The Dark One's real plan is to...

[DocBean]

The Dark One's real plan is to die.

 

I've always believed that the Dark One is tied to the wheel and time itself.

I understand the bit about him being sealed outside of the pattern, and the True source moving the wheel and yadda yadda yadda....

 

Picture this, the Creator formed a big spinning wheel. He then took some Cotton (souls) and spun them into thread.

He pushes a bunch of threads into the wheel which forms a nice tapestry.

The Dark One's job is to pull that Tapestry along the line (Time itself)

Therefore the Dark One is Time, and hates his crappy job.

The Dark One can control souls that have died, because his part of the job happens after the tapestry has been woven.

He has to hand that cotton as if falls out back to the Creator who spins them back into the Wheel.

 

So what if the Dark One doesn't want to be released so he can smash the wheel like Moridin thinks?

What if what the Dark One wants is for Rand to kill him? In that way his death would end all things.

The Tapestry will fall without something to pull it along.

 

what if Lew's voice wasn't Lews at all, but the Dark One's voice seeping into Rand?

Is it possible that Rand is so tightly controlled by the fabric of time that he can hear the Dark One's thoughts?

He's always wishing for death. Rand's subconscious connects those thoughts with thoughts of Illyana and his past life.

He doesn't make the connection that it isn't Lews, it's actually the Emotional Dark One.

 

I think if the Dark One dies, everything dies.

I think Rand is really going to screw things up permanently if he kills the Dark One.

better off sealing that bastard up again.

 

The Dark One is trying to kill himself with the Tapestry. Once he gets a hole big enough he'll stick his head through and hope for

Rand's thread to choke himself to death.

Rand really needs to push him back out of the Tapestry, and seal that hole up again.

 

Lews voice goes away when the Dark One gets his head in the fabric.

At that point he's stopped talking to himself, and is thinking only about "is this hole big enough for my head?"

 

Poor bastard, I'm really starting to feel for the guy. (The Great Lord that is)

[Damer_Flinn]

Makes sence (i.e : 'Sightblinder means to blind the Eye of the World...To kill the Great Serpent' 'Could he really do that... Kill time itself?'

The Dark One is the Great Serpent. And why not? Who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden? BTW LoL @ 'the Emotional Dark One'

[farthammer]

This general idea gets posted all the time, actually theoryland's front page still has one up where the author tries to find every bit of evidence in the storyline he can find to argue Dark One = Great Serpent.  I think it's a bit weak and is overly reliant on metaphor, past the point I think RJ intended.

[Damer_Flinn]

Thank you Farthammer...for the link and the awesome handle (mostly the handle).

[JakeBarnes]

The Dark One's real plan is to steal the Lord Ruler's atium cache.

[DocBean]

This general idea gets posted all the time, actually theoryland's front page still has one up where the author tries to find every bit of evidence in the storyline he can find to argue Dark One = Great Serpent.  I think it's a bit weak and is overly reliant on metaphor, past the point I think RJ intended.

 

This is exactly what I'm thinking!

This guy's quote is the best way to put it:

Good and Evil. Jordan was a strong believer in a need for an absolute good and an absolute evil. Need, mind you. You must have absolute evil. Now, taking the old adage "A masochist says Hurt Me, a Sadist says No," what is the most evil thing the Dark One could do in a world that needs him? Leave it. Additionally, on the "decisions without enough information" theme, Rand has made the decision that killing the Dark One is what he needs to do. He does not have enough information, though, so this could very well be a bad decision.

[DocBean]

It's also important to note that Rand decided he would kill the Dark One after he touched the True Power.

 

It's possible that touching the true source is the Dark One's best way to affect Rand.

He began compulsing people by simply talking to them, and lets out a black aura and deathly stink to Hurin.

 

The very first scene in the Eye of the World shows Lews Therin killing himself AFTER being effected by the taint.

That taint is part of the Dark One. The Dark One's nature is to kill itself; however, this time when Rand touched the

power of the Dark One his first reaction to EVERYTHING is to kill.

 

The Dark One wants Rand to kill.

 

The other great point that someone made is that RJ said in previous turnings of the Wheel of Time the Dragon

was converted to the Shadow - which lead to a draw and the next Age began.

