The Scent of Blood

[Random Man]

Voted Lopin, though the most interesting answer would probably be Tomas.

 

The more I think about it, the more I like Tomas. Verin originally wanted Mat's oath that he would follow it if she couldn't tend to it herself. She didn't realise he wouldn't promise without knowing what it contained (we see her realise this), which left her in something of a bind. She still hoped to be able to deal with it herself, but she'd likely want to ensure that it would be dealt with should she not be able to.

 

So she leaves Tomas behind with instructions to push should it become apparent that she die--by which I mean, should she not return from the tower.

 

We know she's dead at this point, it would be precisely when she'd want someone to begin to push Mat to open the letter.

Okay, but Verin's not dead yet at this point in Mat's timeline. In fact, she won't be dead for probably another 15 to 20 days. So why would Tomas show up now?

 

Yes, she is. I don't know what's up specifically with the timelines, but the rumours are too specific. The attack on the White Tower has occured and that means Verin is dead. And yes, I have read Brandon's comments about the timeline and the rumours. Whatever aspects of the rumours aren't correct, it is still after the attack on the the Tower.

I may have been a little hasty on that last post because I suggested earlier that Brandon never gave a straight answer on the timelines except to say that there wasn't anything wrong with it even though his statement appears to conflict with his earlier 30 day statement. If - and only if - there's either something wrong with Time in the plot, or Brandon misspoke on the earlier 30-day comment (which doesn't look likely as he said later that Mat was supposed to be portrayed as two weeks behind where some part of TGS made him appear to be) then Verin is dead and it could be Tomas in the tent. Otherwise she isn't dead yet.

 

EDIT: Baletickle, just to clarify as it seems you aren't familiar with the relevant quotes, shortly after release of TGS Brandon said Verin killed herself 30 days after she transported Mat to Caemlyn (and stressed the 30-day remark). Then two weeks ago he said there wasn't anything wrong with the timeline in "The Seven-Striped Lass" and that rumors are just rumors. You should be able to find the relevant quotes on the Seven-striped Lass thread.

[Lynchgrinch]

Random nameless character i recon. not an important death but just enough to get the whole camp in an uproar and then a tasty ghloam fight scene in which mat finaly beasts it into a bloody pulp.

 

[Cut Strand]

Could it be the gholam? Maybe it got food poisoning and had to puke?

[Morsker]

How bad is it that I have no idea who Lopin is?

[dwn]

How bad is it that I have no idea who Lopin is?

 

Lopin was Nalasean's manservant, who Mat took on after Nalasean was killed by the Gholam in Ebou Dar.

 

Although I admit it's quite likely to be Lopin, I do hope that isn't the case. Lopin (and Nerim) are great minor characters. Lopin's also been helping take care of Olver, so wow would that suck.

 

 

-- dwn

[Hotncold]

I vote for Olver. Remember Mat is the general of this entire army, random people are not just going to waltz into his tent while he's not there. I think its either Lopin or Olver based upon who's able to enter and leave Mat's tent at will without having the whole flaming band wanting to know what they're doing going into Prince Mat's tent. But I voted for Olver because we need some sadness in this book. Who really gives a rats hind end if Lopin gets killed? But if Olver gets killed, well that's pretty big. Yea, even though he's probably not going to save the world or anything, anyone who has read the books has to love the kid around 8 or 10 years old who is without a doubt the ugliest man child anyone's ever laid eyes on. Funny how he's always laying that ugly mug against some impressive bosum though. You gotta love that kid, and that kid just died.

 

The gholum killed a half dozen redarms. That made Mat angry. The gholum killed Tylin after Mat had tied her up in her room. That made Mat furious. The gholum just killed Olver. That turns things up more than just a notch or two as far as Mat Cauthon is concerned.

[perrin51]

I voted other. I think it will be Lopin, making a nice hot blood pudding for his Lord to lunch upon.

[Khan]

Please be Elayne, please be Elayne, please be Elayne, please be Elayne. PLEASE BE ELAYNE... *ahem* Yes, I'd like it be Elayne.

[Cyf]

I voted Lopin, though I kind of hope it's Tomas. As others have stated, that'd be interesting.

[Shard]

Don't most warders go battle crazy and HAVE to be put down when they're Aes Sedai die? I know read somewhere several Warders having to be killed just because their Aes Sedai were killed. Why would Tomas be special enough NOT to go crazy like the other Warders do when their bond is broken? I thought the whole idea of Tomas taking poison was to prevent the deaths of innocents once Verin's poison killed her.

[Cyf]

Not ... exactly, no. At least as I recall. Warders whose Aes Sedai die try to die. Some waste away, some go to the Blight and die, some do other things. But the death of their AS, as far as I recall, doesn't lead to berserk rages in general. I could see some warders doing that to get themselves killed, though.

 

Tomas will probably die eventually if he didn't kill himself, though. Being a warden seems to change the body and losing the bond causes physical and mental changes.

[Shard]

From WoT Encyclopedia:

 

When they feel Careane die, the three Warders shout with rage and charge the house. (KoD,Ch32)

When he feels Vandene die, Jaem shouts with rage and charges the house. (KoD,Ch32)

 

Sounds like Battle Frenzy to me.

 

If you say they whipped themselves into that frenzy then that's a pathetic way to avenge their fallen Aes Sedai. I perfer to think they lost control of their senses due to the Bond being broken. Even Lan felt affects of it when it was transferred to Myrelle.

