Discuss Jason's Proper Review

[Luckers]

Once again we are asking you to be comsiderate and not post things from the accident.

 

:)

[thehamster]

Excellent review again Jason. Well done!

[The Desert Pea]

I can't help but worry for Olver now, and not in an "Oh crap he might die" sort of way. It's in more of an "Oh crap, something horrible is going to happen to Olver that's worse than death" sort of way.

[Aiyen kin Leary]

Beautiful review, and it sounds like TOM is going to be exactly what I'd hoped-a sweeping climax that covers the HUGE scope of this world complete with powerful scenes and unpredictable twists that manage to fit right into the story's arc. Can't wait for November! :-)

[seasnake]

I'm dreaming that by the end of ToM everyone will be at the same timeline with their personal challenges resolved to a point that we can no go and fight the last battle. I'm glad that this book has a lot of Perrin because he needs something big to get him to where he needs to be.

[TheBeerPatriot]

I'm dreaming that by the end of ToM everyone will be at the same timeline with their personal challenges resolved to a point that we can no go and fight the last battle. I'm glad that this book has a lot of Perrin because he needs something big to get him to where he needs to be.

I had thought all along leading up to ToM that Mat had the most to do in this book, but clearly Perrin has just as much to do-and probably more.

 

I wonder about Olver's fate too. I have to admit that I've never paid close attention to his character, but that will change as I try to finish my re-read by 11/2.

 

And of course, I'm most excited about the Moiraine arc. Between Leigh Butler's review and Jason's, it sounds like this plot will meet expectations-which is hard, considering we've been waiting for 15 years!

 

Bring on 11/2 and Towers of Midnight!

[Luckers]

I can't help but worry for Olver now, and not in an "Oh crap he might die" sort of way. It's in more of an "Oh crap, something horrible is going to happen to Olver that's worse than death" sort of way.

 

I don't think death either--but what about it happening because of Olver, instead of to him? I'm thinking here about the chance Olver will follow Mat and co. into the Tower of Ghenjei, thus violating Moiraine's stricture about there being nor more or less than the three she set out. Jason did say it was 'both endearing and tragic.' Olver trying to help could be endearing--and it would be tragic.

[Barid Bel Medar]

I can't help but worry for Olver now, and not in an "Oh crap he might die" sort of way. It's in more of an "Oh crap, something horrible is going to happen to Olver that's worse than death" sort of way.

 

I don't think death either--but what about it happening because of Olver, instead of to him? I'm thinking here about the chance Olver will follow Mat and co. into the Tower of Ghenjei, thus violating Moiraine's stricture about there being nor more or less than the three she set out. Jason did say it was 'both endearing and tragic.' Olver trying to help could be endearing--and it would be tragic.

 

Jason also said "some would think it humorous". I dont think him messing up the ToG and possibly killing one of Mat's compainions would be funny to ANYONE. Although, of course, we dont know the exact context this is in, so its possible.

 

I do like the idea that Olver will try to help and mess it up somehow, but the way i read that part of Jason's review, it seemed to be something a little less physically disasterous, but still devistating on an emotional level (if that makes sense).

 

Also, I think the comment about "long term effects of the pattern" (ripples or somehtin, i cant recall the exact wording) might be an indication that Mat being nice and taking Olver in put them all in danger, and that it would be beter if he had been left to die. (This would tie into the ToG sneak in)

[Luckers]

I can't help but worry for Olver now, and not in an "Oh crap he might die" sort of way. It's in more of an "Oh crap, something horrible is going to happen to Olver that's worse than death" sort of way.

 

I don't think death either--but what about it happening because of Olver, instead of to him? I'm thinking here about the chance Olver will follow Mat and co. into the Tower of Ghenjei, thus violating Moiraine's stricture about there being nor more or less than the three she set out. Jason did say it was 'both endearing and tragic.' Olver trying to help could be endearing--and it would be tragic.

 

Jason also said "some would think it humorous". I dont think him messing up the ToG and possibly killing one of Mat's compainions would be funny to ANYONE. Although, of course, we dont know the exact context this is in, so its possible.

 

I do like the idea that Olver will try to help and mess it up somehow, but the way i read that part of Jason's review, it seemed to be something a little less physically disasterous, but still devistating on an emotional level (if that makes sense).

 

Also, I think the comment about "long term effects of the pattern" (ripples or somehtin, i cant recall the exact wording) might be an indication that Mat being nice and taking Olver in put them all in danger, and that it would be beter if he had been left to die. (This would tie into the ToG sneak in)

 

I was thinking maybe this would be the reason Mat gives up his eye. As a price to fix what Olver does.

 

As for humour, I doubt the tragic part of it will be humorous, but maybe the lead up.

 

Mat: Oh, Olver you incorrigeable rapscallion. If only you would do as you were told, like I did when I was young.

