Discuss The Full Book

[Alleluia_Cone]

So far as I can recall, it's left mysterious. Moiraine says the 'Finns claim to have killed her by draining her too fast, but that is when she brings up the man who came for her.

 

That sounds confusing. On one hand, they handed her over but she was also killed?

[Terez]

So far as I can recall, it's left mysterious. Moiraine says the 'Finns claim to have killed her by draining her too fast, but that is when she brings up the man who came for her.

 

That sounds confusing. On one hand, they handed her over but she was also killed?

She was implying that they might have been lying to her. So, we don't know, exactly.

[fionwe1987]

And if they drained her too fast, how did she lose so little strength?

 

Maybe after they drained her, they kept her soul? Also... why didn't they try to keep Rand and suck out his power? Are they in fact a benign group, or are they working for the Shadow? Or do they only care about themselves?

[sumquy]

lots of people seem to think that Slayer hangs out there, since he appeared to disappear into it in book 4

 

i've seen that too, but i thought it was impossible to enter tog from tar. don't remember now where i got that idea from, but it is pretty firm in my head.

 

Yeah, well...the Ghenjei idea actually makes it more logical than it was before, since at least Moridin is getting another Chosen in exchange for losing Sammael.

 

yeah, i was just trying to see it from the Do point of view. maybe ishy gets more slack cuz of who he is, but still seems kinda risky for him to do on his own initiative. ishy inish:rolleyes:

[Diederichos]

Just what happened vis-a-vis Mat losing an eye and the Light of the World stuff? Did he give up something/did he lose an actual eye? Because the one-eyed fool part reads a lot like Mat.

[Terez]

And if they drained her too fast, how did she lose so little strength?

 

Maybe after they drained her, they kept her soul? Also... why didn't they try to keep Rand and suck out his power? Are they in fact a benign group, or are they working for the Shadow? Or do they only care about themselves?

About Lanfear...dunno. About Rand...the Aelfinn operate by different rules. They aren't allowed to harm visitors coming through the ter'angreal. The Eelfinn, on the other hand, get to demand a price.

 

lots of people seem to think that Slayer hangs out there, since he appeared to disappear into it in book 4

 

i've seen that too, but i thought it was impossible to enter tog from tar. don't remember now where i got that idea from, but it is pretty firm in my head.

RJ said so in an interview quote, but a lot of people dismissed it because Birgitte seemed to imply that it was possible.

[fionwe1987]

About Lanfear...dunno. About Rand...the Aelfinn operate by different rules. They aren't allowed to harm visitors coming through the ter'angreal. The Eelfinn, on the other hand, get to demand a price.

I see. So this was their price for the wishes they granted to Lanfear and Moiraine? Did Lanny not know of the dangers? And what were Moiraine's three wishes? To be let out alive was one, I presume?

 

Oh, and Terez... Since so much of the Egwene Rand meeting has been revealed already, I was wondering what your take on it was. Do you think Rand acted the way he did just so Egwene would unite everyone when he needed them a month later?

[Alleluia_Cone]

I wonder whether we will ever get a clear story of what happened to Lanfear. It has been so touch and go for such a long time.

 

By the way, to those in the know, any scenes of the Red Ajah in the White Tower and how they have been reacting to events?

[Alleluia_Cone]

Oh, and Terez... Since so much of the Egwene Rand meeting has been revealed already, I was wondering what your take on it was. Do you think Rand acted the way he did just so Egwene would unite everyone when he needed them a month later?

 

The irony if this was true, the Aes Sedai leader being manipulated like a pawn in a chessboard.

[Terez]

Silviana really irks Gawyn with her man-hating, though he doesn't realize it's general man-hating. He thinks she dislikes him personally.

[fionwe1987]

Silviana really irks Gawyn with her man-hating, though he doesn't realize it's general man-hating. He thinks she dislikes him personally.

Hehe... And what does Egwene think of this? The man-hating, I mean. She's generally been so positive about Silviana...

[Alleluia_Cone]

Silviana really irks Gawyn with her man-hating, though he doesn't realize it's general man-hating. He thinks she dislikes him personally.

 

But what about Tsutama and the taint being cleansed and so on? This is never touched upon?

[sumquy]

RJ said so in an interview quote, but a lot of people dismissed it because Birgitte seemed to imply that it was possible.

