A couple o things

[Erelvar]

First and foremost i just want to say thank you to everyone on this site. This is THE best website that i have come across supporting TWOT series. Every one here has not only shown remarkable insights into the series but has made me feel welcomed into this great community. So thank you everyone here!!!

 

Now with that said, i would like to get everyone thoughts on something. In Knife of Dreams, twice the world "shimmers." It flux's in a set of three. Faile and Perrin both experience it as well as the Seanchan. Any idea on what this is that caused this? I just finished it and i don't remember it saying, or if anyone outside of those people experience it. If they do, no one makes any mention of it. Or at least not that i read.

 

The last thing i'm wondering is this. Taim, the M'hael, he has to be one of the forsaken. His last words to the Red Ajah that comes to bond Ash'man were "Let the Lord of Chaos rule." I know that seems to be the battle cry of the forsaken. Who do you think he is?

 

Again thanks everyone for your comments and your welcome to this, the BEST site ever!

[Jblaylock]

First and foremost i just want to say thank you to everyone on this site. This is THE best website that i have come across supporting TWOT series. Every one here has not only shown remarkable insights into the series but has made me feel welcomed into this great community. So thank you everyone here!!!

 

Now with that said, i would like to get everyone thoughts on something. In Knife of Dreams, twice the world "shimmers." It flux's in a set of three. Faile and Perrin both experience it as well as the Seanchan. Any idea on what this is that caused this? I just finished it and i don't remember it saying, or if anyone outside of those people experience it. If they do, no one makes any mention of it. Or at least not that i read.

 

The last thing i'm wondering is this. Taim, the M'hael, he has to be one of the forsaken. His last words to the Red Ajah that comes to bond Ash'man were "Let the Lord of Chaos rule." I know that seems to be the battle cry of the forsaken. Who do you think he is?

 

Again thanks everyone for your comments and your welcome to this, the BEST site ever!

 

 

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black. If he's using the One Power to disguise himself, Rand would see it. But, Moridin uses the True Power, which Rand would not see.

[Erelvar]

The only thing though that i have to say to that is, what about the "saia" that goes across the eyes of who ever uses the TP?

[Sid]

My personal belief is that he is not one of the 13 Forsaken originally bound, but was trained by Ishamael in the years before the rest of the Forsaken were let loose. That view is obviously not shared by some other people on this board, but meh.

 

 

If he was actually Moridin, then Taim would have to be disguised somehow since Rand has met both and didn't see a resemblance.

[didymos]

The shimmer thing: as a guess, I'd say the Pattern is, for lack of a better term, wigging out due to the Dark One's touch being stronger. It's in the same general category as all the ghost weirdness and the bubbles of evil.

[didymos]

The only thing though that i have to say to that is, what about the "saia" that goes across the eyes of who ever uses the TP?

 

I don't buy the Taim=Moridin thing myself, but you could always use a minor Mask Of Mirrors to hide the saa. Well, probably. If Moridin is playing Taim, he'd have to be using one anyway: Rand has seen Moridin more than once now, and I think he'd be all "Hey...you're Taim dude!" if they looked the same.

[haloun]

i have been thinking about the shimmer thing to. and for a bit there i thought it from rand balefiring natins barrow in TGS but i just reread KOD, and shortly thereafter perrin sees rand missing his left hand. could it be the whole dragon tied to the land thing?

[Erelvar]

with the Mirror thing though that you were talking about he could just change his appearance and invert the weave. since he knows that Taim can channel he doesn't have to worry about masking his ability. I'm not saying that he is, just wondering that's all.... lol. it will proably get worked out here in the next book or two.

 

 

If its the pattern reshaping itself, then how come its only around perrin and faile that it happens? i didn't see anything else in any of the books where it looked like someone else other than those two, and those around them, that notices it.76

[didymos]

My personal belief is that he is not one of the 13 Forsaken originally bound, but was trained by Ishamael in the years before the rest of the Forsaken were let loose. That view is obviously not shared by some other people on this board, but meh.

 

Another possibility, and not a mutually exclusive one, is that the DO took a liking to him and decided to promote him to full Forsaken status. If you look at what RJ said at signings (especially the Budapest one) becoming a Forsaken is mainly a matter of being taken to Shayol Ghul and swearing the oaths to the Shadow in the Pit Of Doom itself, at which point the DO grants you the ability that allows you to command Shadowspawn, and, before Moridin was named Nae'blis, access to the TP. Anyway, if that happened, I could see the DO not bothering to tell the other, AoL Forsaken. He keeps a lot of things to himself.