 

Moiraine: Say what now?

[Vambram]

Perhaps the tragedy for Olver is that when the others escape,Olver helps them, and somehow he either willingly or unwillingly gets trapped behind and/or forced by the 'finns to remain there in the 'finnland?

[ejshell]

I'm definitely excited for this book to come out, I hope nothing is too bad with this Olver situation and maybe it's just something as simple as Mat realizing how much he means to Olver as a result of something Olver tells him before he sets off to the ToG or something. Mat hasn't had quite as many bad things happen to him over the course of the series as Rand and Perrin have, so I certainly hope it is more tragic with regards to the emotional standpoint than anything else. I'm really excited for Mat in this book, he has been my favorite character to read since TDR and from the preview chapter it seems like his character is back to his old self again, which is good because I absolutely loved Mat in KOD. Also, his solving the issue with the Gholam in Caemlyn and the ToG plotline should be fantastic.

 

It will be good to see Perrin get to do something that actually matters in the grand scheme. For all his failings in the previous few books he did ally himself with a promising Seanchan officer and effectively put an end to the Shaido. If he can manage to get the Whitecloaks on his side (which seems likely), make further progress with Tylee (could happen) and kill Slayer in this book that would go a long ways in terms of making his character awesome again, like he was back in The Shadow Rising. Hopefully we get some resolution on his internal wolf conflict as well.

 

As much as I loved TGH, TDR and TGS with their tight focuses, I personally enjoyed some of the more spread out novels even better (tSR, LoC and KOD in particular). As with most people I didn't really enjoy CoT, but that mostly had to do with the fact that it was so Elayne, Perrin/Faile, and Egwene (before she started being awesome in the White Tower) focused. I love how much work has been put into the series and the scope of how large everything is and how it all fits together, so I'm excited that this book has a much larger world view than TGS, it might not be as fast of a read but I don't think I'll like it any less.

[dwn]

The Olver thing could also be the fallout of Mat leaving him behind when heading out to rescue Moiraine. From Olver's point of view that'd almost be like being abandoned by his father.

 

I actually enjoyed the Perrin and Elayne story arcs (well, on subsequent readings), so I'm glad we'll be getting back to them. Really, a gathering of Perrin, Mat, Berelain, Galad, Elayne, Morgase, Thom and Moiraine has a truly special potential for awesome. Throw in a tilt-a-whirl and we've got ourselves a sideshow.

 

-- dwn

[Random Man]

Awesome. The most awesome awesomeness from the Land of Awesome's awesome uncle named Bob.

 

Also I got the distinct impression that we won't really like this book. Not that it's written poorly, but that the plot elements that play out won't be to our liking. Much like how Leigh said in TGS that "The Last that Could be Done" was to be hated. Not because it was written poorly, but because it had been written to be exactly as awful as it was supposed to. Makes me think ToM is the darkest hour before sunrise. It's "The Empire Strikes Back" to to the later "Return of the Jedi."

 

EDIT: P.S.: Mat's back. Lots of Mat. YEAH! Toss these dice, goatkissers!

[Musenge_09]

Re-reading the review (which was excellent btw - congratulations Jason on writing a considered and informative piece that manages to give almost nothing away yet leaves me feeling even more like I'm seven years old again and Christmas just can't come fast enough), I think the Olver thing isn't necessarily that massive - such as his being the cause of a major character's death, for example. Jason writes, "Now maybe it's just me". This sort of says to me that whatever it is is a pretty subjective thing and that it maybe isn't something that other readers will see as significantly tragic. "Most people might find humour in it" is another thing Jason writes. So it is probably something that is intended as being humorous, but it's just that Jason read it another way.

 

I personally think Jason might even be playing with us a little bit. Could it be that it is something like Olver losing a large part of his innocence? Ie, being forced to kill a bad guy or - oh, hang on - getting an eyeful of something or someONE he shouldn't. Jason does write that the chapter contains "a big reveal". Could that so-called "reveal" be a reveal of an Adults-Only kind, and part of the potential humour of the situation, perhaps involving something like Olver being caught spying on Birgitte having a bath (in the five minutes a day the tub is not being used by Elayne)? That could be something that is "both endearing and tragic", in that young Olver's growing up, innocence lost, boys will be boys etc. Mat of course will cop the major part of the blame, given his status as a role-model for the boy - cue exchange between Mat and Elayne:

 

Mat: "Me? What have I got to do with it? Blood and bloody ashes, I've never shown anything but respect to bloody women and this is the thanks I get!?"

Elayne: *sniffs* and glares at Birgitte. The bond was showing amusement. Amusement!? What in the light did the woman find amusing about this rogue?

 

So it's maybe not massively "tragic", but Jason did stress that this was his personal interpretation and that others might not see it that way.

