Cadsuane’s and Nynaeve’s ter’angreal

[Luckers]

Cadsuane’s and Nynaeve’s ter’angreal

 

I will post a quick list of their description and use, and then below a more detailed citation.

 

Cadsuane’s Ter'angreal

 

Possessed originally by the wilder, Norla, who made Cadsuane 'earn them'. It is not entirely certain what 'earning them' entailed, just that it taught Cadsuane the lesson that 'what must be endured, can be endured'.

 

1. Eight-pointed Star - Vibrates when a man who can channel is nearby. Vibrates more violently as you increase the number of men who can channel who are nearby.

 

2. Hummingbird - Is a Well which allows a person to store an amount of saidar for use later. This allows someone inside Far Madding (and presumably a stedding) to channel anyway, and RJ has also confirmed that it would allow someone who has been shielded to channel. Cadsuane's well does not contain very much saidar, and she has taught herself to be very exact in her use of it.

 

3. Swallow - Detects channeling and indicates direction of channeler. Does not detect cross-gender links. This, according to RJ, is because it was made during the Breaking to find men who can channel. A man in a link would not be a threat as he would already have placed himself at the mercy of a woman.

 

4. Shrike - Angreal

 

5. First Fish - Possibly breaks a distant weave (the way she took out Semirhage)**

 

6. Second Fish - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

 

7. Third Fish - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

 

8. Two intertwined Moons - Will disrupt direct weaves (like Mat's medallion).

 

9. A Crescent Moon - Use Unknown to Cadsuane.

 

10. Unmentioned Star - (The stars were mentioned in plural) Possibly breaks a distant weave (the way she took out Semirhage)**

 

These are all the ter'angreal that have been listed or implied, though she may still have more. [Edit: 8/9/2011 RJ stated in a letter about the News Spring Graphic Novel that Cadsuane does indeed only have 10 ornaments: -

 

From: Robert Jordan

To: Les Dabel

Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:03 PM

Subject: Re: Characters

 

The hair ornaments also appear to be attached to one another, which they aren't. Each one of the ten ornaments hangs from its own individual hairpin. The bun should be right on top of her head, not toward the back.]

 

 

**It's unknown which ter'angreal allowed her to break Semirhage’s disguise though my money is on the Fish because Cadsuane states that she doesn't know the use of 'two of her fish' suggesting she knows the use of the third. Still, it is uncertain.

 

Nynaeve’s Ter'angreal

 

Found in the Ebou Dar stash, and identified by Elayne as ter'angreal a woman might wear if she expected to be attacked at any moment. It should be noted that the box in which it was found had spaces for more jewellery, and as such that the set it not complete.

 

It should be noted that unlike Cadsuane's ter'angreal, those listed here as 'use unknown' are unknown to us. They may well be known to Nynaeve.

 

1. Rings and Bracelet - Angreal (and quite a strong one, apparently). Oddly its size seems to alter to fit the hand of whoever is wearing it.

 

2. Long Necklace with Rubies - Use Unknown**

 

3. Belt with Rubies - Is a Well, which allows a person to store an amount of saidar for use later. This allows someone inside Far Madding (and presumably a stedding) to channel anyway, and RJ has also confirmed that it would allow someone who has been shielded to channel. Nynaeve's Well can contain more saidar than Cadsuane's.

 

4. Bracelet with Rubies - Covers the user with armour made from Air. We have not seen this used so we do not know how effective it is, but Nynaeve states that whilst wearing it she would barely feel a sword blow. We do not know the detail to which this was tested, and Nynaeve does have a tendency to exagerate things, so it remains uncertain. There are other questions as well--for instance how mobile would someone be whilst armoured so?

 

5. First Bracelet with Emeralds - Use Unknown**

 

6. Second Bracelet with Emeralds - Use Unknown**

 

7. First Ring with Green Stones (one single stone) - Detects channeling as much as three miles away, and vibrates differently for saidin or saidar (note: If the person has their weaves inverted then apparently the ring can't tell the difference between saidin and saidar). Cadsuane believes the ring should also indicate direction (likely because her swallow does so), but we've never seen any indication that this is possible.

 

8. Second Ring with Green Stones - Use Unknown**

 

9. First Ring with Saphires (one single saphire) - Goes cold when someone nearby is feeling hostile or angry. Nynaeve states that it does not indicate which person is feeling hostile or angry, nor does it differentiate between the two feelings.