[didymos]

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black.

 

Moridin also makes his, uh, "vassals" wear his colors. Could be an indication that he's Taim's patron. That or red and black together are traditional colors of EVIL.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I am in the camp of Taim just being Taim. Moridin is gathering the Blight for War (tGS prologue) and he doesnt leave the blight much anymore. the other Forsaken are accounted for except Demandred, who ISNT Taim. It is hard for him to be Taim in that case. Also, with Rand connected to him and seeing Moridin's face all the time, I dont think its likely he could disguse it. But the thing is, it IS possible, so cant be ruled out. Its a big RAFO.

 

But my thoughts are, for what they are worth, Taim is Taim, a Dreadlord who takes orders from Demandred. (Let the Lord of Chaos Rule)

 

As for the shimmer. That is quite strange. I think we will be seeing more about it. Personally, I think it is, as others suggest, the pattern straining under the DO's touch. What with all of the crazy stuff thats happening. ghosts and hinderstap etc.. It is likely a sign of the pattern being unravlled by the DO.

 

Although an interesting point possibly, it is similar to the effects of Balefire with the pattern being distorted and then snapping back.

[yoniy0]

It's actually not that similar. I tried once to construct a theory based on the fact that the DO asked Demandred to use BF, and I thought I could use those instances to pinpoint Demandred's location. Didn't work, and mainly because the effects' descriptions vary considerably.

[Barid Bel Medar]

It's actually not that similar. I tried once to construct a theory based on the fact that the DO asked Demandred to use BF, and I thought I could use those instances to pinpoint Demandred's location. Didn't work, and mainly because the effects' descriptions vary considerably.

 

To be perfectly honest, I cant even remember the scene. I know about it, but not the description etc. I havent got the book with me at the moment and havent read it in some time. I just brought the "similarity" up as both were some random warp in the pattern, and hoped to spark a discussion about it, all the while everyone would thihnk I was super smart for noticing it :biggrin:

 

Nice way to ruin it hahaha.

 

But yeah, thanks for the clarification.

[yoniy0]

You're very welcomed. Ruining things is my favorite pastime ever!

[FarShainMael]

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black.

 

Moridin also makes his, uh, "vassals" wear his colors. Could be an indication that he's Taim's patron. That or red and black together are traditional colors of EVIL.

 

Hmm.. This one's been bothering me for a while..

 

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

[Lynchgrinch]

This site IS great aint it?

 

I dunno about the "shimmering" thing, probably just some sort of emphasis on the DO touch on the pattern.

 

As for, Taim= One of the forsaken...

 

Nope, i don't buy it.

 

Taim is one of the most interesting characters in the WoT, it would be annoying if he was one of The Forsaken.

 

We know For a Fact that he cant be Demandred, even though that was as good a guess as any before RJ told us otherwise.

 

Taim=Moridin does not add up propperly either. There would be evidence, we've seen no saa or anything that realy "hints" at this being true.

The closest peice of evedence we have is that passage in WH about the room "darkening" when Taim enters. This started happening in a simmilar way after Rand went mental in "the last thing that could be done". But i don't think the two fit well in my head.

 

Taim is a much more interesting and complex character than we trade him off to be sometimes, i recon.

[NetSlider]

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black.

 

Moridin also makes his, uh, "vassals" wear his colors. Could be an indication that he's Taim's patron. That or red and black together are traditional colors of EVIL.

 

Hmm.. This one's been bothering me for a while..

 

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

Good point regarding "red on black" reference. I never really put these together as colors and not representation of blood on rocks. I wonder is there is more to the prophecy than the obvious.....this needs more thought.

 

What are these fluxes? Does any one has a reference to a chapter in question?

[Erelvar]

Good point regarding "red on black" reference. I never really put these together as colors and not representation of blood on rocks. I wonder is there is more to the prophecy than the obvious.....this needs more thought.

 

What are these fluxes? Does any one has a reference to a chapter in question?

 

This post has been edited by NetSlider: Today, 12:51 PM

 

 

 

 

its from knife of dreams, i can't tell the chapter off hand, but the first time it shows is when Faile is talking to one of the wise one's in Meridaian. The second time it shows is when Perrin and Tylee of the seanchan are talking making arrangments for forkroot tea. sorry i can't tell you the chapters off hand.

