Tomas

[Durinax]

one question: why do you guys call it Verinisms. shouldn't it be Ingtarisms since he was the first known Df to sacrafice himself for the light?

[Luckers]

A Verinism is an odd action or comment made by Verin. Ingtar making a Verinism would be most peculiar--and creepy.

[Konteil]

_{Darkfriends lie all the time. There could be someting else altogether involved. Yes verin came back to the light a bit by the reveal. Yes there was a hint that thomas was up to something. Verin was a very smart woman. As we all know tere are medicines that can mimic or evemn bring about a temporary death. Whats to say that she didnt take someting along those linesinstead? Perhaps verin isnt dead after all. Wouldnt that be something?}

[Suttree]

_{Darkfriends lie all the time. There could be someting else altogether involved. Yes verin came back to the light a bit by the reveal. Yes there was a hint that thomas was up to something. Verin was a very smart woman. As we all know tere are medicines that can mimic or evemn bring about a temporary death. Whats to say that she didnt take someting along those linesinstead? Perhaps verin isnt dead after all. Wouldnt that be something?}

 

But her sacrifice defines the character. The whole thing would be far less epic if she turned out to be alive...

[Roxinos]

Not to mention the fact that the Oath would prevent her from betraying the Great Lord unless she believed she was going to die within the hour. So unless Laras slipped something else into her tea that didn't poison her without her knowledge, then she's as dead as...well, she's bloody dead.

[EmperorMayhem]

i agree that Verin COULD have lied and there could be some suspicious thing or other that points to something about her warder... however, i think it is something else.

 

I could be wrong, but Sanderson said something to the effect of, that we should be more interested in stuff about Verin, right? I mean, her interaction with Egwene before killing herself wasn't the only crucial thing she did... her entire life was spent working on identities of darkfriends and darkfriend channelers, right? Among other things, i'm thinking. its this that i've been thinking of since reading that fateful chapter.

 

Before Travelling to Egwene's room, Verin spends some time delivering letters to various characters all over the place. She sent Matt with one, detailing an attack on Caemlyn, and a choice between 2 AS. She gave a letter to Alanna Mosvanni (sp), who then disappears without anyone knowing where she went. And I seem to remember there being other letters, a whole stack of them, if I'm not mistaken.

 

My thought is, that Verin's betrayal of the Great Lord of the Dark goes far beyond the attack of Andor's capitol, and the Great Purge. One or more of the "letters of unknown content" will play a crucial role in the final book... and this is where my imagination gets the better of me. This, i think, should be the focus of our questions... not so much about Thomas and the wherabouts/details of his potential death.

 

what do you all think??

[RandA lThor]

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, but Verin mentioned that Tomas had grown so attatched to Verin that he did not want to live without her. However, seeing what Brandon said, I might begin to think that this is not really true. Tomas may have decided not to take the poison and decided to help the Light with whatever he could get out of the dark one's armies. Verin may also have just been protecting him, having no idea what other Aes Sedai would do knowing that he was a Darkfriend once. Finally, someone may have found out what Tomas was doing and stopped him. However, I can not find a role in which Tomas would be really important, so I think that he died. What Brandon may have been suggesting is that Verin left something behind or has something else in her book that is very important.

[Suttree]

My thought is, that Verin's betrayal of the Great Lord of the Dark goes far beyond the attack of Andor's capitol, and the Great Purge. One or more of the "letters of unknown content" will play a crucial role in the final book... and this is where my imagination gets the better of me. This, i think, should be the focus of our questions... not so much about Thomas and the wherabouts/details of his potential death.

 

what do you all think??

 

I agree, think there could be something in that little book/the letters concerning the Shadow's strategy will could come in very useful.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Just a few quotes that may have some bearing on the current posts.

 

INTERVIEW: Apr, 2012

Afternoon Tea with Brandon Sanderson - Luckers (Paraphrased)

 

LUCKERS

Verin infers that Tomas had to die within an hour of their betrayal of the Dark One, which is odd because he didn’t have that requirement, and she could have released him from the bond, so I was wondering, was Verin playing here?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

What you have to understand is Tomas was tired of this world. Without Verin, he didn’t really want to be around...

LUCKERS

So Tomas is dead?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes. Tomas is dead. She could have released him, yes, but he didn't want that.

 

 

INTERVIEW: Oct 26th, 2010

Dragonmount Interview with Brandon Sanderson by Luckers

 

LUCKERS

 

Will Verin face punishment from the Dark One for what she did? (Also, wow for that scene. Just plain flat out wow!)

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

 

Well, I can’t claim very much credit for that scene.

