Why is Callandor diffrent?

[RobertAlexWillis]

Oh I see ... I misunderstood and thought you were saying that the buffer effect in normal angreal/sa'angreal would filter the taint MORE than it filtered saidin. But the observed effect with Callandor is exactly as you stated.

[murali284]

I have an idea: maybe caalandor was created without the buffer purposely so that it could be used as a last ditch suicide weapon.

[Trib4l]

It's been proposed that sa'angreal require both men and women for their creation. If only men made callandor, it would stand to reason that would be why the buffer is missing, and women have to be used in it's place.

[Varcolac]

That actually fits rather nicely, considering all the guess work done here. If its not the real answer, it good enough for conversation's sake.

[Kaxen]

I think its more likely that callandor was made by female Aes Sedai rather than males because they would have all been going made fromt he taint. But this is only true if it was made after the taint was in place which i don't actually know, does anyone else?

[RobertAlexWillis]

The earliest I can firmly place it in the books is in Rand's flashback experience in the pillars of Rhuidean. Through Jonai he sees it in the hands of the three female Aes Sedai who seem to be in charge at the Hall of Servants, before the destruction of Paaren Disen, near the beginning of the Breaking. So we don't know if it was made before or after the Strike on Shayol Ghul. The Aes Sedai only mentioned it in passing, they didn't treat it specifically as old or new.

 

It would make a certain amount of sense for it to have been made after the taint was on saidin. The buffer flaw seems to have been designed into it deliberately (based on Cadsuane's assessment) and since the "safety" involves linking with women, and having the women in control, it would make sense that it was made after they knew men weren't safe as channelers anymore.

 

What an unwieldy sentence.

[Bob T Dwarf]

The BWB says it was "believed to have been made during the War of Power."

 

If that is accurate, that would place its construction before the Bore was sealed and saidin got tainted.

[RobertAlexWillis]

You know how there are some things in the BWB that feel like disinformation? Or at least they seem so to me ... thats one of them. During the War of the Power ... why would anyone make a sa'angreal flawed that way?

[Trib4l]

RJ has stated that there are deliberate inaccuracies in the BWB to portray a historian who is working from incomplete information, and trying to piece together the past.

[Mad Season]

While Callandor does require women to use safely it doesn't really make sense that women would make it after the taint. When there are thousands of mad male channelers running around why would you make a powerful sa'angreal? If one of them ever got it he would cause much more damage than without it. Maybe if it required two women to use it would make sense, but it doesn't. An insane man wouldn't ask women channelers to buffer it for him he would just use it.

 

I suppose there are cirumstances where it would be useful, if the Aes Sedai knew they could find one sane man and they were absolutely sure a man would never have it if he wasn't under their supervision. But it seems extremely risky to make it after all male channelers are sure to go insane since it will always have to be guarded untill after the taint is removed which wasn't in the foreseeable future.

 

Also, they didn't guard it that well if Lews Therin got ahold of it. To make it when they realized all me n were going insane and then let the strongest male channeler have it is completely crazy.

[Thor]

I doubt LTT ever touched it or perhaps even seen it. They made it for the prophecy and they knew that a time would come when it is needed to defeat DO.

 

They just didn't know when or how or whatever.

 

I think it was not intentional to build in the flaw.

 

By the way, when Narishma was sent to fetch it, why did he say that Rand didn't tell him everything?

 

Maybe, when he was unwinding the traps he tapped through Callandor accidentally and gave himself false illusions?

[bjclinton]

There is actually an entire thread w/in the first 2 pages of this forum dedicated to that theory- How, why, or if Rand did or didn't tell Narishma everything he needed to know before sending him to fetch Callandor.....

 

check it out- good stuff in there!

[Kaxen]

I always believed that LTT never saw or touched the weapon but it was made during the breaking when the prophecy of the Dragon Reborn was being prophesised. It is never said to be the weapon of The Dragon, but the weapon of The Dragon Reborn and is one of the signs that heralds his coming.

 

As for it not having a buffer the Aes Sedai who made it (be that male or female) may have been in too much of a hurry to place the sword of prophecy where none but the Dragon Reborn could get to it before the rest of the male Aes Sedai went mad an they didn't know that the lack of a buffer would amplify the taint.

[Luckers]

You know how there are some things in the BWB that feel like disinformation? Or at least they seem so to me ... thats one of them. During the War of the Power ... why would anyone make a sa'angreal flawed that way?

 

Your assuming that it was made that way intentionally. There must be a reason there arn't bajillions of super powerful sa'angreal... this inability to buffer them may be that reason, and the Choedan Kal with its artificial ter'angreal buffers a new and innovative solution.

[RobertAlexWillis]

It's possible too, that it was a mistake ... but if it was a screw up, with such a dangerous flaw, why would they keep it?

[Luckers]

Well it is still a powerful sa'angreal, and in the War of Power such would be needed. Finding two women and a man would have been of no question.

 

After that... well clearly it featured in a foretelling.

[RobertAlexWillis]

OK. I can buy that.

[rochaid]

found what I believe is some new info.....apparently RJ did indeed state that callondor was made during the war of power (a book signing).the flaw was due to "the effect of the war on manufacturing standards" and was discovered when they used Callandor during the War of the Power (Robert Jordan at a booksigning).

 

http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=136

 

sorry if this has been brought up before and discarded but i thought that it warranted a mention,as it could sort a lot of confusion out.

[Kaxen]

Well i think that well an truly sorts out this post

 

*dusts off hands*

[dimmu666]

yoyoyo you know how the choedan kal access keys were destroyed yeah? can they still be used now? like directly channel through them? they could transport them somehow and ppl can channel through them in massive circles. If like a maximum sized circle..how big is that? like 20 ppl? with both the male and female choedan kal being used....wouldn't that be enough to wipe out the world? and the DO? wawaweewow

[Trib4l]

Are you serious?

 

Anyway - the female access key was the only one that broke, and the female CK melted, hence the amayar suicide. Also - the reason the access keys existed was because a channeler could apparently not handle direct contact with the CK and needed the key as a buffer.

 

I think circles had a limit according to the BWB, but it was a large number. Provided enough men were there, it's possible to expand the circle to a very large number.

[Luckers]

72 is the number your thinking of. It also states, however, that at times much smaller circles were much more effective, as was circles with an even balance of men and women... or close to even, anyway.

[Trib4l]

Thanks Luckers - I couldn't remember that stuff. Wish I had the BWB in PDF format like other books.

[Thor]

I'm prey sure than 72 is not the max number, but hey, i might be wrong. I always remembered that the maximum number is an odd number, which is why there can never be perfect balance between female and male in circles.

[BetrayerofHope]

I'm prey sure than 72 is not the max number' date=' but hey, i might be wrong. I always remembered that the maximum number is an odd number, which is why there can never be perfect balance between female and male in circles.[/quote']

 

I seem to remember that there was a formula to the effect of 13 females plus 1 male allowed 12 additional females, then 1 additional male was required to add 11 females and so on. I also seem to remember the cap to be somewhere in the 90s not 70s.

 

Regarding if Lews Therin ever wielded Callandor, I think he must have, else how would they have been able to ward it against all others and keep it safe in the stone. What I mean to say is he must have left something of his essence in the blade so that they knew how to attune the ward specifically to him.