave and Naeff the Asha'man use wind to clean out the houses and people that had been dryed out and crumpled to dust.

 

I believe that the blackness is the link to Moridin. It had almost taking him over in tGS but he found his peace (the light) which is fighting off Moridin. I believe Nyneave will use her new found ability to Heal madness to separate Rand and Moridin.

 

 

I think you are reading too much into it. The blackness is the madness as she healed in Naeff, it is safe to say the blackness in Rand is also the madness, but much more extensive, and indication of how close to over the top he was. The Light holding it at bay must be the light from the top of Dragonmount that has cast him in a ray of light ever since. Instead of the face of shadow we had in TGS we now have rays of light and life following him. Nynaeve won't have to heal Rand's madness, it is already taken care of by the light.

 

But it's not gone... So, he could still descend into madness. If the light in his mind is somehow removed... well, that could be a major victory still for the Shadow.

 

Rand is awesome in these chapters, but he is still quite arrogant. The question I have is, is his arrogance confidence now, or is it still arrogance? He still has the wounds on his side, he's still got the madness (though currently held at bay) in his mind, and he's still got that weird link to Moridin. Is he still able/tempted/going to touch the TP? If so, that's yet another problem.

 

Yes, his epiphany in Veins of Gold was remarkable, and seems to have healed something, but is it permanent or temporary?

[capuga]

What about the healing that Nynaeve did? That was freaking amazing, and yet it seemed so sudden, and so unimportant. And Rand's brain is "crawling with it" but what is the "Light" or white stuff surrounding it?

 

Either I was reading too fast or am just plain retarded. When did this occur?

 

After Nyneave heals Naeff's madness she Delves Rand and sees a similar blackness, only much more vast. But it is being held off from taking over his mind by a brilliant lightness. This is the chapter where a bubble of evil hits Tear and Nyneave and Naeff the Asha'man use wind to clean out the houses and people that had been dryed out and crumpled to dust.

 

I believe that the blackness is the link to Moridin. It had almost taking him over in tGS but he found his peace (the light) which is fighting off Moridin. I believe Nyneave will use her new found ability to Heal madness to separate Rand and Moridin.

 

 

I think you are reading too much into it. The blackness is the madness as she healed in Naeff, it is safe to say the blackness in Rand is also the madness, but much more extensive, and indication of how close to over the top he was. The Light holding it at bay must be the light from the top of Dragonmount that has cast him in a ray of light ever since. Instead of the face of shadow we had in TGS we now have rays of light and life following him. Nynaeve won't have to heal Rand's madness, it is already taken care of by the light.

 

But it's not gone... So, he could still descend into madness. If the light in his mind is somehow removed... well, that could be a major victory still for the Shadow.

 

Rand is awesome in these chapters, but he is still quite arrogant. The question I have is, is his arrogance confidence now, or is it still arrogance? He still has the wounds on his side, he's still got the madness (though currently held at bay) in his mind, and he's still got that weird link to Moridin. Is he still able/tempted/going to touch the TP? If so, that's yet another problem.

 

Yes, his epiphany in Veins of Gold was remarkable, and seems to have healed something, but is it permanent or temporary?

 

I thought of it more of confidence and competence rather than arrogance. Notice he shows much more respect for those around him now and seems willing to listen to advise and differing opinions.

 

It will be interesting to see if this is permanent. He does still have to deal with his link to Moridin after all. That is why I theorized that the darkness in his mind is this link. It is much, much more vast then Naeff's but he didn't seem to be that much more insane than him so there seems to be something more going on with Rand. Also this gives me a viable alternative to how the Rand/Moridin link can be resolved other than the body swap theory which I've always hoped doesn't happen.