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cadsuane 's impact


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based on the interview i just read, cadsuane will have a large part to play in da next books....DUUUUH!  i know - but, based on the interview, her actions were enough to surprise harriet!!

 

nice....how often is harriet surprised??javascript:void(0);

 

i am new here....dont mind me...this just caught my eye

 

anyone have any ideas on this?

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Nah. That was a formatting thing. The email came in block. Here's straight from it.

 

10. Are there any characters you really dislike?

Well, the villains of darkest dye, of course, but actually (see above) I love them too.

11. I think one of Jim’s strongest talents was the writing of strong women, and arguably

the strongest is Cadsuane—and she is also the character that fans seem to either love or

hate to great degrees. I’m curious as to your thoughts about her, and her role in the story.

Cadsuane has an important role, for sure; see answer to #10.

 

Which is why I broke it up. As a result what was the answer to 10, became the 11th answer in the set.

 

She was basically just saying that she loves Cadsuane (much as she does all characters, even the dislikeable villians of the darkest dye), and that she has an important role in the story at large. I don't doubt that Cadsuane still has a role to play, but I don't think that was necessarily what she was speaking about.

 

 

 

 

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But what is it? It seems that Rand has already learned laughter and tears, and Caddy's influence on that was indirect. And then there's the matter of the Asha'man. Will she uncover Taim somehow? Something about cross gender links? What?

I certainly hope Cadsuane will do something badass. I like her character, especially when she goes in front of the Wise Ones and straight out admits to failure. And she refuses to leave Rand's proximity even though he's threatened her with death because she really wants to help him. Plus there's the whole Cadsuane figuring out how to break Semirhage by thinking of how she'd break herself. That's not an easy thing to think of. Have you ever thought of how you'd go about torturing information out of yourself?

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I dont realy think she has had much of an impact, only a negative, like turning Min, Nynaeve, Tam, and Rands aes sedai against him, and not protecting the sad bracelet resulting in Rand almost being turned to the shadow and having time and creation itself destroyed...which obviously isnt helpful for winning the last battle. The only role she realy has is that she can co-ordinate the Aes Sedai and Wise Ones to help rand, although the wise ones were already controling the aes sedai who serve rand and they could of used their relationship with egwene to cooperate with the other aes sedai. I realy hope she remembers the meaning of Sedai, and starts acting like one, or else rand is in trouble. I think shel die in the next book after teaching Rand and the Ashaman the thing; and shel die doing something good, like killing the DF wise one and wel get a POV from her and it wil turn out she wasnt such a hateable hoe afteral, she was just trying to help rand but she didnt know what she was doing

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I suspect she'll die before the end of the series, opening the way for Nynaeve to replace her in the position of errant Aes Sedai.

 

My other thought was that she might be the first Aes Sedai to foreswear the Oaths. Cadsuane's always been the type to set succeeding at a task above any sentimentality, so I think she'd be strong enough to endure foreswearing the Oaths irrespective of her personal feeling about them, should she percieve a goal worth that price.

 

not protecting the sad bracelet resulting in Rand almost being turned to the shadow and having time and creation itself destroyed...which obviously isnt helpful for winning the last battle.

 

That's not Cadsuane's fault. She took every precaution availliable, the same degree as say Rand took with Callandor in Tear. That Elza, thanks to Shadar Haren, was able to exceed these precautions with heretofore unknown weaves doesn't mean Cadsuane made a mistake, just that the Shadow is inventive.

 

Had Rand sought to protect them, his wardings would have similarily been overcome.

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How did she turn Min, Nyneave or Tam against Rand? Any turning that was done, was done by Rand.

 

I agree with this. I actually think Cadsuane saved the world by sending Tam to Rand. It was a risk, a make-or-break situation indeed, but it was probably one of the only things she could have done by the time Rand became cuendillar.

 

Plus, the sad bracelets were stolen by Shaidar and given to Semirhage, were they not? Im not 100% on that but thats how I imagined it, and we know Shaidar is capable of many unusual things. Didnt he teach Elza some weaves? If he can do that, Im sure he can bypass saidar woven alarms with the True Power.