 

Why would the next Age begin if the Dragon turned Evil? Because the Dark One wouldn't be killed by the Dragon.

It's possible that Rand could move over to the Shadow, and time would still move on. What we're seeing is that Rand

isn't willing to let time keep turning, he wants to end it all and truly die.

 

The last battle lasted over 100 years. I've been questioning for months why in the world if the Bore was open

and the Dark One was allowed freedom couldn't he do more damage in that amount of time?

 

Randland eternity has NOTHING to fear if the Dark One is released because he doesn't really have much power.

He can suck people down into the ground, and make the dead walk, but he can't stop them from being spun out again.

 

 

[jemron]

It's also important to note that Rand decided he would kill the Dark One after he touched the True Source.

 

It's possible that touching the true source is the Dark One's best way to affect Rand.

He began compulsing people by simply talking to them, and lets out a black aura and deathly stink to Hurin.

 

The very first scene in the Eye of the World shows Lews Therin killing himself AFTER being effected by the taint.

That taint is part of the Dark One. The Dark One's nature is to kill itself; however, this time when Rand touched the

power of the Dark One his first reaction to EVERYTHING is to kill.

 

The Dark One wants Rand to kill.

 

The other great point that someone made is that RJ said in previous turnings of the Wheel of Time the Dragon

was converted to the Shadow - which lead to a draw and the next Age began.

 

Why would the next Age begin if the Dragon turned Evil? Because the Dark One wouldn't be killed by the Dragon.

It's possible that Rand could move over to the Shadow, and time would still move on. What we're seeing is that Rand

isn't willing to let time keep turning, he wants to end it all and truly die.

 

The last battle lasted over 100 years. I've been questioning for months why in the world if the Bore was open

and the Dark One was allowed freedom couldn't he do more damage in that amount of time?

 

Randland eternity has NOTHING to fear if the Dark One is released because he doesn't really have much power.

He can suck people down into the ground, and make the dead walk, but he can't stop them from being spun out again.

 

 

 

True Power.  True POWER people!

[lews reborn]

The other great point that someone made is that RJ said in previous turnings of the Wheel of Time the Dragon

was converted to the Shadow - which lead to a draw and the next Age

 

 

 

I thought Ishmael tells Rand that the champion of light has been previously turned to the shadow. It was never stated in any of the books that the Dragon Reborn is the champion of light. It always made me think that Ishmael was the champion of light and turned to the DO and will once again turn to the light and merge with Rand to defeat the DO.

[Dagon Thyne]

Come on guys...everyone knows that the Dark One isn't evil...the creator is the DO's older brother and locked him in  the cosmic closet. 

[DocBean]

The other great point that someone made is that RJ said in previous turnings of the Wheel of Time the Dragon

was converted to the Shadow - which lead to a draw and the next Age

 

 

 

I thought Ishmael tells Rand that the champion of light has been previously turned to the shadow. It was never stated in any of the books that the Dragon Reborn is the champion of light. It always made me think that Ishmael was the champion of light and turned to the DO and will once again turn to the light and merge with Rand to defeat the DO.

 

You're saying you think Ishy is the Champion of Light, not Rand?

that's interesting.

 

I've been one of the believers that Rand could turn Ishy (or any of the Forsaken) against the Dark One, but never thought Moridin could be the savior.

Seems to go against all we know of Lews/Ishmael/and what we know of the Age of Legends.

 

Which is another problem I have with this being the end of an Age. Aren't all memories of a previous age supposed to be forgotten by the time a new Age begins?

Of course we'll remember the 3rd Age in Randland, but we're also going to have lots of characters who remember the Age of Legends.

Even the Age of Legends is still regarded as Legend, and not yet become Myth.

 

[DocBean]

What if at the end of this thing Rand Stabs the Dark One in the Heart with Callendor killing him.

Thus fulfilling that prophecy of Rand Stabbing Callendor into the Heart to capture their hearts.

Logain will be the one to pull it out and follow after. I've always thought Rand misread that prophecy.

 

However, Once Rand kills the Dark One, he sees a smile on his face, and at that moment realizes what he's done.

