The Future of the A'dam

[Vardar]

Assuming Elayne cannot create some sort of uber Ter'angrael with Rand that in effect negates the effect of A'dams....

 

Personally I think I would just Still every Sul'dam I could get my hands on, as it would effectively destroy the seanchen damane army over night, and they would be forced to ask for help in rectifying it. Leanne and Suine could not control Moghedion whilst they were stilled...

 

Theres a thread debating whether a Sul'dam can be stilled. I'm pretty sure someone broke out an RJ quote, however given the descriptions of the difference between shielding and stilling in the series we are given by character POVs (Eggy, Ny, and Rand) we are led to believe stilling is the same weave as shielding, but with a sharper edge, thus if you can shield a Sul'dam (which has been done) you can still them.

 

Anyway, just wanted to toss that in, but what I really wanted to say was, damn man that's kinda mean! Just destroy all the Adam, and make them make more, why still all those people, kinda cruel.

[nolirion]

Well I share many of the opinion that had been stated on this thread you underestimate the sheer power of hypocrisy of the Damane system . To be clear I think the Only ethical use of an A'dam would be to restrain channeler criminal , but there is the oath road already , and the A'dam he is my view such a vile thing especially now that Egwene as found a way of hiding the leash . Imagine someone could modify it's appearance ?

Imagine the Moghedien situation reverse , do you find it impossible ?

 

As stated lurker the A'dam is doomed and all should but destroyed but one to be kept as a reminder of how vile it was . But it is doomed if the Seanchan recognize damane are not a lesser specie but their equal and not to be leashed if not nothing will change on the contrary thing would be bleaker .

Back to the subject when I talk of hypocrisy I talk about the reaction of sul'dam and of Fortunoa . Yes eventually if the word broke out that sul'dam are in fact able to channel just as the damane it would create trouble , but enough of it to destroy the whole system ?

 

Not a chance , I would make the analogy if you will of the taint on the Saïdin , now most of the important figure half believe that the taint is cleansed , not nearly all believe that . It is going to take year to convince the whole population , with the Sul'dam it is going to be the same and there would be what I call the Fortunoa hypocrisy .

 

So Fortunoa think because she choose not to learn to channel , she don't have the spark , she is different then a damane and in a way a viable Sul'dam , but excuse me to put it that way , it is crap , tell me of one Damane that had the choice , her new favorite the former Aes'Sedai got mind-broken until she was obedient enough for Fortunoa , and I don't see any remorse of this in her. The fact is she made that up, perhaps not even consciently , to allow her to continue her nasty business .

If I wasn't sure it would a catastrophe for the Matt Tuon relationship , I would snap a collar on her neck , to see her horror when she can't even touch it , when she get sick , when she is punished . And if in the end she would beg to be collared and trained as a Damane even with her puny "choice" not to .

 

Because for all the Seta Zarbey of the seanchan empire a hundred would get on their knew pleading to get collared .

A pattern will create those that refuse will either escape or get broken , this will create great chaos in the Seanchan empire perhaps weaken Fortunoa's rule . But they will endure , their institution are too strongly rooted in their people , and will be stronger for it , more damane even weaker's one will garnished the rank of the invincible army

[Suttree]

Personally I think I would just Still every Sul'dam I could get my hands on, as it would effectively destroy the seanchen damane army over night, and they would be forced to ask for help in rectifying it. Leanne and Suine could not control Moghedion whilst they were stilled...

 

Still every Seanchan learner because they have the potential to be a Sul'dam? Is that seriously what you are proposing?

[Morden]

Personally I think I would just Still every Sul'dam I could get my hands on, as it would effectively destroy the seanchen damane army over night, and they would be forced to ask for help in rectifying it. Leanne and Suine could not control Moghedion whilst they were stilled...

 

Still every Seanchan learner because they have the potential to be a Sul'dam? Is that seriously what you are proposing?

 

Im sure if the Damane who has been physcially and mentally abused and had their personalities destroyed by these women had a vote in the choice they would all agree. Sul'dam abuse the gift they have been given and I very much doubt many of them would want to learn.

