The Eye of the World, Does it Still Have a Use?

[mossman87]

I was just thinking of the Eye of the World, we could say its purpose ended in Book 1, but where's the fun in that?  The name itself is pretty striking.

 

Week 11 Question: I just started The Great Hunt and I find the religious and political aspects very interesting. I notice the dedication for The Great Hunt says, "They came to my aid when God walked across the water, and the true Eye of the World passed over my house." Has your own religion in any way helped to shape the book?

 

Robert Jordan Answers: Only in the sense that it helped to shape my moral and ethical beliefs. My work certainly is not religious in even the sense that J.R.R. Tolkien's was, much less the work of C.S. Lewis. That inscription, by the way, referred to Hurricane Hugo striking Charleston, where I live. The word hurricane comes from the name of a god of the Caribe Indians, who believed that the storm was that god walking across the water. Anyone who has ridden out a hurricane, and I have ridden out several, can well believe that it is. And if a hurricane isn't the Eye of the World, it's as close as we will come in this world.

 

I just don't see what happened in Book 1 to really compare it to: "And if a hurricane isn't the Eye of the World, it's as close as we will come in this world."

 

The Eye of the World is literally in the middle of Hell, and would be completely gone if Somestha didn't sacrifice himself and make the area grow with it's Pattern-ness.

 

So here's my question, we have an Eye in the middle of Hell.  In real Randland not sure what they could do there, but they know the area and could Travel there.  Millions of scenarios there.

 

But what about TAR?  We know the Blight isn't in TAR, but would the Eye?  Because of Somestha would there be an Eye in the middle of Hell there?  That'd be interesting if so, just getting thoughts.

[Charlz Fel]

I think that RJ was speaking figuratively here.  When the eye of Hurricane Hugo passed over Charleston, the wind went from over a hundred miles per hour to still in a very short period of time.  For about ten minutes, you could walk around outside in dead calm and see the momentous damage that had already been done.  It was eerie.  I imagine that this experience brought the word "eye" to Jordan's mind when he answered the question, and prompted him to make a specific reference to the books that, in retrospect, was not entirely appropriate.

 

[Note: even if you want to claim that the reference was entirely appropriate--that the Eye of the World has some special, as yet undiscovered significance that prompted him to make this remark--it is still necessary to assume that RJ slipped, since he would not have intended to reveal such significance.  Occam's razor dictates that we accept the simpler slip, which in my mind is the one above.]

[Ishmayl]

I've always thought (okay, not always, but at least ever since I entered WOT fandom) that the Eye was underused.  It really seemed like the Dark One at least had set it up to be some major thing, that without, the Dragon would lose.  One could argue, I suppose, that the entire purpose for the Eye was so that Rand would have enough saidin to draw in his first conscious channeling, but that seems like a bit weak to me - almost turns the Eye into nothing but a MacGuffin.  So, I wish it had more of a purpose.  But I sadly don't believe anything else will ever come of it.

[mossman87]

I think that RJ was speaking figuratively here.  When the eye of Hurricane Hugo passed over Charleston, the wind went from over a hundred miles per hour to still in a very short period of time.  For about ten minutes, you could walk around outside in dead calm and see the momentous damage that had already been done.  It was eerie.  I imagine that this experience brought the word "eye" to Jordan's mind when he answered the question, and prompted him to make a specific reference to the books that, in retrospect, was not entirely appropriate.

 

[Note: even if you want to claim that the reference was entirely appropriate--that the Eye of the World has some special, as yet undiscovered significance that prompted him to make this remark--it is still necessary to assume that RJ slipped, since he would not have intended to reveal such significance.  Occam's razor dictates that we accept the simpler slip, which in my mind is the one above.]

 

Okay, lets ignore the RJ quote and press forward then.  Any thoughts?

[MikeRiley]

I don't think it even exists anymore. At the end of the first book the characters notice the Blight taking over now that the Green Man is dead and they think that the tree marking the Green Man's grave would be the last to fall. It had a sense of being final to me. The Blight will have taken over the whole area by now and it's lost its magic that made its location shift.

 

It might be that the pool of Saidin was cleansed (at the cost of lives) to prevent the Dark One from seeing what it hid, and the pool served the dual purpose of giving the Eye its TAR property of using Need to locate it.

[Demiandre]

The Eye is now a true location you can access normally. So I think it is possible to go there with T'A'R now. And Loial says that Treebrother will never fall to the Shadow. It will be an uncorrupted land of grass in the Blight.