 

oh, well, of course, you can't trust anything rj had to say on it. bridgette is a much more reliable source.

[sumquy]

since it seems the secret of messanna=danelle do we find out how she was able to defeat the oath rod?

[Terez]

I think it was more a matter of people not trusting the reporter than people not trusting RJ.

[Terez]

since it seems the secret of messann=dellane do we find out how she was able to defeat the oath rod?

No. Some suggestions are offered by the Hunters before they take her, but we don't learn how she managed it because her mind is destroyed.

[sumquy]

since it seems the secret of messann=dellane do we find out how she was able to defeat the oath rod?

No. Some suggestions are offered by the Hunters before they take her, but we don't learn how she managed it because her mind is destroyed.

 

well that's a let down. i feel brandon kind of built that up with his "you should be thinking of ways to defeat it "comments.

[Terez]

About Lanfear...dunno. About Rand...the Aelfinn operate by different rules. They aren't allowed to harm visitors coming through the ter'angreal. The Eelfinn, on the other hand, get to demand a price.

I see. So this was their price for the wishes they granted to Lanfear and Moiraine? Did Lanny not know of the dangers? And what were Moiraine's three wishes? To be let out alive was one, I presume?

Mat asked her what her other two wishes were, and she said she was going to keep them to herself for now. As to whether Lanfear knew the dangers....dunno.

 

Oh, and Terez... Since so much of the Egwene Rand meeting has been revealed already, I was wondering what your take on it was. Do you think Rand acted the way he did just so Egwene would unite everyone when he needed them a month later?

He implies as much, but I think there is more going on.

[GuyangMao]

since it seems the secret of messann=dellane do we find out how she was able to defeat the oath rod?

No. Some suggestions are offered by the Hunters before they take her, but we don't learn how she managed it because her mind is destroyed.

 

Any of those suggestions more detailed/plausible than the others?

[Diederichos]

Who returned to Bandar Eban, assuming that it was literal, and what did Ituralde do?

[Beren]

Daughter of the Night, she walks again.

The ancient war, she yet fights.

Her new lover she seeks, who shall serve her and die, yet serve still.

Who shall stand against her coming?

The Shining Walls shall kneel.

Blood feeds blood.

Blood calls blood.

Blood is, and blood was, and blood shall ever be.

 

------

This certainly refers to Lanfear. The interesting thing in this is the part about Rand, assuming that he is the new lover she seeks. It says that he will server her and die, yet serve still. It also seems to imply that she will have something to do with destruction at the White Tower. Now, seeing how things have turned out between Egwene and Rand, will she try to hold him back from destroying the seals? Is it possible that Lanfear will actually need to rescue him from The White Tower?

------

 

 

The man who channels stands alone.

He gives his friends for sacrifice.

Two roads before him, one to death beyond dying, one to life eternal.

Which will he choose? Which will he choose?

What hand shelters? What hand slays?

(refrain)

 

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I think this refers to Ishamael. Here is my reasoning. This is a prophecy of the Shadow. Thus, would it not be prophesying about those following the Shadow? Ishamael has certainly been sacrificing the other Forsaken in order to get what he needs. I think this refers to the final sealing of the DO's prison. I think that Ishamael will be the one who holds back the Dark One using the True Power while Rand and two women remake the prison. The roads refer to the path he chooses at the end. He can choose to hold the DO back with the True Power and be sealed away with him forever inside the prison (death beyond dying) or to let the Dragon fail again and continue fighting the Dragon over and over (life eternal). Depending on his choice, he will either shelter the Dragon or slay him.

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Luc came to the Mountains of Dhoom.

Isam waited in the high passes.

The hunt is now begun. The Shadow's hounds now course, and kill.

One did live, and one did die, but both are.

The Time of Change has come.

(refrain)

 

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Here we have Slayer. We still don't know all about him. This prophecy came true when Rand was not consumed by the darkness at the end of the last book. We see Perrin watching him on the mountain in ToM and when Rand repels the darkness, the wolves all say that the last hunt has begun. The time of Change has come refers to what we see in the normal world where things keep changing, whole towns now appearing and disappearing.

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The Watchers wait on Toman's Head.

The seed of the Hammer burns the ancient tree.