 

10. Second Ring with Saphires - Use Unknown**

 

Unlike Cadsuane we know this to be every piece in Nynaeve's collection.

 

**One of the unknown ter'angreal breaks direct weaves, like Mat's medallion.

 

Cadsuane's Ter'angreal; Citations.

 

Cadsuane’s

 

1. Eight-pointed Star.

 

Physical Description: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Description of Use: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Other Details: None.

 

2. Hummingbird.

 

Physical Description: [WH; 34, The Humingbirds Secret]

Description of Use: [WH; 34, The Humingbirds Secret]

Other Details: RJ's quote on it being used when shielded;-

 

Q: Can someone channel from a Well while shielded?

 

RJ: Yes, they could. If they had the Well.

 

[tarvalon.net Q&A 26th of Febuary 2003, found through the Theoryland Interview Database]

 

3. Swallow

 

Physical Description: [WH; 35, With the Choedan Kal]

Description of Use: [WH; 35, With the Choedan Kal]

Other Details: None.

 

4. Shrike

 

Physical Description: [WH; 35, With the Choedan Kal]

Description of Use: [WH; 35, With the Choedan Kal]

Other Details: None.

 

5. First Fish

 

Physical Description: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Description of Use: [CoT; 23, Ornaments] - implication that she knows the use of this fish, but no specifics on what that is.

Other Details: The breaking of a distant weave occurs in [KoD, 27, A Plain Wooden Box]

 

6. Second Fish

 

Physical Description: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Description of Use: [CoT; 23, Ornaments] - specifies use unknown.

Other Details: None.

 

7. Third Fish

 

Physical Description: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Description of Use: [CoT; 23, Ornaments] - specifies use unknown.

Other Details: None.

 

8. Two intertwined Moons

 

Physical Description: [tPoD; 12, New Alliances]

Description of Use: Comes in parts.

 

1. [tPoD; 12, New Alliances] The moons are described as cool on Cadsuane's temple when Alanna embraces saidar. Note: Mat's Medallion goes cool when people touch the Source near him.

2. [KoD; 7, A Cold Medallion] Setalle Anan states she heard that Cadsuane has a ter'angreal which can disrupt a direct weave.

3. [RJ's Blog] confirms Setalle's comment. "For Krassos, yes, a channeler could still channel wearing Mat's amulet. Cadsuane has one much like it."

 

Other Details: None.

 

9. A Crescent Moon

 

Physical Description: [CoT; 23, Ornaments]

Description of Use: [CoT; 23, Ornaments] - specifies use unknown.

Other Details: None.

 

10. Unmentioned Star

 

Physical Description: [aCoS; 18, As The Plow Breaks The Earth] - use of the plural, 'stars' in a description of her jewellery. Note: This pluralisation is maintained in every description of the ornaments.

Description of Use: This other star is never specifically mentioned, so we do not know if Cadsuane knows its use. We certainly don't, though it may be the one to break a distant weave [KoD; 27, A Plain Wooden Box]

Other Details: None.

 

Nynaeve's Ter'angreal; Citations.

 

Note: Alot of these are described early on, yet I've listed the physical description as being made in [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]. This is because the Malkieri jeweller Weilin gives more detailed descriptions than the earlier mentions.

 

1. Rings and Bracelet

 

Physical Description: [tPoD; 4, A Quiet Place]

Description of Use: [tPoD; 4, A Quiet Place]

Other Details: Alterations in size:[WH; 35, With the Choedan Kal]

 

2. Long Necklace with Rubies

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: No use is ever described.

Other Details: Description of direct weave breaking (of which this ter'angreal is a candidate) [KoD; 35, With the Choedan Kal].

 

3. Belt with Rubies

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: [WH; 32, A Portion of Wisdom]

Other Details: Citation that it holds more than Cadsuanes: [WH; 34, The Humingbird's Secret]

 

4. Bracelet with Rubies

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: [WH; 33, Blue Carp Street]

Other Details: None.

 

5. First Bracelet with Emeralds

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: No use is ever described.

Other Details: Description of direct weave breaking (of which this ter'angreal is a candidate) [KoD; 35, With the Choedan Kal].