 

And I thought there was no relation between T'A'R and One Power, so why the pool of saidin would make it accessible with the use of need?

 

There are some location not accessible within T'A'R : Rhuidean, the Blight, and... hmmmm. Something else perhaps. I think it is because of the uninhabitants. (Or wasn't there something around Rhuidean? A ward or something?)

 

The Eye of the World was a construct of the Power. And thus likely not reflected in T'A'R...

[Paladin]

I think The Eye of the World was used Exaclty what it needed to be used for.

 

The Borderlanders were loosing the battle at Tarwin's Gap.

 

If Rand had not showed up and turned the Tide Winter would have continued indefinately and the world would have been overun with Shadowspawn.

With all the trouble that Rand has had getting the world ready for TG, Imagine trying that in a permanent winter while the second Trollock Wars are happening around him.

 

He would have lost before he even began.

 

The Eye was very important, and it was used when it was needed. now all that is left is an empty cave and Treebrother's Oak.

[Fains nose]

I think the physical eye itself has no further use, but some information will be learnt or realised from it that will be very important for the LB.  I think this info will come through Moiraine and it will be something she learnt on his first visit

[mossman87]

The Eye is now a true location you can access normally. So I think it is possible to go there with T'A'R now. And Loial says that Treebrother will never fall to the Shadow. It will be an uncorrupted land of grass in the Blight.

 

And I thought there was no relation between T'A'R and One Power, so why the pool of saidin would make it accessible with the use of need?

 

There are some location not accessible within T'A'R : Rhuidean, the Blight, and... hmmmm. Something else perhaps. I think it is because of the uninhabitants. (Or wasn't there something around Rhuidean? A ward or something?)

 

The Eye of the World was a construct of the Power. And thus likely not reflected in T'A'R...

 

Everything within the Wheel is made of the True Source.  Things that aren't accessible in TAR are things not human to that world.  Rhuidean I think was just warded somehow.  But the Blight and Stedding aren't normal to Randland so you can't get there.

If TAR really is the area between worlds, or if it's everyone collective consciousness, or whatever, it's still a True Source construct.

 

RJ said to think of it in terms of quantum mechanics, that's how the OP works in most respects.

[Demiandre]

Well, I saw a video of a french actor about Quantum Physics, and I will never see it the same way anymore...

 

Everything is a construct of the OP, Yes. But it is not the same. The whemel is driven by saidin and saidar. So the Pattern is a construct of the OP. But we don't know, and have been RAFOed with the question if the Creator used the OP to make the world. If yes, then my point is pointless. If no, then it could be different with something made with OP.

 

And another thing : as the location of the Eye shifted constantly, being here and there, could he be reflected in one place in T'A'R? As a door is now open, then closed, and after that inbetween in T'A'R, what would it be like for the Eye?

[bobothebarbarian]

I just don't see what happened in Book 1 to really compare it to: "And if a hurricane isn't the Eye of the World, it's as close as we will come in this world."

The Eye of the World is literally in the middle of Hell, and would be completely gone if Somestha didn't sacrifice himself and make the area grow with it's Pattern-ness.

So here's my question, we have an Eye in the middle of Hell.  In real Randland not sure what they could do there, but they know the area and could Travel there.  Millions of scenarios there.

But what about TAR?  We know the Blight isn't in TAR, but would the Eye?  Because of Somestha would there be an Eye in the middle of Hell there?  That'd be interesting if so, just getting thoughts.

 

  As my quotes below show The Eye of the World was the pool of clean Saidin and it was used up completely.

The Eye was not keeping the blight away the Green Man was the one who did that. After his death even the Green Man's tree was falling to the blight by the next morning. If  Loial had not sang the tree song it would have been corrupted completely  but as it is now it is only tree not corrupted by the blight. So if they tried to Travel there they would be inside of a tree, not that I think it would even be possible.  

"I will not go in with you," the Green Man said. The butterflies around him swirled as if they shared some agitation. "I was set to guard it long, long ago, but it makes me uneasy to come too close. I feel myself being unmade; my end is linked with it, somehow. I remember the making of it. Some of the making. Some."

---

A hundred of them made it, men and women together. The greatest Aes Sedai works were always done so, joining Saidin and Saidar, as the True Source is joined. They died, all, to make it pure, while the world was torn around them.

---

Below it, a pool took up the entire cavern, except for the walkway around it, perhaps five paces wide. In the oval shape of an eye, the pool was lined about its rite with a low, flat edging of crystals that glowed with a duller, yet fiercer, light than those above. Its surface was as smooth as glass and as clear as the Winespring Water. Rand felt as if his eyes could penetrate it forever, but he could not see any bottom to it. "The Eye of the World," Moiraine said softly beside him.