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I agree with Luckers.  My suspicion is Cadsuane will be the first Aes Sedai to retire into the Kin and dump the oaths.  If she's been shown to be anything, she's shown to be practical to say the least.  I also recall in some Cadsuane PoV her having thoughts on why other channelers (Windfinders & Wise Ones)don't have the Aes Sedai ageless look.  It's only one more step from here for her to realize it's the oath rod and put it all together.  It's all dependant on this information but if she does recieve it I feel she'll drop it like it's hot.  I hope we get to see Cadsuane realize the oath rod is about to kill her.  This is after she identifies Taim as Moridin and shocks all the Ashaman.  Or she can die in the process of identfying Taim and not enter the Kin, but for the Aes Sedai to adapt and move forward in their fastly evolving world AS need their eyes opened and this would be a step towards accomplishing this in my opinion.

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I agree with Luckers.  My suspicion is Cadsuane will be the first Aes Sedai to retire into the Kin

 

I actually don't know about the 'retire into the Kin' part. Do you see Cadsuane placing herself at a lesser status? Do you see her not doing what she feels needs to be done? Do you see her obeying the chain of command that places her under the White Tower? Not a chance--she doesn't even do that now, when she's supposed to.

 

This is part of why I like the idea of her being the first to retire--she'll underline the major problem with Egwene's plan that Aes Sedai retire into the Kin. Specifically that sooner or later the women with the most experience will all be Kinswomen, and having been Aes Sedai they won't have any delusions about the greatness of Aes Sedai. They'll see things that need doing, and do them, and sooner or later the Kin will be indistinguishable from the Aes Sedai in terms of power, capability and authority, except one is bound and the other not.

 

If Cadsuane, the woman you can't ignore, does it, then it will come to a head now rather than building slowly over time. It will save a whole lot of hassle down the line.

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All very true.  Let's not forget that where Cadsuane is practical Egwene is adaptable, with the exception of the Seachan to date.  I don't think it's much of a stretch for Egwene and Cadsuane to hammer out some kind of workable deal. 

 

Hints of Cadsuane wondering why the difference in channelers appearance and the Wise One's telling Cadsuane that "Egwene is honorable" gives them a connection in this regard.  It's very vague and would seem to come out of left field but a lot of stuff often does which is why WoT re-reads are fun because you recognize them in hindsight. 

 

This is assuming of course that the Mesaana/Tower plotline doesn't resolve the criminal binder issue for Aes Sedai.  *Don't know details but it's one of my hunches/suspicions*  Although AS/Kin relations would still need to be hammered out nonetheless.

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All very true.  Let's not forget that where Cadsuane is practical Egwene is adaptable, with the exception of the Seachan to date.  I don't think it's much of a stretch for Egwene and Cadsuane to hammer out some kind of workable deal. 

 

Exactly. And well said. Whilst Egwene can lock in to things she is adaptable when she is faced with contradiction. So Cadsuane has the practicality to do what needs to be done, and then Egwene has the adaptability to recognise it for what it is.

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I think when she heard Min's viewing concerning her she got big headed.  She knew then men wouldn't like it but it never occurred to her what the cost she would have to pay is.  She even thought she knew what it was she'd teach.

 

I like Cadsuane when she first entered the story but I think she went to far in some areas.  The thing with the SAD bracelets was one of those.

 

She didn't have the one she had to "keep it safe" she had it so she could learn to use it and then maybe use it against the AM and/or Rand.  Rand told her to get rid of all the SAD bracelets and a'dams they recovered in KoD.  She got rid of the a'dam because she would never in a million years use them against a women.  Then she got frustrated none of the AM were willing to try the SAD bracelets on she was even comtplating forcing them on an AM.

 

Bair made a comment of it being "like testing a spear's strength by stabbing someone with it" then Caddy looked at Sorilea like those two both under stood.  Something tells me Sorilea agreed with Bair. 

 

Even through they were kept in a locked box they where still there.  If Caddy did what Rand asked her to in the first place she wouldn't have ended up on his sh!tlist.  I think she has played out her usefulness and even though Rand has learn what he needed to learn he may still charge a heavy price to her.

 

I'm thinking he'll have Egwene exile her to the tower until the AS forces leave for TG.  Then she will just be another rank and file green in the battle lines.

 

That would be sweet.