 

6. Second Bracelet with Emeralds

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: No use is ever described.

Other Details: Description of direct weave breaking (of which this ter'angreal is a candidate) [KoD; 35, With the Choedan Kal].

 

7. First Ring with Green Stones (one single stone)

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: [WH; 32, A Portion of Wisdom]

Other Details: The scene where we learn that it cannot tell the difference between male and female channelers if their weaves are inverted: [KoD; 20, A Plain Wooden Box]

 

8. Second Ring with Green Stones

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: No use is ever described.

Other Details: Description of direct weave breaking (of which this ter'angreal is a candidate) [KoD; 35, With the Choedan Kal].

 

9. First Ring with Saphires (one single saphire)

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Other Details: None.

 

10. Second Ring with Saphires

 

Physical Description: [KoD; 20, The Golden Crane]

Description of Use: No use is ever described.

Other Details: Description of direct weave breaking (of which this ter'angreal is a candidate) [KoD; 35, With the Choedan Kal].

[TreeJoe]

Excellent summary, truly fun to read too.

 

I would be very curious to see Nynaeve or Cadsuanne allow themselves to be shielded and then strike using the Well.

 

I also find the Well concept fascinating. A Ter'angreal that can store the power simply by embracing through it? This reminds me of tEotW, where a massive pool of pure saidin was created....I still don't know the normal use of creating liquid "one power", aside from that they were able to make it pure and that it apparently allowed Rand to use more of the Power than he usually could unaided (that was hinted at, though I'm not 100% sure of it).

 

How far can the Well concept be taken? Etc.

[Byzantine279]

I think if someone with a well channeled after being shielded it would freak their opponent out so much they would drop the shield. After all, wells are unknown to modern Aes Sedai, so they probably are to dreadlords as well.

[balefireruinssteaks]

I guess the idea is that instead of reaching for the True Source and being blocked by the shield, they reach for the Source through the Well? The shield won't block that?

[Demiandre]

Yes. See it as the Well being inside the shield. But with a reach outside of it. Halfway in, halfway out

[Byzantine279]

No bale, the source is already contained inside the well, think of it like a battery. It has a very limited charge, but it will work even if someone cuts the power lines to your house.

[Darkspot]

But does it block the well from pulling the power? Would it stop a person using an angrael or sa'angrael? The shield seems to block a path, and the items seem to have a difference, though all (but the already filled well) seems to be they just tie onto your current connection, perhaps making it wider, but not going another path.

[Byzantine279]

They really need to get Avi there so she can tell them what the unknown pieces do.

[SheaththeSword]

 

 

3. Belt with Rubies - Is a Well, which allows a person to store an amount of saidar for use later. This allows someone inside Far Madding (and presumably a stedding) to channel anyway, and RJ has also confirmed that it would allow someone who has been shielded to channel. Nynaeve's Well can contain more saidar than Cadsuane's.

 

 

I'm the probably the first here to admit reading what i'm about to mention, but that sounds very like a belt that Eragon has xD

Belt, bejeweled, stores magic in the jewels (is it specified where, if anywhere, in the belt the Power is stored?), allows as an extra resource for drawing magic.

 

Who published this type of item first? RJ or CP?

 

Feel free to flame me for reading that crap, as ye wish.

[Haggis]

Well I only read half the first book, so no clue what the belt is or when it showed up, but winter's heart was a couple of years before the first book.

 

But the idea of a magic battery isn't that uncommon so I doubt it matters.

 

I like the idea of a armor of air. We haven't see the power used that way. Walls, bindings and weapons, but never armor.

[SheaththeSword]

Well I only read half the first book, so no clue what the belt is or when it showed up, but winter's heart was a couple of years before the first book.

 

But the idea of a magic battery isn't that uncommon so I doubt it matters.

 

I like the idea of a armor of air. We haven't see the power used that way. Walls, bindings and weapons, but never armor.

It would make far more sense to create lots of air armour for your soldiers (and their mounts), especially in front of their exposed faces, and to tie off the weaves so that your not drained my maintaining hundreds of sets of armour. So long as they were flexible where needed.

It strikes me as teribbly inefficient how they battle with the one power - for small confrontations, surely a rock-hard spear head of air into the temple would end most things quickly and easily, much easier than blasting them with fire.