 

He then has Logain or Alivia Balefire Rand, or does it to himself.

Which brings the Dark One back, and fulfills another prophecy. To live you must die.

and possibly the viewing of Min with Alivia helping him die.

 

If Rand does it to himself, it's possible that he will come back too, but I don't think this will happen.

 

He then seals the Dark One up for another age.

Or Logain does it, and that fulfills the prophecy about he who follows after. (sealing the Dark one, Like the Dragon had done before)

Also Min's viewing of Logain stepping over a Paper corpse of Rand to achieve a greater glory.

 

This time it's possible that Egwene and her ability to create Cullendiear (sp?) so quickly might create some new type of band-aid.

and the combination of the Male and Female halves of the Power could strengthen it so much that He's forgotten for a long enough time that no one knows he's there.

Until of course a Lanfear in the Future/Past discovers him again.

[jemron]

Cool!  Though I'm not sure exactly what the Dark One is, or if he has a physical heart or not.  But still, very cool idea!

[talligan]

He might go all David Gemmell on us where Rand sort of becomes one with the great lord of the dark and Logain balefire's him.

 

[DocBean]

He might go all David Gemmell on us where Rand sort of becomes one with the great lord of the dark and Logain balefire's him.

 

 

He could.

then that would fulfill the 3 become 1 fortelling. (Moridin being the third)

 

He could then "sheath the sword," with Callendor into his own heart, and while dying realize what he's done and request the Balefire.

 

I like my version a little better because the Dark One would have already been killed at that point.

This way the wouldn't know to balefire him, if he's dead.

[lews reborn]

The other great point that someone made is that RJ said in previous turnings of the Wheel of Time the Dragon

was converted to the Shadow - which lead to a draw and the next Age

 

 

 

I thought Ishmael tells Rand that the champion of light has been previously turned to the shadow. It was never stated in any of the books that the Dragon Reborn is the champion of light. It always made me think that Ishmael was the champion of light and turned to the DO and will once again turn to the light and merge with Rand to defeat the DO.

 

You're saying you think Ishy is the Champion of Light, not Rand?

that's interesting.

 

I've been one of the believers that Rand could turn Ishy (or any of the Forsaken) against the Dark One, but never thought Moridin could be the savior.

Seems to go against all we know of Lews/Ishmael/and what we know of the Age of Legends.

 

Which is another problem I have with this being the end of an Age. Aren't all memories of a previous age supposed to be forgotten by the time a new Age begins?

Of course we'll remember the 3rd Age in Randland, but we're also going to have lots of characters who remember the Age of Legends.

Even the Age of Legends is still regarded as Legend, and not yet become Myth.

 

 

 

 

Ishy was known as betrayer of hope and i always thought that was where it originated from. We know that Ishy was a well known philosopher and the reason he turned to the DO was because he could never see the light winning an endless battle. I figure Rand could convince him to walk in the light with their shared connection and the fact that rand just got out of a darkness of his own.

    I see what you mean about the whole time aspect but did Herid Fel ( sorry cant remember his name ) not say that there has to be a rememberence of the DO in another age to still have the fear in him for when the dragon is reborn and for the people of Randland to have forgotten about him for when the bore is reopened to find a new power. so there would be a small knowlledge brought through the next couple of ages. probably wrong though :)

[Vermillion]

The only thing we know for sure is that there is a end game plan with Rand.  

 

I assume the DO assumes that Rand is virtually unkillable due to being ta'veren.  Or that killing him will causes an even harsher readjusting of the pattern by the Wheel.  Rather attempt to kill him all the time, they are trying to destroy his ability to get the point of resealing.  

 

But perhaps you are right that the DO would die if released and he is time. Its a different angle than most.  

 

Essentially Lanfear and the other guy created a hole in the pattern accessing the DO's "prison."  The DO is the lord of the grave which is why he can bring people back to life.  It is likely why he knows Rand was born but he just gives the souls back to the pattern as demanded and doesn't know who he was.  Maybe he is Moridin/Ishy and hates his job or having to repeat it forever.