---

I begin to wonder," Moiraine said. "The Eye of the World was made against the greatest need the world would ever face, but was it made for the use to which . . . we . . . put it, or to guard these things

---

Rand became aware of what he had been seeing all along, but not noticing. Dead, brown leaves falling from the great oak. Dead leaves rustling thick on the ground in the breeze, brown mixed with petals dropped from thousands of flowers. The Green Man had held back the Blight, but already the Blight was killing what he had made.

---

a thin circle of flowers and grass centered on the thick trunk above the Green Man's grave. The oak itself retained only half its leaves, and that was far more than any other tree had, as if some remnant of the Green Man still fought to hold there

---

Loial knelt, closing his eyes and stretching out his arms. The tufts on his ears stood straight as he lifted his face to the sky. And he sang

---

"I've never sung so hard before. I could not have done it if something of Treebrother was not still there. My Treesongs do not have his power." When he settled himself in his saddle, there was satisfaction in the look he gave the oak and the flowers. "This little space, at least, will not sink into the Blight. The Blight will not have Treebrother."

 

As for your RJ quote the center of  a Hurricane is called the Eye And a Hurricane is very powerful.  The dedication for The Great Hunt Means thanks to all the people that helped with disaster relief after the storm.

[The Fisher King]

I have seen the theory postulated before that The Eye was sort of a Filter of Saidin ... if that were the case, it sorta became meaningless after Rand cleansed-up The Taint in WH.

 

 

Fish

[nolirion]

nope The Eye was not a Filter , a few female and young Male Aes'Sedai (those who made Callandor if i am not mistaken ) give their life to cleanse it for the express use of destroying an army of shadow spawn and it as to do with the creator (or the Dark One for that mater) speaking loudly in the skull of Rand.

[Demiandre]

Agree. Except that we don't know who spoke in those terms. DO or else...

[Val Mickey]

We all know RJ used real myths and legends to shape most of the stuff in the books, but I've never come across a story for the Eye of the World. Except in a Neil Gaiman comic.

[bobothebarbarian]

nope The Eye was not a Filter , a few female and young Male Aes'Sedai (those who made Callandor if i am not mistaken ) give their life to cleanse it for the express use of destroying an army of shadow spawn and it as to do with the creator (or the Dark One for that mater) speaking loudly in the skull of Rand.

I had just said this below but Ill quote again just the explanation of the Eye

A hundred of them made it,(The Eye) men and women together. The greatest Aes Sedai works were always done so, joining Saidin and Saidar, as the True Source is joined. They died, all, to make it pure, while the world was torn around them.

So yes you are right The Eye was not a Filter. The Hundred Aes Sedai used their bodies as a Filter to cleanse that small amount of Saidin and they put it and the chest in the pool and asked the Green Man to keep it safe by having his enchanted grove constantly traveling 

"The Eye of the World," Moiraine said softly beside him.

I begin to wonder," Moiraine said. "The Eye of the World was made against the greatest need the world would ever face, but was it made for the use to which . . . we . . . put it, or to guard these things

(the Horn and Dragon Banner)

---

The Eye of the World was beyond the high passes when I found it," Moiraine said. "Better to cross the Mountains of Dhoom in full daylight, at noon, when the Dark One's powers in this world are weakest."

"You talk as if the Eye isn't always in the same place." Egwene spoke to the Aes Sedai, but it was Loial who answered.

"No two among the Ogier have found it in exactly the same place. The Green Man seems to be found where he is needed. But it has always been beyond the high passes.

( I believe that it was not always in the blight The Eye was made 3,000 years ago and it was not all that deep in the blight. The blight has extended miles a lot in that time. Its only been what 40 to 50 years since Malkier fell and the whole kingdom is completely swallowed up. On page 248 of the BWB it talks a lot about the Eye.

As for the voice speaking loudly to Rand.

IT IS NOT HERE.

It was not Rand's thought, making his skull vibrate.

I WILL TAKE NO PART. ONLY THE CHOSEN ONE CAN DO WHAT MUST BE DONE, IF HE WILL.

"Where?" He did not want to say it, but he could not stop himself. "Where?"

---

( immediately after the steps appear and he travels over to the gap.)

---

The haze surrounding him parted, leaving a dome of clear, clean air ten spans high, walled by billowing smoke and dust. Steps rose before him, each standing alone and unsupported, stretching up into the murk that obscured the sun.

