The Slowing of Men

[Devolution]

I believe that RJ said that men slow too (though I can't find it now and I might be wrong) but is it possible that the slowing is different than men than it is in women?  I don't have all of my books next to me, but I was reading CoT and something struck out at me:

 

pg. 265 paperback

 

"A stocky fellow with a weathered face already beginning to show creases, though he was short of his middle years yet, Grady looked ..."

 

That seems to indicate he looks older than his years, which is not at all in line with what female Aes Sedai look like.  Even those who have seen much don't seem to age as Grady has.

 

All by itself, that might not have struck out at me, but there's a few other things that made me think of:

 

Taim looked older than his years, too.

Rahvin had white hair at his temples, a sign of aging in men.

Logain - it's never stated that he looked any younger than his years, as is often brought up in connection with female channelers.

Asmodean - appears to be in his middle years.  (However, I don't think we know how old he was when he was sealed away, nor do we know if this was a disguise.)

 

Maybe that doesn't seem like a lot, but other than the Asha'man and the Forsaken, we don't know any other men who channel.  And, of the Asha'man, we don't know who has just learned to channel and who has the spark.  The length of time they have been channeling and the age at which they learned could have a great deal to do with it. 

 

I'm not quite comfortable including unknowns unless I'm certain they've been channeling long enough to slow and that they were the average age when they began.  I included Grady for two reasons.  1) It was specifically stated that he looks older than his age and 2) it was this description that made me think of this.

 

I would like to find other instances of this, but the Forsaken are kind of a blank at the moment. Aginor and Balthamel were trapped and felt the passing of many ages, making their original appearances (in the series) meaningless and their subsequent appearances just as meaningless as they were given new bodies.  Ishamel was not fully bound as were the others so we have no idea what kind of effect this would have had on his appearance and, again, he has been given a new body.  Sammael, not enough information is given to decide if he looked young or old; same with Demandred.

 

I guess, what I'm asking or thinking about in my long-winded way, has anyone else ever seen this or is there more information about it?  It probably doesn't have any important implications, but it would be interesting to learn more about the differences between male and female channelers.  Is it possible that working with the power ages men quickly and then slows them?  Could it possibly have something to do with the stress of controlling saidin?  Or, maybe it had to do with the taint and now that it's been cleansed, it is moot.  Are there any other thoughts at all?

[Snarf]

I believe Grady's aged description was to show how much stress he had been under to that point.  Under extreme stress, a person's hair will actually lose pigmentation.

As far as Rahvin's white wings, he may have been well over 600 years old, perhaps much older.  From the glass column viewings in tSR, the average people (non-channelers) of the Second Age had much longer life spans.  Rahvin's age is never really stated, but I took the white wing description to imply that he was very old.

And, with Asmodean appearing in his middle years, that neither proves nor disproves the slowing.  If a channeler is not bound, they do not attain the "ageless" look.  They will still age, and show signs of their aging.  It just takes longer.  So, Asmodean was probably an older AoLer as well.

[Fains nose]

It could be that the men arent described as young looking because the are meant to be hard looking and tough, not baby faced. Also keep in mind Aes Sedai look ageles because of the oath rod, look at the kin or the wise ones for examples of old-looking female channelers.

[Luckers]

Men do slow, but not until their late twenties. The reason Grady and Taim look older is the lives they've led. Stress and harsh living ages people.

 

As for Rahvin--his white hair indicates that he is probably over or around 300 years of age--of course some people do whiten early.

[Arkane101]

None of the Ashaman look younger then they actually are, is because none of them except Taim and Logain have being channeling very long, Grady looking old is because he is relatively old and has lived a rugged life. The slowing only ever occurs if a person can feel the one power, since the only Ashaman who could have had the talent born in them apart from Logain and Taim would have to be very young and not had the spark manifest in them yet, no male channelers look younger then they are, excepting Taim and Logain, although it's hard to say how old they are without a quote or something.

[Devolution]

I do realize that the oath rod is what gives Aes Sedai their ageless look, but that is different than looking young.  It was my error to include the phrase Aes Sedai when I meant female channelers.

 

Alivia has seen a lot of war and fighting and she is over 400 years old, yet she only has strands of white and fine lines.

Grady is "short of his middle years" not relatively old.

 

 

Amys still looks young (admittedly, but for her white hair) though we cannot say that the Aiel way of life is not hard and rugged.  Not only that, but we know that constant exposure to sun can artificially age people and other Aiel are described as being weathered by the sun and hard lives... etc.  Amys does not appear to have been aged by her life.

Taim looks to be 35.  If he has been channeling for 15 years, as seems to be indicated, then he looks about his age.  He does not look as though he slowed in his late twenties.

[Lambada]

Most of the asha'men were not sparkers.

Hence they lead a normal life, with normal ageing until they got the the Black Tower. The slowing only happens after starting work with the power, and it doesn't turn back time.

 

So if they got white hair, wrinkles etc. before they started working channeling won't undo that - it will just stop it getting any worse until their appearance and age are in sync on channelers timelines.

 

So in other words vastly simplfying it:

A normal person gets wrinkles at 60.

A channeler gets them at 300.