 

The breaking of the bond does seem to fill the Warder with Sucidal rage, though perhaps some of them are better at controlling it then others.

[Maji]

From WoT Encyclopedia:

 

When they feel Careane die, the three Warders shout with rage and charge the house. (KoD,Ch32)

When he feels Vandene die, Jaem shouts with rage and charges the house. (KoD,Ch32)

 

Sounds like Battle Frenzy to me.

 

If you say they whipped themselves into that frenzy then that's a pathetic way to avenge their fallen Aes Sedai. I perfer to think they lost control of their senses due to the Bond being broken. Even Lan felt affects of it when it was transferred to Myrelle.

 

The breaking of the bond does seem to fill the Warder with Sucidal rage, though perhaps some of them are better at controlling it then others.

 

This is always the explanation that I have used. It's like they just snap and go nuts, Lan is the perfect example when he seemed to be unable to control himself when he came to Myrelle when he was dueling her warders to help sooth him.

[perrin51]

Verin being Verin, what's to say she didn't release Tomas from the Bond before she offed herself? She rarely did things in a straight forward way. She was a very good planner and very nimble with those plans. Releasing Tomas makes more sense and would allow him spend his last hour with his family. If that is what he did.

[NetSlider]

.. and bloody ashes!

ROFLMAO

Genius!

It took a moment for me to understand, but yes, very good!

[Luckers]

Don't most warders go battle crazy and HAVE to be put down when they're Aes Sedai die? I know read somewhere several Warders having to be killed just because their Aes Sedai were killed. Why would Tomas be special enough NOT to go crazy like the other Warders do when their bond is broken? I thought the whole idea of Tomas taking poison was to prevent the deaths of innocents once Verin's poison killed her.

 

 

Because if Verin had missions for Tomas to commit should she die, she'd definately have released the bond. She'd likely have done so anyway on the off chance that she died slightly before Tomas did--I mean if he really was with his family before killing himself, he'd hardly want to go mad.

[Ashlyn]

My thinking goes like this:

 

1. If it's an important death, Aludra. It'll be a nice little boon for the Shadow if her dragons don't get built.

 

2. If it's random, other - specifically Vanin. Would be sad, but not catastrophic.

 

3. If the person isn't dead, Lopin or Nerim. Maybe someone just lightly maiming the servants to send a message?

[Sharaman]

It's Valan Luca of course. He'd just come to volunteer for ToG rescue duty but Cyndane walked in and chopped him up because she didn't want Lanfear to be discovered, hiding in the ToG.

Where is Dida by the way? I miss him.

[heliage]

Nah it can't be Olver. I still reckon Olver is Gaidal reborn, I'm pretty sure I read that Birgitte couldn't find Gaidal anymore in Tel'aran'rhiod(forget which book this was in). Secondly Birgitte always mentioned how ugly Gaidal had been when he was younger, and then they always say Olver is ugly as well. So Olver has to make it.

[Luckers]

Nah it can't be Olver. I still reckon Olver is Gaidal reborn, I'm pretty sure I read that Birgitte couldn't find Gaidal anymore in Tel'aran'rhiod(forget which book this was in). Secondly Birgitte always mentioned how ugly Gaidal had been when he was younger, and then they always say Olver is ugly as well. So Olver has to make it.

 

 

Olver is not Gaidal Cain. This has been confirmed time and again by Robert Jordan.

[Sid]

 

Olver is not Gaidal Cain. This has been confirmed time and again by Robert Jordan.

 

With the influx of new-to-the-board posters from ToM material appearing, perhaps we can make a 'theories debunked directly by RJ himself' sticky. Unless you have your above post bound to a keyboard macro, which wouldn't surprise me.

[Wantanswers]

Originally posted by Baletickle_to_da_face!

 

"News?” Mat said. “No, I’ve heard no news. Rumors though . . . I’ve a brainful of those. Some say the White Tower has been reunified, which is what you’re probably talking about. But I’ve also heard just as many claiming that it is still at war. And that the Amyrlin fought the Last Battle in Rand’s place, and that the Aes Sedai have decided to raise an army of soldiers by giving birth to them, and that flying monsters attacked the White Tower. That last one is probably just stories of raken drifting up from the south. But I think the one about Aes Sedai raising an army of babies holds some water.”

 

Unless you have some pretty strong, specific reason why Verin's death could not have occured yet, I would consider this nearly airtight.

You could have found those reasons in The Seven-Stripped Lass yourself:

 

Mat flipped a folded letter between two fingers of his right hand. That letter, on thick paper, was sealed with a glob of blood-red wax. He had been carrying it only a short time, but it was already a source of as much aggravation to him as any woman. Well, maybe not an Aes Sedai, but most any other woman. That was saying a lot.

 

Bloody ashes! If she did that, he would have to do what it said. Whatever it bloody said! All he had to do was wait a few weeks, and he would be free. He could wait that long. Really, he could

 

Mat will be free when he has burned Verin's letter and as we see here he will have to wait at least 2 weeks (20 days).

Verin will meet Egwene about 30 days after the meeting with Matt; so the raid will take place at least 20 days later. Sorry, but the rumours are just rumours. Only that rumour about that baby-army could be true because of an army of over 1000 children (novices)

 

I didn't answer this poll, because I'm not convinced now that:

a. this is a complete chapter

b. Mat will find a dead body