[Stevros]

I personally think Jason might even be playing with us a little bit. Could it be that it is something like Olver losing a large part of his innocence? Ie, being forced to kill a bad guy or - oh, hang on - getting an eyeful of something or someONE he shouldn't. Jason does write that the chapter contains "a big reveal". Could that so-called "reveal" be a reveal of an Adults-Only kind, and part of the potential humour of the situation, perhaps involving something like Olver being caught spying on Birgitte having a bath (in the five minutes a day the tub is not being used by Elayne)? That could be something that is "both endearing and tragic", in that young Olver's growing up, innocence lost, boys will be boys etc. Mat of course will cop the major part of the blame, given his status as a role-model for the boy - cue exchange between Mat and Elayne:

 

I think you might be right. Lets remember that his TGS review awesome though it was was, also toyed with us...

 

 

Awesome review btw!!!!!!

[GB]

Great review, gholam and verin letter anyone as not having to do with her?

[Lynchgrinch]

Brillliant review, i need this book now though!!

 

I'm realy looking foreward to seeing more of Perrin he needs a big focus to get him up to shape with current events. ie tell faile to Piss off.

 

Everyone loves Mat ofc and i can't wait to start reading about him!

 

Olver has got me worried too :(

 

But the highlight for me, like most, is gonna be Moiraine.

The excitement is unreal just even thinking about it!!

 

I've only been in WoT mania for 5-6 years, i DREAD to be in the shoes of those Moiraine diehards that have been waiting for this since tFoH 15 years ago!

[Corvinus]

Based on Jason's awesome review, I most definitely think that the part about Mat having to give up half of the light of the world to save the world will happen in this book.

[Lambada]

Well this sequence I'm talking about proves that even victory can be disaster. It shows that even the most noble of intentions can have a butterfly-effect ripple across the Pattern.

 

To me this is referring to the ripples from the cleansing of saidin, and that the ripples are going to be bad.

 

My first thought on reading this was that saidar is going to get tainted (If some of the taint leached from saidin onto the saidar tube....). This could explain why the saidar wards against rats, and the Keeping ward, are failing.

[TreeJoe]

Mat, as one of the 3 primary characters of this story, has been far shortchanged on total storytime. I'm ready for some massive amount of make-up :)

 

As for Perrin, in tDR he has a dream that he is wearing some really nice armor and a lion-head worked helmet. And a plain axe, which he says "he knows he would choose it everytime, had worn it in thousands of battles." Similarly, Min says that when she views Perrin all she sees is violence.

 

I can't wait for Perrin to find peace with his need to do violence; it's going to be needed.

[Decius]

Personally, I think the combined damage caused by balefire use and the TP is causing the Pattern to thin out - straining it. The effects of this may be subtle or obvious, but my pet theory is that the Pattern will at some point refocus away from the ta'veren, probably on Logain. Logain would stand in as the Dragon for a while, but he'd die and after 3 days the Pattern will refocus on to Rand again. It could also be something planned, with Alivia hiding Rand/masking his bonds for a couple of days and having everybody believe he is dead for some unknown reason.

[MagnusDahlerNorling]

I kind of like that Ituralde will recieve focus. Otherwise all of his previous chapters would seem like such a waste. And he is kind of awesome. Sometimes I think I like all of the sidestories in this series better than the main plotlines. The sidestories are so good at fleshing out the world and they are often very well written, and serve as small novellas on their own. The attack on the borderlands pov in the prologue for instance was one of my favorite chapters of the series so far.

[EvelynneWeakley]

The Olver thing - could it be a simple as the loss of his innocence? It's been said a couple of times, he's too innocent to accept that the only way to win at Snakes and Foxes is to cheat. If well written, that could be both tragic and endearing. Or maybe I'm just clutching at straws because I don't want anything bad to happen to him!

[nwash_10]

Like everyone else, I'm curious about Olver. Jason said it would be something that we should have seen coming but wouldn't. I don't know why but I think it's going to have to do with Mat sending Olver away. I mean, he is a kid. Did we really expect him to ride to the last battle with Mat? Maybe before Mat goes to the ToG he has Elayne make a gateway to the TWo Rivers and drops Olver off with Abell. I could easily see that scene being humorous to some but ultimately tragic.

 

And I agree that the ripple comment has to do with the affect the cleansing of the taint is having on the world. I could see it referrng to the Balescream but think the cleansing is more likely because the cleansing of the taint was done with good intentions before rand was a complete pyscho.

[Decius]

Anybody think that the cleansing of the taint might have empowered Fain, somehow? He seems to have a sort of connection to Shadar Logoth, and from the prologue he's very much more powerful than he was last time we saw him. Perhaps he returned and absorbed the taint (it might like him as much as machin shin)? Or absorbed the remnants of Shadar Logoth's power?