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She didn't have the one she had to "keep it safe" she had it so she could learn to use it and then maybe use it against the AM and/or Rand.  Rand told her to get rid of all the SAD bracelets and a'dams they recovered in KoD.  She got rid of the a'dam because she would never in a million years use them against a women.  Then she got frustrated none of the AM were willing to try the SAD bracelets on she was even comtplating forcing them on an AM.

 

Bair made a comment of it being "like testing a spear's strength by stabbing someone with it" then Caddy looked at Sorilea like those two both under stood.  Something tells me Sorilea agreed with Bair. 

 

Even through they were kept in a locked box they where still there.  If Caddy did what Rand asked her to in the first place she wouldn't have ended up on his sh!tlist.  I think she has played out her usefulness and even though Rand has learn what he needed to learn he may still charge a heavy price to her.

 

That's not true, she did keep the a'dam, and she tested it on herself. She didn't want to do anything to the asha'man that she wasn't willing to do to herself.

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She didn't have the one she had to "keep it safe" she had it so she could learn to use it and then maybe use it against the AM and/or Rand.  Rand told her to get rid of all the SAD bracelets and a'dams they recovered in KoD.  She got rid of the a'dam because she would never in a million years use them against a women.  Then she got frustrated none of the AM were willing to try the SAD bracelets on she was even comtplating forcing them on an AM.

 

Bair made a comment of it being "like testing a spear's strength by stabbing someone with it" then Caddy looked at Sorilea like those two both under stood.  Something tells me Sorilea agreed with Bair. 

 

Even through they were kept in a locked box they where still there.  If Caddy did what Rand asked her to in the first place she wouldn't have ended up on his sh!tlist.  I think she has played out her usefulness and even though Rand has learn what he needed to learn he may still charge a heavy price to her.

 

That's not true, she did keep the a'dam, and she tested it on herself. She didn't want to do anything to the asha'man that she wasn't willing to do to herself.

 

Indeed, and she, if i am not mistaken, wanted to try the domination band and a'dam for the same purpose, to find a way to defeat it (get it off in most circumstances)

I actually like Cadsuane, she is in many respects, the most like Moiraine in regards to Rand. Yes, she has some faults, shes supremely arrogant and manipulative, but she also has alot of sense, she is willing to admit she is wrong (a very rare trait among AS) and is fair to the AM and even Rand, even though she doesnt tell them everything, she truly has his best intrests at heart.

The failure to protect the Domination band was not hers. How should she be expected to protect against one of the Forsaken, much less a demonic Myrrdraal with unknown powers.

Also, I think that she will teach the AM and Rand something completely different to what she expects (tears and laughter) AM at least, still have the ability to laugh and cry, as much as AS, who rarely do it.

I think its something unexpected, that even she doesnt know

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Comparing Moiraine to Cadsuane is an insult to Moiraine and a Massive complement to Cadsuane. Wait to Moiraine comes back and youl see how much better Moiraine is than Cadsuane.                                                      p.s death to cadsuane                                      p.s.s viva la Moiraine

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I know that there was a time when tears and laughter were mentioned, but was it ever truly mentioned that that is what she was going to teach them?  I dont think so, but I could be wrong.  I thought that it was said rand had to learn to cy and laugh again in order to win, but was it ever truly told that was what she was supposed to do?  Im thinking what she is teaching them that they dont like is manners.  All that she has done with Rand was tell him when he is behaving badly.  IMO i think that is what Rand and the ashaman wont like learning.  Teaching them manners is basically to ground them.  To show them that they have this great power, and (spiderman) with great power comes great responsibility.  You cant go around bullying people just because you are stronger than they are.  Its funny, because that is precisely what she does to people.  Other wise the ashaman will become like Taim.  Someone who really doesnt care about the little people.

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The failure to protect the Domination band was not hers. How should she be expected to protect against one of the Forsaken, much less a demonic Myrrdraal with unknown powers.

 

Since she knew that her enemies were the DO and the Chosen keeping the Denomination Band so close to Rand was at the very least rather shortsighted and foolish.

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The failure to protect the Domination band was not hers. How should she be expected to protect against one of the Forsaken, much less a demonic Myrrdraal with unknown powers.