If Cadsuane was a general in an Aes Sedai army/division that worked on developing new techniwues and weaves for military purposes, i'm sure this would be the first thing they'd come out with. As a Green though, it's probably already in her head.

[Superhal]

Yeah it seems really dumb that in all these years, they never thought of propelling weapons with the OP until they met the gholam. It doesn't have to be something big like a catapult stone either, they could just make a bunch of shrapnel, hurl it, and that's it.

[XXX]

Yeah it seems really dumb that in all these years, they never thought of propelling weapons with the OP until they met the gholam. It doesn't have to be something big like a catapult stone either, they could just make a bunch of shrapnel, hurl it, and that's it.

 

 

Rand does exactly that when he takes on the Draghkar's at Maradon...he make the air around him freeze and blasts the icicles out in all direction smashing them from the sky.

[Superhal]

They really need to get Avi there so she can tell them what the unknown pieces do.

 

Yeah, that part was sad. Right now, only Elayne knows Avi can do this, and then Avi immediately had to go to Rhiudean and didn't return yet.

[Haggis]

Well I only read half the first book, so no clue what the belt is or when it showed up, but winter's heart was a couple of years before the first book.

 

But the idea of a magic battery isn't that uncommon so I doubt it matters.

 

I like the idea of a armor of air. We haven't see the power used that way. Walls, bindings and weapons, but never armor.

It would make far more sense to create lots of air armour for your soldiers (and their mounts), especially in front of their exposed faces, and to tie off the weaves so that your not drained my maintaining hundreds of sets of armour. So long as they were flexible where needed.

It strikes me as teribbly inefficient how they battle with the one power - for small confrontations, surely a rock-hard spear head of air into the temple would end most things quickly and easily, much easier than blasting them with fire.

If Cadsuane was a general in an Aes Sedai army/division that worked on developing new techniwues and weaves for military purposes, i'm sure this would be the first thing they'd come out with. As a Green though, it's probably already in her head.

 

I don't know. It's a good idea in theory, but A. As you said how flexible would it be. And B. How draining? If I remember correctly Suain was able to make a sword and knife of air, but it was difficult. and That makes sense. Air is incompressible, it's not easy to confine it and to make as hard as rock or metal would take A LOT or air in a small area.

 

When you think of it that way a blade of air is more impressive a feat then rand's sword of fire.

 

Also depending on the sister armor might cross the oath against making weapons.

[SheaththeSword]

 

... Air is incompressible, it's not easy to confine it and to make as hard as rock or metal would take A LOT or air in a small area. ....

 

I think you mean COMPRESSIBLE, yes?

Ya you are right it could take alot of energy to squish so much air into a hardened point. But a sword seems far too complex and cumbersum to bother with - compress air around an enemy's head into needles, while almost simultaneously driving those into his temples/skull in general. Seems quick and easy.

 

Why not simply make small stones fly around at high speed tearing through enemy skull and throats (p.s. can this be done with Earth, or would it require Air? I don't remember too much detail on what can be done with Earth)?

As things developed, small bullet-like objects could be carried in pouches for channelers to replace pebbles, simply for easy of use (slice easier) and always having some to hand.

 

With AS prohibitions of OP as a weapon and the distance of TV from the Blight, I guess it is easy to see why this didn't develop very far amongst AS in the past.

Perhaps I missed Wise Ones using the Power in similar ways (there was an incident with spears and Couladin?), as I can see no reason why they should not have thought of this.

It seems very odd that Seanchan do not employ this technique.

 

 

 

Sorry i'm so off topic, is there a thread for this topic? xD

[Haggis]

That seems more difficult. Remember she said a knife was a difficult as a sword. And multiple needles?

 

How effective would that be. From the sound of it AS didn't throw things with such speed or power.

 

Plus remember who they are fighting. This would be most effective against a single opponent. Lighting and fire seems the better choice against mass opponents. And against trollocs and fades who can take a lot of punishment?

 

And again seanchan use damane as siege weaponry. Quicker to just blow up the army.

[SheaththeSword]

That seems more difficult. Remember she said a knife was a difficult as a sword. And multiple needles?

 

How effective would that be. From the sound of it AS didn't throw things with such speed or power.

 

Plus remember who they are fighting. This would be most effective against a single opponent. Lighting and fire seems the better choice against mass opponents. And against trollocs and fades who can take a lot of punishment?