 

There isnt a penance strong enough for what most Sul'dam do. if they lived in our world they would be executed for crimes against humanity. Stilling them seems a very mild way to solve the problem compared with that. And im sure that if they decided that they wanted to repent their ways then they could be healed.

 

Bear in mind that as they do not touch Saidar they will not have their life spans reduced. Because unless they use the One Power they do not gain the extra life. Im guessing here but if they did, then its pretty obvious that it would have been picked up upon that they could channel.

[Maleshub]

Assuming Elayne cannot create some sort of uber Ter'angrael with Rand that in effect negates the effect of A'dams....

 

Personally I think I would just Still every Sul'dam I could get my hands on, as it would effectively destroy the seanchen damane army over night, and they would be forced to ask for help in rectifying it. Leanne and Suine could not control Moghedion whilst they were stilled...

 

"Out of the frying pan and into the fire"

[driedraspberry]

It's possible, but personally I don't see the a'dam disappearing from Seanchan for many generations. It's not fair to say the distinction Tuon made would be lost on others. I just think it's one of those cultural flaws, a terrible one, that will take time to percolate before it's extinguished and condemned. The Seanchan are at the very early stages of realizing faults in their logic in respect to channelers. Aside from the more open-minded, many wont even want to consider these faults simply due to how important damane have been to their military might. It's possible that Tuon would change her mind (Mat could play a part in that) and force drastic change, but there are a lot of consequences involved.

 

A fair bargain Randlanders can hope for is a truce so that all that all their captives are released, and that no more are taken. Plus if communication and travel is encouraged (channelers granted immunity) than a learning process will take effect and hopefully speed up the elimination of damane.

[TristanWebb]

The more interesting problem is what happens when male channellers start not going insane. They don't have a male a'dam that works very well (the domination band eventually lets the man control the woman as well) and it would be very odd to let men walk around channelling while the women are all chained.

[Maleshub]

The more interesting problem is what happens when male channellers start not going insane. They don't have a male a'dam that works very well (the domination band eventually lets the man control the woman as well) and it would be very odd to let men walk around channelling while the women are all chained.

 

The Seanchan (if their ethos doesn't change and fail to produce a suitable male adam) would probably go in extermination mode against male channelers.

[Vardar]

The more interesting problem is what happens when male channellers start not going insane. They don't have a male a'dam that works very well (the domination band eventually lets the man control the woman as well) and it would be very odd to let men walk around channelling while the women are all chained.

 

The Seanchan (if their ethos doesn't change and fail to produce a suitable male adam) would probably go in extermination mode against male channelers.

 

Pretty much. I mean, once you have slavery as a standard part of your society, mass genocide isn't really out of the question, especailly if those people aren't useful.

[Morden]

they'd struggle more because woman struggle to tell when a male is holding Saidin.. and most males are stronger one on one, and I doubt its possible for demanes to link then they are already in a link.

 

All in all, the lack of madness would likely mean that any trained male could sever a female channeller before they noticed if they did it right. afterall all they would need to do is hammer the Sul'dam who has almost no defence because she hasnt learned to channel and the Demane becomes utterly useless

[Vardar]

they'd struggle more because woman struggle to tell when a male is holding Saidin.. and most males are stronger one on one, and I doubt its possible for demanes to link then they are already in a link.

 

All in all, the lack of madness would likely mean that any trained male could sever a female channeller before they noticed if they did it right. afterall all they would need to do is hammer the Sul'dam who has almost no defence because she hasnt learned to channel and the Demane becomes utterly useless

 

I actually always wondered about that. If a man was in a crowd with AS, he could walk about severing or attacking them and they'd have no idea what the hell was going on or see who did it.

 

1 on 1 facing each other, your advantage is loss, but in a crowd, sever away.

[shortkut]

Is it even possible to be severed without a circle?

[Suttree]

Don't forget AS have that new weave that allows them to tell when a man is holding the source...

[Vardar]

Is it even possible to be severed without a circle?

 

Yes. We've seen it done, and almost done numerous times.

 

Ny nearly severed Moggy, changed her mind, Eggy severed the black sister in the stone,

Rand severed quite a few women, and Lanfear almost severed him, he could tell the difference.