 

I look at the bore like getting a small tear in middle of a threaded material and someone trying to climb through.  At first all you can do is stick your finger through, then two fingers, then three and then a hand.  With the Wheel of Time this is the lives of everyone which is why things are distorted and corrupted as the pattern is being destroyed and unable to correct itself do to the DO interference.  I looked at the difference between DO's influence and balefire which is balefire is self correcting even though it creates paradoxes.  

 

And for the DO to win he just has to bide his time to rip open the Pattern to get out by what we know. Rand and crew are essentially stitch work to used to seal the pattern.  The Pattern sends out Ta'vern that are focal points to the stitch damage when needed.  What happened with LTT is that instead of sealing it he put a patch on the bore.  It patched the bore and stopped the tear from spreading. But whats going on right now is that over the years the DO has wiggled his finger through that patch and is opening that up too because it wasn't as strong as the original material.

 

Anyway it goes the theological mystery of the creator/pattern/dark one is still largely a mystery after 12 books.  

 

I doubt Rand will kill the DO but I he may get to that point but instead figures out that he will have to sacrifice or do some way of the leaf bit.  I don't think the way of the leaf is there for the people of the dragon for no reason.

 

 

[Noreallyjustsomeguy]

The Dark One isn't going to die.  I don't even think that's really possible.

 

The Dark One is not the same as time.  The Dark One is imprisoned by time, outside the Pattern (which is simply the sum of events).  He is the essence of chaos, the precise opposite of time, which is the embodiment of order.

 

What is time, exactly?  One of the more interesting definitions I've ever read is that "Time is what keeps everything from happening at once."  This is why the Dark One was imprisoned outside the Pattern at the moment of Creation, because as soon as time existed, the chaotic nature of the Dark One was excluded from the events of "reality".

 

Various comments from Jordan make it clear that the Dark One's main priority is power, and his main source of anger is any limitation on that power.  So, naturally he's pretty pissed off that the Pattern exists, since the very nature of time limits his power.  Remember, we've only seen him really pissed once: when he told Demandred that "EVEN I CANNOT STEP OUTSIDE OF TIME" in the prologue to Lord of Chaos.  He has no problem with balefire being unleashed, because it weakens the fabric of reality by interfering with the flow of events through time (again, it may not be coincidence that Rand went balefire nuts with his plan to kill Graendal after touching the True Power).

 

The Dark One's plan is to destroy the Pattern, by destroying time itself.  This will not kill him, it will remake everything into a purely chaotic state, giving him (paradoxically, because as Verin said, that is his nature) total control.  There will be no time to differentiate anything. and he will have total control because he will be the only remaining entity in existence.

 

(This is, incidentally, why Moridin gets to keep the top seat even when he screws up.  He is an honest and commited existential nihilist: he knows the Dark One plans to destroy all of existence, and he's ok with that.  So, he is the only servant the Dark One can actually trust.)

 

As far as stabbing the Dark One in the heart ... the Dark One isn't a man.  He doesn't have a body.  He's not even male, "he" is just a term of convenience.  So, no stabbing in the heart, sorry.

[bobothebarbarian]

Come on guys...everyone knows that the Dark One isn't evil...the creator is the DO's older brother and locked him in  the cosmic closet. 

haha the creator is the DO's older brother this is from my Topic: Insanely hilarious theories (just for the fun of it)  http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,58622.0.htmlthe one that goes along with this one is my theory of the Creator, Dark one, time, good, and evil .

1. The DO and the creator are brothers and have been playing games with each other over and over for all of time. Each brother made up a game and the rules/pieces i.e. laws of nature/and humanity. The Creator/older bro got to go first his game is called RANDY-LAND ;D. Because the creator and the DO are brothers. Each one picks a color black or white each complete turn of the wheel or (timer). all of the pieces have to be moved in certain ways depending on what level (Or what age) it is in. Each brother must move certain ways depending on what color they have this turn i.e. black is evil white good

The only way for DO to win this game of RANDY-LAND so completely  that he gets to make up his own game with completely different rules and pieces is for all of his pieces to be laid out just right at just the right time then the pieces must act perfectly to plan. The dark one is concluding  “that the only way to win is to cheat” so that’s why it has never happened. So now he wants to break the wheel of time and cheat(I imagine it as if the DO looks over at the clock “or wheel of time” and saying to himself, I am so sick of playing randy-land! I want to play monopoly or marbles with the planets or whatever game he made up.