 

Since she knew that her enemies were the DO and the Chosen keeping the Denomination Band so close to Rand was at the very least rather shortsighted and foolish.

 

What she did was no different to what Rand did with Callandor in Tear. Inverted wardings have never been violated in the past. Not even the Forsaken have achieved it, and Mesaana would have in Tear if she could have, and so too would Sammael in Shadar Logoth.

 

That your enemy pulls some previously unknown and seemingly impossible thing doesn't make it shortsighted for you to not have guarded against it. Indeed, how could Cadsuane have possibly guarded against it? Shadar Haren taught Elza to break the wards, he mesmerized channeling guards on Semirhage... what other precautions could have taken that would have been successful?

 

Cadsuane was overcome. But through no failure of her own, and none other would have done better.

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The failure to protect the Domination band was not hers. How should she be expected to protect against one of the Forsaken, much less a demonic Myrrdraal with unknown powers.

 

Since she knew that her enemies were the DO and the Chosen keeping the Denomination Band so close to Rand was at the very least rather shortsighted and foolish.

 

What she did was no different to what Rand did with Callandor in Tear. Inverted wardings have never been violated in the past. Not even the Forsaken have achieved it, and Mesaana would have in Tear if she could have, and so too would Sammael in Shadar Logoth.

 

That your enemy pulls some previously unknown and seemingly impossible thing doesn't make it shortsighted for you to not have guarded against it. Indeed, how could Cadsuane have possibly guarded against it? Shadar Haren taught Elza to break the wards, he mesmerized channeling guards on Semirhage... what other precautions could have taken that would have been successful?

 

Cadsuane was overcome. But through no failure of her own, and none other would have done better.

 

Don't also forget that if Elayne and Nynaeve had simply taken the original Domination Bands with them, or dumped it in the ocean themselves, instead of trusting the task to Egeanin (who totally miffed it), it would have never been an issue. Their failure is at least on a par with Cadsuane's in this regard. Additionally, physical distance from Rand wouldn't have made that much of a difference -- we are talking about a shadow-traveling fade with direct access to whichever Forsaken he wants assistance from. For all we know, Cadsuane keeping the bands close to her and heavily warded as she did -- in the middle of the Dragon Reborn's camp, surrounded by dozens of channelers and thousands of troops -- made SH's job that much harder.

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I know that there was a time when tears and laughter were mentioned, but was it ever truly mentioned that that is what she was going to teach them?  I dont think so, but I could be wrong.

 

A very good point.

 

Min's viewing: "It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all." - Min, ACoS Ch 41.

 

Then in TPoD Ch 12 Cadsuane and Sorilea take a water oath to "teach Rand al'Thor laughter and tears".

 

Now, although these are often taken as related, I don't think it is definitive - especially as they only agree to teach it to Rand and not all the Asha'men.

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Rand can pass the lesson onto the AM himself. He thought that they were only weapons to be used, but they need something to fight for. Maybe he'll send them to see their families for the day or something to remind themselves that they are human and need love or something worth fighting for. So Cadsuanes lesson can be passed from Rand to the rest of the men.

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I know that there was a time when tears and laughter were mentioned, but was it ever truly mentioned that that is what she was going to teach them?  I dont think so, but I could be wrong.  I thought that it was said rand had to learn to cy and laugh again in order to win, but was it ever truly told that was what she was supposed to do?

 

From EncWoT:

 

Min has a viewing about Rand in aCoS Ch 41:   "It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

 

Later, in tPoD Ch 12, Sorilea offers Cadsuane water oath to teach Rand laughter and tears and Cadsuane accepts.

 

But, of course, the latter doesn't necessarily follow from the former. Drat lambada got there first!

 

 

Don't also forget that if Elayne and Nynaeve had simply taken the original Domination Bands with them, or dumped it in the ocean themselves, instead of trusting the task to Egeanin (who totally miffed it), it would have never been an issue.

 

Unless, of course, SH can deep-dive..

 

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Don't also forget that if Elayne and Nynaeve had simply taken the original Domination Bands with them, or dumped it in the ocean themselves, instead of trusting the task to Egeanin (who totally miffed it), it would have never been an issue.

 

Unless, of course, SH can deep-dive..

 

 

Finding the darned thing in the first place would have probably been the bigger problem.

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