If someone learns to channel at 65 their wrinkles won't get any worse until about 305. Their body won't change (but it won't get any younger either) for about 240 years.

 

[Vermillion]

By the treatment of men in the book, you'd think men were slow from birth lol.

[Vassili]

Men do slow too. The only reason we haven't seen this in action up untill now is the Taint: not only did it drive Men crazy, but it made them rot alive if by some twist of fate they weren't killed in their madness. The process is the same in men and women, though men probably start slowing later than women (they spark later too).

 

The reason Grady looks old is partly stress, but also partly because he wasn't youg when he started channeling. If you are an old man, you won't regress into youth the moment you start channeling.

 

If you are a man or a woman, slowing won't postpone aging indefinately, it just takes a long time. There are channelers out there who look like they are 80. They are just around 600+. And note, the Oath Rod changes this: modern Aes Sedai, or any oathbound channeler, will never appear to be old, but they will also have their normal lifespans cut in half. Effectively, they die before they get old, though there is a little more to it than that.

 

 

 

So in other words vastly simplfying it:

A normal person gets wrinkles at 60.

A channeler gets them at 300.

If someone learns to channel at 65 their wrinkles won't get any worse until about 305. Their body won't change (but it won't get any younger either) for about 240 years.

 

 

Not true. I don't have the quote on me, but RJ stated that if an old woman (or man) were to begin channeling they would slowly regress to a physical appearance that matches how they would have looked had they started channeling in their youth. Because an 80 year old channeler looks only slightly older than a 25 year old channeler (remember, 600+ lifespan), this would make it apear like one was becomming young again.

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

A couple of pertinent quotes from RJ's blog:

 

Regarding Sharina, and other women who learn to channel at age, she will indeed grow younger in appearance.  No, she will not achieve an Aes Sedai face without the Oath Rod, but where she has previously looked, say, sixty, she will look perhaps thirty-five, with accompanying changes in hair color.  Think of it as analogous to slowing, which older women also do.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=31

 

and again:

 

Sharina will not grow young, but she will grow younger in appearance, as will any other older women who begin to channel.  For Sharina, by way of example, she will “regress” into apparent middle age, but no younger.

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/RobertJordan/?p=30

 

So, channelers do not begin slowing until they begin channeling, but once they do begin channeling, they will actually appear to regress in age.

 

Grady looks old because that is how he looked when he started channeling.  Of course, his appearance is made more haggard by stress, but over time, he should begin to appear younger.  That change, however, will be gradual, in the sense that it could take years for the effect to be observed.  We just haven't seen some of the older Asha'man long enough to witness it yet.

[Ashaman_Axel]

How about Narishma? He's a sparker. Could he be a good measure on how male channelers slow? Too bad we don't get much information about his looks from the time he joined the BT till tGS. Whenever he's mentioned it's always his eyes that get the spotlight.

[Duskfire]

How about Narishma? He's a sparker. Could he be a good measure on how male channelers slow? Too bad we don't get much information about his looks from the time he joined the BT till tGS. Whenever he's mentioned it's always his eyes that get the spotlight.

 

We've only seen Narishma about a year or so, if that. There wouldn't be any slowing detected yet.

[Mardy]

I cant remember which book but im sure Rand at some point notices that Flinn was losing a few years off his appearance. im pretty sure i didnt make that up but can someone confirm that or tell me to be quiet

[Val Mickey]

Could be they slow in fits and starts - like their strength in the Power.

[Luckers]

I cant remember which book but im sure Rand at some point notices that Flinn was losing a few years off his appearance. im pretty sure i didnt make that up but can someone confirm that or tell me to be quiet

 

I think you must be thinking of Romanda noticing Sharina seemed less wrinkly than before. I may have missed it, but I cannot find any reference by Rand to Narishma seeming younger.

 

How about Narishma? He's a sparker. Could he be a good measure on how male channelers slow? Too bad we don't get much information about his looks from the time he joined the BT till tGS. Whenever he's mentioned it's always his eyes that get the spotlight.

 

He wouldn't have started slowing yet--men do not slow until into their late twenties.

[Byzantine279]

I would say the taint is why Logain and Taim do not appear to have slowed, and the other asha'man have not been channeling long enough to see anything but minor affects, and even those only in the oldest (like Sharina appearing to lose her wrinkles, the older asha'man would lose their to, and be the first to have any real "visible" change). And even if some of them have been channeling long enough they should be showing signs they were exposed to the taint too, and we have no idea what affect that would have on the "slowing".

[chuckievi]

I would say the taint is why Logain and Taim do not appear to have slowed, and the other asha'man have not been channeling long enough to see anything but minor affects, and even those only in the oldest (like Sharina appearing to lose her wrinkles, the older asha'man would lose their to, and be the first to have any real "visible" change). And even if some of them have been channeling long enough they should be showing signs they were exposed to the taint too, and we have no idea what affect that would have on the "slowing".

 

 

Keep in mind slowing takes time, time we haven't really had with most male channelers up to this point. If you say spark at 25 and it has been a couple of years since the BT was built, call it 3, then people like Narishma are only 28. How many people can walk up to a random person and guess if they are 25 or 28? Give it time.

[yoniy0]

As Luckers reminded us above, men don't slow until their late twenties-early thirties.