 

Don't forget AS have that new weave that allows them to tell when a man is holding the source...

 

That's not multi-directional is it? She knew what man was doing it, so she directed the weave at him, would it work in a crowd?

[harshitvaria]

Hey everyone I just had a theory about the A'dam and how to defeat it. Not sure if this is the right place to post but what if Forkroot is the answer to a'dam. We know that a'dam forces a circle so drinking forkroot would break the circle allowing the damane to remove the collar without feeling pain. The creator of the a'dam probably accounted for all means of escape but I'm sure she never thought of forkroot since it was not invented by then.

[thisguy]

Here's the thing - if the a'dam is doomed then either the Seanchan empire is doomed or they will have to change to allow channelers to live like everybody else. It's in book 4 where it is explained that the power of the Seanchan empire rests on their ability to control channelers. Egeanin is freaked out when she realizes that the holder of the leash is a woman who can learn and that the empire can crumble from this knowledge.

[nolirion]

Hey everyone I just had a theory about the A'dam and how to defeat it. Not sure if this is the right place to post but what if Forkroot is the answer to a'dam. We know that a'dam forces a circle so drinking forkroot would break the circle allowing the damane to remove the collar without feeling pain. The creator of the a'dam probably accounted for all means of escape but I'm sure she never thought of forkroot since it was not invented by then.

Drinking Forkroot tea only incapacitate the channeller and is ability , the adam restriction don't really account for your state , it forces feeling in you , that wouldn't work.

Egeanine held the empire in deep respect almost mythical respect , she think when learning there is in fact no such thing as a Sul'dam thing will automatically change .

That is wrong , not only you have the one who will not believe it , the one hypocrites as Fortunoa , or the one who simply don't care one way or another and won't change for fear off loss of power .

And a thousand more reason .

[Lisa Campbell]

Because of the link if you stilled a Damane or Suldam would it affect the other?

[Morden]

Because of the link if you stilled a Damane or Suldam would it affect the other?

 

Interesting question, I am of the opinion of no. I see linking as a bit like a string of lightbulbs... There lights blend together and become one.

 

Maybe im very wrong but I think it would provide the sul'dam with more protection than normal but I still think their light would wink out.

[nolirion]

Rand had to separately stilled the Aes'Sedai who hold him at Dumai's wells , we don't know if they where linked .

[Vardar]

Rand had to separately stilled the Aes'Sedai who hold him at Dumai's wells , we don't know if they where linked .

 

They weren't linked. That's why there were all individual points. Those things that went from soft to hard, hard was one AS tying off a shield and leaving to go guard the caravan, those 4 soft ones that were left were 4 AS who stayed with individual shields.

[thisguy]

But if you still the suldam, I don't think she'd be able to control the damane.

[Vardar]

But if you still the suldam, I don't think she'd be able to control the damane.

 

If you stilled the Suldam, it'd just be like when SUain put the bracelet on. Nothing would happen. The Damane would be just like when the bracelet is on the peg on the wall.

[Suttree]

But if you still the suldam, I don't think she'd be able to control the damane.

 

If you stilled the Suldam, it'd just be like when SUain put the bracelet on. Nothing would happen. The Damane would be just like when the bracelet is on the peg on the wall.

 

Btw Not sure why it hasn't been brought up but a sul'dam can not be stilled unless they have "stepped over" the line and actually channeled themselves. Until they do that there is nothing to sever.

[Vardar]

But if you still the suldam, I don't think she'd be able to control the damane.

 

If you stilled the Suldam, it'd just be like when SUain put the bracelet on. Nothing would happen. The Damane would be just like when the bracelet is on the peg on the wall.

 

Btw Not sure why it hasn't been brought up but a sul'dam can not be stilled unless they have "stepped over" the line and actually channeled themselves. Until they do that there is nothing to sever.

 

I still say that's incorrect giving the multiple descriptions in the book. (yes, yes I know Word of God) but if multiple channelers describe severing as the same weave as a shield, but sharper, and Avi shields Suldam, then obviously there's something to be severed. I'll never understand the logic behind that and I'm sad I'll never be able to ask a question about it