 

Will Verin face punishment from the Dark One? It will all depend on whether he can get his mitts on her or not.

 

(I think Verin=HotH)

[TootThatHorn]

 

 

I guess I'll be annoying then and point out that we don't know if the DO can bind people by other means. Or ishamael could have for that matter. Either way I don't think the DO would allow even the smallest darkfriend to betray him easily, so perhaps it's not so simple with tomas as it seems.

 

Also I'm glad dragonmount has a mobile page now. Woohoo.

 

this isnt fullproof evidence to the contrary, but we do know that the DO manipulated Fain in such a way that he had no choice but to chase down the boys...that is until an outside influence came along and allowed fain to squelch the urge some. it may not be hitting exactly on what is being discussed, but it is some circumstantial evidence that supports otherwise

[bbarrett90]

(I think Verin=HotH)

 

I like that idea a lot, if Verin was a HotH then she's bound to the wheel. And maybe its possible that being bound to the wheel supersedes being bound to the DO, so it becomes impossible for him to "get his mitts" on her before the wheel drags her into T'A'R to await rebirth.

[Roxinos]

that is until an outside influence came along and allowed fain to squelch the urge some.

 

I don't think he's squelched the urge at all. What with attacking the Two Rivers to lure Rand, trying to kill Rand on multiple occasions, constantly ranting about Rand, etc.

[Sheepherder]

that is until an outside influence came along and allowed fain to squelch the urge some.

 

I don't think he's squelched the urge at all. What with attacking the Two Rivers to lure Rand, trying to kill Rand on multiple occasions, constantly ranting about Rand, etc.

 

SL's influence definitely reduced his urge to hunt Rand. In TEotW, Fain's urge to chase Rand was so uncontrollable that by the time he found rand in Caemlyn he was unrecongizeable from not washing and barely eating or drinking. After acquiring the dagger, he could still sense and track Rand but could choose not to. Most of what he did in the two rivers and other attempts on Rand's life were out of revenge for what had been done to him, not because the DO was compelling him to.

[Barid Bel Medar]

(I think Verin=HotH)

 

I like that idea a lot, if Verin was a HotH then she's bound to the wheel. And maybe its possible that being bound to the wheel supersedes being bound to the DO, so it becomes impossible for him to "get his mitts" on her before the wheel drags her into T'A'R to await rebirth.

 

That was my thought aswell. And it would explain Nakomi/Verin, taking place in TAR, where the heroes reside, and Birigtte ignored the precepts, Verin surely would have no problem doing so. Although I have not looked at a timeline, I recall having heard that that scene was before Verin died. Meh, even if there is no Nakomi/Verin, I still think she is a HotH.

[TootThatHorn]

that is until an outside influence came along and allowed fain to squelch the urge some.

 

I don't think he's squelched the urge at all. What with attacking the Two Rivers to lure Rand, trying to kill Rand on multiple occasions, constantly ranting about Rand, etc.

 

SL's influence definitely reduced his urge to hunt Rand. In TEotW, Fain's urge to chase Rand was so uncontrollable that by the time he found rand in Caemlyn he was unrecongizeable from not washing and barely eating or drinking. After acquiring the dagger, he could still sense and track Rand but could choose not to. Most of what he did in the two rivers and other attempts on Rand's life were out of revenge for what had been done to him, not because the DO was compelling him to.

 

what he said

[A Rant Lord]

I would love it if ´spending time with his family would either imply him spending time with darkfriends, going on a killstreak, OR him showing up at the gap to fight with Lan. Anyone knows how the timeline works here? Is it possible that his last hour was fighting and dying at the gap? Would be a cool way to go, in the prologue of aMoL him dying to safe Lan's life, very stretchy, just would be cool, not plausible

[MikeRiley]

It would be known to the other darkfriends that Tomas was working for Verin as her Warder. With Verin gone, he would probably have been considered free for other tasks. Being with Verin was a sort of protection, maybe. Going the other way, we already know that the Dark One can send direct orders to the darkfriends, and he is about to find out that Verin is a traitor. Since Tomas was her Warder, that makes him an accomplice.

 

It's been a while since I read the book now, but didn't Verin say something about hoping she was dead before the Dark One noticed what she did? She probably gave the same warning to Tomas, because if he was still alive when the betrayal was learned of, he'd really be in for it.

 

Edit: Also, I remember a thread about this the last time I was active here but I can't seem to look at any of my old posts, so they were probably archived/pruned. In the thread there was the idea that Tomas was bringing the Horn of Valere to Caemlyn and then seeking out darkfriends in the area. I might be wrong, but I also recall a quote saying he did go to Caemlyn and that he does not have family in Andor, so family could refer to a Black Ajah Heart-style order of darkfriends.