NOT HERE.

 

I personally think the Aes Sedai, (based on the foretelling that told then to make the Eye in the first place) added the voice it was something like subliminal instructions to get him to the right location. Or possibly The first manifestation of LTT

[MikeRiley]

The Eye was not keeping the blight away the Green Man was the one who did that. After his death even the Green Man's tree was falling to the blight by the next morning.

 

The Green Man isn't a real living being. It's a construct that man forgot how to make. Why was he set to guard the Eye of the World? Why was anybody? I do think that the Green Man was what kept the Blight away, but that he was also connected with the Eye of the World and he was being used similar to a ter'angreal to cause the properties that were present at the Eye. Being separated from the world, using TAR's Need (I'm not saying it's TAR itself, by the way), not being able to enter more than once.

 

In a sense, the Green Man was the tool that kept the place running and the pool of Saidin was its battery. It was kept unknown from the Dark One because it was pure Saidin, free of the taint. We have Robert Jordan's quote somewhere that Aginor wanted that pool for himself because it would allow him to channel without the Dark One knowing about it. This way its contents - a seal on the prison, the Horn of Valere and the dragon banner would remain hidden and out of the Shadow's hands.

[Luckers]

It's possible the Eye was nothing more than a failed attempt to cleanse saidin, and had no intended use.

[aunt_pol]

I know it's romantic thinking, but I'd like to believe the Eye still retains some purpose. Now that we're on it, though, why does saidin not sing to Rand anymore? Specially now it's clean...

[Duskfire]

We all know RJ used real myths and legends to shape most of the stuff in the books, but I've never come across a story for the Eye of the World. Except in a Neil Gaiman comic.

 

The Holy Grail. Some legends have it as being a bowl and even though its in a specific place it can appear at anytime to someone with great need. It being a legend among the Borderlands where young men go out to try and find it suits the Grail as well. The Green Man himself is the god of fertility in Britian or Ireland or somewhere (forgot where.)

[nolirion]

Do Ogier are a construct of Man ? Do Aes'Sedai built everything in the known World of wot ?

 

It would piss me off if Someshta was only a thing construct by Aes'Sedai

[Val Mickey]

The Holy Grail. Some legends have it as being a bowl and even though its in a specific place it can appear at anytime to someone with great need. It being a legend among the Borderlands where young men go out to try and find it suits the Grail as well. The Green Man himself is the god of fertility in Britian or Ireland or somewhere (forgot where.)

 

Thanks. I'd associated the Grail with sa'angreal and the bowl of the winds, but I should've remembered that RJ is the man to split everything 3 ways.

I know it's romantic thinking, but I'd like to believe the Eye still retains some purpose. Now that we're on it, though, why does saidin not sing to Rand anymore? Specially now it's clean...

 

Do you mean the Choedan Kal's singing?

[Demiandre]

The Holy Grail. Some legends have it as being a bowl and even though its in a specific place it can appear at anytime to someone with great need. It being a legend among the Borderlands where young men go out to try and find it suits the Grail as well. The Green Man himself is the god of fertility in Britian or Ireland or somewhere (forgot where.)

 

Thanks. I'd associated the Grail with sa'angreal and the bowl of the winds, but I should've remembered that RJ is the man to split everything 3 ways.

I know it's romantic thinking, but I'd like to believe the Eye still retains some purpose. Now that we're on it, though, why does saidin not sing to Rand anymore? Specially now it's clean...

 

Do you mean the Choedan Kal's singing?

 

I'd say he's speaking of the chapter where Rand retrieve the Horn from Fain with Loial after the Mirror World, in tGH. Rand was fighting Trolloc, slashing them with his blade, and saidin sang to him. He fought the desire to touch the Source with his blade.

 

But Maybe with the Choedan Kal, I didn't thought about the buried Statue near Cairhien. In Tremonlsien, IIRC. But also in tGH

[MikeRiley]

Do Ogier are a construct of Man ? Do Aes'Sedai built everything in the known World of wot ?

 

It would piss me off if Someshta was only a thing construct by Aes'Sedai

 

The Ogier come from another world. Someshta and all his kind were constructs of the One Power created for agricultural purposes.

[DemandredFO]

I just listened to the part with Aginor at the Eye, "he guided us", pointing at Mat "an old friend an old enemy.  I'm guessing the Foresaken must know what the SL evil is.  I wonder if it was some type of Shadowspawn that turned on its creators.  I'm guessing no one knew of this evil or Saidin could've been cleansed 3000 years ago.