[move](Personally I think that he wants to play chutes and ladders)

[/move]

 

Object of randy-land

For the DO to get his own body into the game world from their living room “prison”  completely through a little hole (and I think he is kind of a chubby guy) his big bro likes to tease him about his weight . Then do a happy dance in the game world all in a certain time period

Rules

1.   The DO is only allowed to wriggle and squeeze his butt down the hole when _________ conditions are met on the game board

2.   the _______ types of conditions on the board determine the speed at which he can get through

3.   the main Pieces or ”taveren” can not be killed just given a time out

4.   they can be physically placed or born  by a player. Then happen all the variables that piece can choose. The piece must have free will.

5.   If every one of the variables aligns just right then the DO wins and its bye humans hello puppy and iron

6.   A lot of the variables contradict each other (can’t win without cheating not allowed to cheat) a lot like the game of Snakes and Foxes

So the DO is basically climbing out of the hole. If he gets out all the way then does a happy dance. Its time for his game. He just has his foot still in the hole. He really doesn’t want to play Randy-Land again but even if he ends a level/age with the kingfisher if he didn’t win total victory (meaning all the conditions have been met) witch would let him say I want to play monopoly. He still loses in a way. So this turn he decides to cheat first by telling Ishmael about the game, changing his free will.  then makes Shadar haran as his hand (so he can make secret moves while Big Bro is not looking)

to see more like this or if you have a idea like this visit the http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,58622.0.htmlInsanely hilarious theories thread

[DocBean]

As far as stabbing the Dark One in the heart ... the Dark One isn't a man.  He doesn't have a body.  He's not even male, "he" is just a term of convenience.  So, no stabbing in the heart, sorry.

 

I think the Dark One will have a body, and that body is Shiadar Haran (sp?).

Even if that body is just a manifestation of Chaotic Energy that is the Dark One, as your theory outlines.

 

I think for the story there will be a physical representation of the Dark One, and he will have a heart.

 

We've seen Forsaken's thoughts on the Super Fade, and they seem more then willing to treat it as the Dark One himself.

Which implies that in the past the Dark One has taken physical form.

However, we've also seen Lews Therin opt to seal up the Dark One, rather then kill it, so it's very possible that the Dark One never took a physical form before, and you are correct.

[Barid Bel Medar]

The theory is interesting, but really, I would be annoyed if that actually happens.

 

I think the DO is exactly what all references and RJ has said "him" to be, an evil entity sealed outside of creation, who wants to destroy the pattern. There havent been enough allusions to your idea, its really (no offence) picking at straws from vague possible meanings, and even then, its streching it.

nothing RJ or the books have even suggested, with any actual certainty (as said before, the quotes are picking at straws that MAY 1% allude toyour theory) that this could be true, I think RJ is too good a writer to reveal something as big and totally crazy as this in the final book.

[Ozzie_aiel]

I believe the Dark One to be the polar opposite on the Creator, two sides of the same coin if you will. If the dark one wins, he will break the wheel and remake in his own image, becoming, therefore, the Creator, while the current Creator becomes the new Dark One.

 

As for Rand defeating him, that will mean a trip into the Pit of Doom, using the dagger Ter'angreal that hides him from the Shadows sight. As for dying and living again, lets not forget the Pit of Doom has already seen a few people bought back from the dead, and with the Dark One sealed away, there may be enough residual energy to transfer Rands spirit into another vessel, say like Moridins, of an age, height and build as Rand.

[Dagon Thyne]

Come on guys...everyone knows that the Dark One isn't evil...the creator is the DO's older brother and locked him in  the cosmic closet. 

haha the creator is the DO's older brother this is from my Topic: Insanely hilarious theories (just for the fun of it)  http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,58622.0.htmlthe one that goes along with this one is my theory of the Creator, Dark one, time, good, and evil .