Death shall sow, and summer burn, before the Great Lord comes.

Death shall reap, and bodies fail, before the Great Lord comes.

Again the seed slays ancient wrong, before the Great Lord comes.

Now the Great Lord comes.

 

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This I am taking line by line.

1) This refers to the Seanchan arriving

2) The Seanchan taking Almoth Plain? Supposedly, the nation of Almoth had a cutting of the Tree of Life.

3) This refers to the battle in the skies over Falme. Rand was given the wound and death sowed. After this, we see the ridiculous summer, I think due to Rand's wound and the fact that the land is becoming one with the Dragon.

4) This is when everything begins spoiling and people begin to have their bodies just rot away or turn to dust. This happens because of the Darkness in Rand.

5) Seanchan taking The White Tower? This would fit with a prophecy of the shadow. To them, The White Tower would be an ancient wrong.

6) This, I think shows that the above things must happen before the DO can be released.

 

 

 

 

I am most unsure about this last section, but I think that people have the part about "man who channels" completely off.

 

 

-----

 

Lo, it shall come upon the world that the prison of the Greatest One shall grow weak, like the limbs of those who crafted it. Once again, His glorious cloak shall smother the Pattern of all things, and the Great Lord shall stretch forth His hand to claim what is His. The rebellious nations shall be laid barren, their children caused to weep. There shall be none but Him, and those who have turned their eyes to His majesty.

 

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Seems pretty obvious

-----

 

In that day, when the One-Eyed Fool travels the halls of mourning, and the First Among Vermin lifts his hand to bring freedom to Him who will Destroy, the last days of the Fallen Blacksmith's pride shall come. Yea, and the Broken Wolf, the one whom Death has known, shall fall and be consumed by the Midnight Towers. And his destruction shall bring fear and sorrow to the hearts of men, and shall shake their very will itself.

 

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One-Eyed Fool is Mat. I am guessing that the halls of mourning might refer to Finnland.

First among Vermin seems like Fain. Here you go all you Fain lovers, he is in the prophecies. He will lift his hand to kill Rand and let the DO free.

The Fallen Blacksmith, in my mind, must be Perrin. The Broken Wolf seems to be Ishamael, who is also known as Heartfang. I believe that it was he who created the Darkhounds. He is now called Moridin thus the part about "the one whom Death has known. I think the last bit about Ishamael means that he will die, but that it will be at the hand of his allies. I think this will cause some sort of problem as I think he will turn back to help the Light. (see my theory on sealing the DO away)

-------

 

And then, shall the Lord of the Evening come. And He shall take our eyes, for our souls shall bow before Him, and He shall take our skin, for our flesh shall serve Him, and He shall take our lips, for only Him will we praise. And the Lord of the Evening shall face the Broken Champion, and shall spill his blood and bring us the Darkness so beautiful. Let the screams begin, O followers of the Shadow. Beg for your destruction!

 

-from The Prophecies of the Shadow

 

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The last bit talks about the final triumph of the Light. The Lord of Evening will come and spill the blood of the Dragon, who will be the Broken Champion because his other half, Moridin/Ishamael, will have been killed. The spilling of the blood will complete the seal and the souls of those who server the DO will be sealed away with him in Darkness forever. They will beg for their destruction. I think this prophecy is actually one that favors the light... Strange, but it seems possible.

 

 

Also, I think this thing deserves a thread of its own once the book comes out on Nov. 2 and this place is opened up to allow people to post threads. I will do a reposting then along with any other pertinent information discussed here.

[fionwe1987]

An important not about these Shadow prophesies:

 

Verin specifically tells Egwene that her book contains the Prophesies the DF believe. So however confident Moridin is of their safety, it is likely that Egwene knows some of them at least. Certainly the blood call blood one, which even Siuan knows.

 

Which brings up an interesting question: Is the Shadow aware of Verin's betrayal? Do they know how thoroughly she screwed them over?

[gambril]

Nvm! Delete post preaze.

[kingoftonga86]

Nice spoilers, all.

 

What happens to Mat in Finnland? What sort of deal does he make? Do the two Aes Sedai on the balance scale or the loss of an eye ever come up?

[fionwe1987]

Here's a new question:

 

How do the Seanchan react to Egwene's defense at the Tower? Are they freaked? Or do they know of sa'angreal?