[Roxinos]

that is until an outside influence came along and allowed fain to squelch the urge some.

 

I don't think he's squelched the urge at all. What with attacking the Two Rivers to lure Rand, trying to kill Rand on multiple occasions, constantly ranting about Rand, etc.

 

SL's influence definitely reduced his urge to hunt Rand. In TEotW, Fain's urge to chase Rand was so uncontrollable that by the time he found rand in Caemlyn he was unrecongizeable from not washing and barely eating or drinking. After acquiring the dagger, he could still sense and track Rand but could choose not to. Most of what he did in the two rivers and other attempts on Rand's life were out of revenge for what had been done to him, not because the DO was compelling him to.

 

Meh, I disagree. But fair enough. :)

[NetSlider]

I wonder i alanna has anything to do with it? Would rand feel something if thomas was bonded to her?

[Durinax]

It would be known to the other darkfriends that Tomas was working for Verin as her Warder. With Verin gone, he would probably have been considered free for other tasks. Being with Verin was a sort of protection, maybe. Going the other way, we already know that the Dark One can send direct orders to the darkfriends, and he is about to find out that Verin is a traitor. Since Tomas was her Warder, that makes him an accomplice.

When did we learn the direct order to darkfriends? or do you mean when the DO talks to the forsaken at the Pit of Doom

[Vardar]

It would be known to the other darkfriends that Tomas was working for Verin as her Warder. With Verin gone, he would probably have been considered free for other tasks. Being with Verin was a sort of protection, maybe. Going the other way, we already know that the Dark One can send direct orders to the darkfriends, and he is about to find out that Verin is a traitor. Since Tomas was her Warder, that makes him an accomplice.

When did we learn the direct order to darkfriends? or do you mean when the DO talks to the forsaken at the Pit of Doom

 

Book 1. He comes to them in their dreams right. Moraine talks about it when she finished studying Fain.

 

That being said, I'm going with the channeler theory. If Thomas was already old when he signed up to be a DF and learned he could channel, slowing wouldn't reverse for him would it? I mean Flinn still looks old right?

 

Well after reading the Tomas is dead quote on page 2, scratch that theory. I'll leave it up for the Flinn still looks old part however.

[Suttree]

It would be known to the other darkfriends that Tomas was working for Verin as her Warder. With Verin gone, he would probably have been considered free for other tasks. Being with Verin was a sort of protection, maybe. Going the other way, we already know that the Dark One can send direct orders to the darkfriends, and he is about to find out that Verin is a traitor. Since Tomas was her Warder, that makes him an accomplice.

When did we learn the direct order to darkfriends? or do you mean when the DO talks to the forsaken at the Pit of Doom

 

Book 1. He comes to them in their dreams right. Moraine talks about it when she finished studying Fain.

 

That being said, I'm going with the channeler theory. If Thomas was already old when he signed up to be a DF and learned he could channel, slowing wouldn't reverse for him would it? I mean Flinn still looks old right?

 

Well after reading the Tomas is dead quote on page 2, scratch that theory. I'll leave it up for the Flinn still looks old part however.

 

That was Ishy. The DO can not give direct orders to DFs. There is a reason the Forsaken go to SG for orders and later why the DO uses SH as his "shadowy" avatar.

[Vardar]

It would be known to the other darkfriends that Tomas was working for Verin as her Warder. With Verin gone, he would probably have been considered free for other tasks. Being with Verin was a sort of protection, maybe. Going the other way, we already know that the Dark One can send direct orders to the darkfriends, and he is about to find out that Verin is a traitor. Since Tomas was her Warder, that makes him an accomplice.

When did we learn the direct order to darkfriends? or do you mean when the DO talks to the forsaken at the Pit of Doom

 

Book 1. He comes to them in their dreams right. Moraine talks about it when she finished studying Fain.

 

That being said, I'm going with the channeler theory. If Thomas was already old when he signed up to be a DF and learned he could channel, slowing wouldn't reverse for him would it? I mean Flinn still looks old right?

 

Well after reading the Tomas is dead quote on page 2, scratch that theory. I'll leave it up for the Flinn still looks old part however.

 

That was Ishy. The DO can not give direct orders to DFs. There is a reason the Forsaken go to SG for orders and later why the DO uses SH as his "shadowy" avatar.

 

Touche. Still only one step away from direct however right? I mean Ishy finds out, BAM next time that person falls asleep, he gets his orders. (Kinda scary really, you can't even relax in your dreams)