1. The DO and the creator are brothers and have been playing games with each other over and over for all of time. Each brother made up a game and the rules/pieces i.e. laws of nature/and humanity. The Creator/older bro got to go first his game is called RANDY-LAND ;D. Because the creator and the DO are brothers. Each one picks a color black or white each complete turn of the wheel or (timer). all of the pieces have to be moved in certain ways depending on what level (Or what age) it is in. Each brother must move certain ways depending on what color they have this turn i.e. black is evil white good

The only way for DO to win this game of RANDY-LAND so completely  that he gets to make up his own game with completely different rules and pieces is for all of his pieces to be laid out just right at just the right time then the pieces must act perfectly to plan. The dark one is concluding  “that the only way to win is to cheat” so that’s why it has never happened. So now he wants to break the wheel of time and cheat(I imagine it as if the DO looks over at the clock “or wheel of time” and saying to himself, I am so sick of playing randy-land! I want to play monopoly or marbles with the planets or whatever game he made up.

[move](Personally I think that he wants to play chutes and ladders)

[/move]

 

Object of randy-land

For the DO to get his own body into the game world from their living room “prison”  completely through a little hole (and I think he is kind of a chubby guy) his big bro likes to tease him about his weight . Then do a happy dance in the game world all in a certain time period

Rules

1.   The DO is only allowed to wriggle and squeeze his butt down the hole when _________ conditions are met on the game board

2.   the _______ types of conditions on the board determine the speed at which he can get through

3.   the main Pieces or ”taveren” can not be killed just given a time out

4.   they can be physically placed or born  by a player. Then happen all the variables that piece can choose. The piece must have free will.

5.   If every one of the variables aligns just right then the DO wins and its bye humans hello puppy and iron

6.   A lot of the variables contradict each other (can’t win without cheating not allowed to cheat) a lot like the game of Snakes and Foxes

So the DO is basically climbing out of the hole. If he gets out all the way then does a happy dance. Its time for his game. He just has his foot still in the hole. He really doesn’t want to play Randy-Land again but even if he ends a level/age with the kingfisher if he didn’t win total victory (meaning all the conditions have been met) witch would let him say I want to play monopoly. He still loses in a way. So this turn he decides to cheat first by telling Ishmael about the game, changing his free will.  then makes Shadar haran as his hand (so he can make secret moves while Big Bro is not looking)

to see more like this or if you have a idea like this visit the http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,58622.0.htmlInsanely hilarious theories thread

 

 

 

 

I ac tually had a theory like this b ut it was serious.....mine was that the Dark One and Creator were both the offspring of the True Source and that they each have a link to it. 

[TheDecline01]

The Dark One isn't going to die.  I don't even think that's really possible.

 

etc...

 

As far as stabbing the Dark One in the heart ... the Dark One isn't a man.  He doesn't have a body.  He's not even male, "he" is just a term of convenience.  So, no stabbing in the heart, sorry.

 

 

I do agree and believe it is so.

How can the Dark One be "killed"?? That would be as if the Creator was killed, and that is a thought that never even ever occurred to anyone so far in the series. I don't think even Ishamael/Moridin has ever thought of "killing" the Creator. And that might be because he knows that the Creator and the Dark One are "made" of the same material, and that they're unkillable by anyone other than each other. I don't see any human being able to kill what's so above him, that created him in a way.

 

Killing the Dark One is like thinking of killing the Creator. It may really piss the Creator off in the end, and so he decides to wipe them all out and start anew. No memories, a new Wheel of time. I kinda like that idea, having a new wheel being started because this one has reached the point where knowledges went too far about the Dark One/the Creator.

 

And the Dakr One plan might be to piss the Creator off.

I know, I like my thoughts to drift away a bit too far some times.

[FarShainMael]

I am reminded of a couple of books by James Blish: 'Black Easter' and 'The Day After Judgment'. In these, a Magician conjures up demons from Hell and turns them loose on the world, but his recall doesn't work and they run riot. They tell him 'G*d is dead'. In the second book, following various unlikely leads, a quartet of significant people including the Magician go down into Hell (which has turned up as the city of Dis, in Death Valley) and confront Satan.. and find out why this has all happened. It turned out that G*d said to Satan: 'You want to be G*d? OK, your turn'. And Satan found that, much as It hated the thought, It had become divine.

 

Perhaps the Creator will give the DO his turn, and see how he likes it!