 

And again seanchan use damane as siege weaponry. Quicker to just blow up the army.

Yes of course you are right, with multiple enemies this would be very impractical. I've gotten into thinking that everyone has the mental abilities of Lan or the control of OP that Rand/Nynaeve has.

 

Are death gates very difficult to do? They would seem to be the best way to deal with large numbers of ground forces - as you said shadowspawn infantry can take alot of damage, i'd be surprised if anything but a direct lightening hit, or a collateral explosion that snapped their neck, would kill them.

 

Also, was just thinking of the Wild Wild West movie ('99) - the spinning blades that went straight for necks as they had magnetic collars attaches. Razor thin Air or an adjusted gateway weave could have the same effect, slicing hundreds of heads in one sweep.

Is there a thread for battle weaves/idle speculation of weaves? That's really where this should be.

[Luckers]

Updated: We now know that Cadsuane definately only has ten ter'angreal.

[Mulk]

so the logical conclusion is that (most likely anyway) Nynaeve's set is a later and more powerful version of Cadsuane's paralis net?

 

That is pretty cool, Luckers, I hadn't really reviewed all of that before.

[Luckers]

To be clear, a paralis-net is a group of ter'angreal designed to be worn as a defensive measure. That being said there is no 'male version of Cadsuane's paralis-net'. Cadsuane's paralis-net, and Nynaeve's, were made during the Breaking of the World in large part due to the dangers posed by male channelers--RJ has even stated that Cadsuane's swallow won't detect a cross-gender link because in the process of linking a man has submitted to a woman, and thus in the context of the Breaking would not be a danger, and we know that there are several ter'angreal in both sets that do things Age of Legenders did not know were possible.

 

From this we can infer that Cadsuane's and Nynaeve's sets were constructed by women, to help women, in the specific realities of the breaking. No woman was likely to create such a set for a man, and even if a man out there tried to create something similar for himself, it would not be a 'copy'--and frankly I reguard the concept as unlikely, though they did make the Ways, so who knows.

 

so the logical conclusion is that (most likely anyway) Nynaeve's set is a later and more powerful version of Cadsuane's paralis net?

 

My guess--and this is strictly a guess--is that Nynaeve's paralis-net was made by a student of the woman who made Cadsuane's paralis-net. Cadsuane's is more elegent, but less powerful. Nynaeve's has more rough edges, but seems to have concepts from Cadsuane's taken to a new level, plus seemingly has a higher level of practical function. So yeah, my guess is Cadsuane's was made by a true Age of Legends Aes Sedai, who had the training and the experience to want artistry in her work. Nynaeves was by a student trained by that woman, but with the more rough-and-touble lifestyle that grew up in the Breaking, but for all that a woman who had more time to develop the ideas in play, plus more practical experience in the world at hand.

 

Certainly the guady over-stated nature of Nynaeve's jewellery suggests an attempt at emulation by someone who doesn't truly know fine jewellery.

[Ferdawoon]

Just re-listening to the books on Audio while going for a walk, and came to the part in tGS where Semirhage is released by Shadar Haran and given the domination band. She reflect that Cadsuane have a Paralis net, so it is mentioned in the books even back then, and we know that someone who was locked away with the Dark One already knew about the concept of a Paralis net and what it would look like or feel like..

[yoniy0]

I'm looking at this with fresh eyes, now after ToM. Did Cadsuane teach Nynaeve about her paralis net in Far Madding? How do we explain the fact that Elayne, who definitely studied these ter'angreal, didn't attempt to duplicate the one that breaks direct weaves, like she later did the fox-head medallion?

[gloweye]

Just re-listening to the books on Audio while going for a walk, and came to the part in tGS where Semirhage is released by Shadar Haran and given the domination band. She reflect that Cadsuane have a Paralis net, so it is mentioned in the books even back then, and we know that someone who was locked away with the Dark One already knew about the concept of a Paralis net and what it would look like or feel like..

 

And in ToM, Rand tells Cads he helped make the first one...and he wore the first male version.

 

That at least strongly hints at them being made for the war of power. And it makes me think....is LTT ever described as wearing something that could be a net?

[Sharaman]

Women wore them as different ornaments.Presumably men also wore pnets that looked different - jewelled boxer shorts perhaps? .