 

what about the connection between moridin and rand? do you think that because the Bailfire touched it created a physical link as well as a mental link? I ask only because after what Semirhage did to rand at the end of knife of dreams, Moridin and said to flex his LEFT hand in the prologue of the gathering storm.

 

the other thing that has always kinda been a bug in my head is this. in one of the books, i don't remember which off hand, sorry. But it is at the end of a chapter. It has Moridin playing a game with one of the other forsaken i believe, and he picks up the piece called the "Fisher". The book then describes the figure as clutching his side as if wounded and blindfolded.... It's Rand!! At least i believe it is. But it says that the "Fisher" is always portrayed as such, and i think it even says "in this or any age" though dont quote me on that.

 

What's everyones thoughts on that?

[Duskfire]

the other thing that has always kinda been a bug in my head is this. in one of the books, i don't remember which off hand, sorry. But it is at the end of a chapter. It has Moridin playing a game with one of the other forsaken i believe, and he picks up the piece called the "Fisher". The book then describes the figure as clutching his side as if wounded and blindfolded.... It's Rand!! At least i believe it is. But it says that the "Fisher" is always portrayed as such, and i think it even says "in this or any age" though dont quote me on that.

 

What's everyones thoughts on that?

 

He was playing against himself :P But I see the Fisher as based on Rand and its one of those legends and myths that successfully gets around. The Board game itself is definetly an analogue for the fight between the Shadow and the Light.

[FarShainMael]

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black.

 

Moridin also makes his, uh, "vassals" wear his colors. Could be an indication that he's Taim's patron. That or red and black together are traditional colors of EVIL.

 

Hmm.. This one's been bothering me for a while..

 

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

Good point regarding "red on black" reference. I never really put these together as colors and not representation of blood on rocks. I wonder is there is more to the prophecy than the obvious.....this needs more thought.

 

On another thread, someone has noted that the Heroes Calian and Shivan, brother and sister, appeared masked at Falme when the Horn sounded, as recalled by Mat in aCoS21 when he recognises Birgitte. Calian's mask is red; Shivan's is black.

 

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2009/03/horn-of-valere.html

 

Shivan is 'herald of the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be'.

 

It has further been suggested that 'the Dragon's blood' may refer to his progeny.. and that Elayne's twins by Rand may turn out to be Calian and Shivan!

 

Actually I don't think I believe what that seems to suggest. For one thing, barring some really serious time-compression in T'A'R, Elayne's twins aren't even going to be born in time for TG, far less be grown enough to take an active part.

 

One more red/black reference to go in the pot..

 

The AS symbol is a mandala, part black for the male half, part white for the female. The 'Banner of Light' raised by Taim at DW (LoC55) had both of these back together on a red background. What's the betting Taim's own BT banner will be a black 'Dragon's Fang' on a red background?

[NetSlider]

Maybe he is Moridin, since they both like Red and Black.

 

Moridin also makes his, uh, "vassals" wear his colors. Could be an indication that he's Taim's patron. That or red and black together are traditional colors of EVIL.

 

Hmm.. This one's been bothering me for a while..

 

Red on black, the Dragon's blood stains the rock of Shayol Ghul.

In the Pit of Doom shall his blood free men from the Shadow."

 

Good point regarding "red on black" reference. I never really put these together as colors and not representation of blood on rocks. I wonder is there is more to the prophecy than the obvious.....this needs more thought.

 

On another thread, someone has noted that the Heroes Calian and Shivan, brother and sister, appeared masked at Falme when the Horn sounded, as recalled by Mat in aCoS21 when he recognises Birgitte. Calian's mask is red; Shivan's is black.

 

http://13depository....-of-valere.html

 

Shivan is 'herald of the end of Ages, the destruction of what had been and the birth of what was to be'.

 

It has further been suggested that 'the Dragon's blood' may refer to his progeny.. and that Elayne's twins by Rand may turn out to be Calian and Shivan!

 

Actually I don't think I believe what that seems to suggest. For one thing, barring some really serious time-compression in T'A'R, Elayne's twins aren't even going to be born in time for TG, far less be grown enough to take an active part.

 

One more red/black reference to go in the pot..

 

The AS symbol is a mandala, part black for the male half, part white for the female. The 'Banner of Light' raised by Taim at DW (LoC55) had both of these back together on a red background. What's the betting Taim's own BT banner will be a black 'Dragon's Fang' on a red background?

Actually, Calian and Shivan being the twins, I like that idea and I totally can see it fitting with my vision for the after LB story (with Oliver in middle). Unless that ugly kid is DF