ogier

[michael1941]

what do you think will happen if the seanchan ogier meet with the peaceful ogier and those that dont serve the seanchan?

[Astus]

Make babies?

 

Nah, it should be an interesting confrontation. I doubt it would be heavily antagonistic. There might be more similarities than one could grasp.

[yoniy0]

What's really interesting is this - how will the Seanchan Ogier take to the fact that the Randlanders are considering opening the Book of Translation on their own?

[michael1941]

I wonder if the seanchan ogier even know what the book of translation is?

[Charlz Guybon]

Is it clear in the text that the Westland Ogier know about the Seanchan Ogier yet? I'd assume Loial ran into them or at least heard about them in Ebou Dar but I can't recall if this was so.

[Majsju]

Just the (lack of) reaction from te Seanchan when he met them should tell loial that Ogier are common enough in Seanchan that people recognise them for what they are. So even without seeing a single one he knows at least that much.

 

Not so sure that he actually saw one of the Gardeners, that seems like something he would have mentioned, since it would be huge deal for any Randland Ogier.

[Silentvoice]

I expect that the meeting wouldn't be very interesting. The Seanchan are very rigid. Their Ogiers wouldn't place curiosity above their task, and would likely act just as indifferent to the mainland Ogiers as they do to everybody on the mainland.

[yoniy0]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. They have some kind of arrangement with the Crystal Throne, which they adhere to rigidly, true (but what would you expect of Ogier, really?). However, we know nothing about the terms of that agreement, and it might be that a certain event, like the opening of the Book of Translation, will cause it to be nullified. We might see them all just up and leave once they've learned of it.

[Silentvoice]

I wouldn't be too sure about that. They have some kind of arrangement with the Crystal Throne, which they adhere to rigidly, true (but what would you expect of Ogier, really?). However, we know nothing about the terms of that agreement, and it might be that a certain event, like the opening of the Book of Translation, will cause it to be nullified. We might see them all just up and leave once they've learned of it.

 

It's likely they have never heard of the Book of Translation, since it is apparently held on the mainland (that is, if it really is a physical thing).

 

 

I make my claim based on what we know of the Seanchan in general. The only thing we really know specifically about their Ogier is that they aren't property, where others in their same position would be.

 

 

[yoniy0]

It's likely they have never heard of the Book of Translation, since it is apparently held on the mainland (that is, if it really is a physical thing).

It hasn't been that many generations since the War of Power for the Ogier, and on top of that, the Seanchan Ogier didn't go through the trauma their Randland counterparts went through (hence no Longing in Seanchan). It's very unlikely IMO that they've forgotten about the fact that they're not native to this world, and that some day they would be going back home.

[Silentvoice]

It's likely they have never heard of the Book of Translation, since it is apparently held on the mainland (that is, if it really is a physical thing).

It hasn't been that many generations since the War of Power for the Ogier, and on top of that, the Seanchan Ogier didn't go through the trauma their Randland counterparts went through (hence no Longing in Seanchan). It's very unlikely IMO that they've forgotten about the fact that they're not native to this world, and that some day they would be going back home.

 

Maybe, it could be argued either way. How many generations it would take for a people to forget something like that isn't something I'd know how to calculate. Three generations might be enough, but the war of power was further back than that, even by Ogier reckoning.

 

Did I miss something in the books that indicate their Ogiers do not experience the Longing? I think the only way we could say this for sure is if there were no Steddings in Seanchan.

[Durinax]

It's likely they have never heard of the Book of Translation, since it is apparently held on the mainland (that is, if it really is a physical thing).

It hasn't been that many generations since the War of Power for the Ogier, and on top of that, the Seanchan Ogier didn't go through the trauma their Randland counterparts went through (hence no Longing in Seanchan). It's very unlikely IMO that they've forgotten about the fact that they're not native to this world, and that some day they would be going back home.

 

Maybe, it could be argued either way. How many generations it would take for a people to forget something like that isn't something I'd know how to calculate. Three generations might be enough, but the war of power was further back than that, even by Ogier reckoning.

 

Did I miss something in the books that indicate their Ogiers do not experience the Longing? I think the only way we could say this for sure is if there were no Steddings in Seanchan.

its fairly safe to assume since we have seen no indications that those ogier are linked to stedding, plus with a long boat trip to randland and karede or who ever commands teh deathwatch not thinking about it, its reasonable to assume

[Majsju]

There are a lot more stedding in Seanchan, so the Ogier there were never separated from the Stedding, and thus never developed the Longing.

[Never]

Bringing up a subject close to this: the ways were made before the breaking, right?

If so, some wayports lead to the Seanchan empire, probably. So, there might have been contact? Am I off on this? Not sure exactly when the ways became untravelable..

[Thor]

The ways were made BECAUSE of the breaking, not before. The male aes sedai gave them the key to grow the waves as a thank you gift for shelter as well as an apology for the torn landscape which made travelling between steddings difficult.

[Never]

Oh yeah, that's right! Thanks :)

[Vermillion]

Thats one that always seemed like an error to me.  The steddings were lost during the breaking but also kept the Male AS.  How could it be possible if they were lost?

[farthammer]

The breaking wasn't exactly a single event, it went on for a long time.  You could have a time period where they were lost and then rediscovered.

[Thor]

It went like this. LTT + 100 companion went mad instantly, started destroying the world. Eventually they were all killed or killed themselves. Gradually more and more were going insane, but the Aes Sedai did not know exactly what is causing it. When they realized, some sought refuge inside steddings.

 

But the urge to channel was too great, and they all left eventually.  There were already numerous threads arguing whether it would have been better if they all went insane at the same time or if the way it happened was the best outcome.

[Matrim DeLaneous]

There are a lot more stedding in Seanchan, so the Ogier there were never separated from the Stedding, and thus never developed the Longing.

This is interesting.  I'm not sure why but I always assumed the Seanchan Ogier originated from Randland and rode over with Luthair? 

[Snarf]

I'm curious as to whether the reading of the Book of Translation would affect all Ogier, or just the Ogier involved.  Perhaps some Ogier would choose not to be involved with the Book, instead deciding to help with TG.  And maybe other Randland Ogier have been away from the stedding long enough not to know of the Great Stump being called, and what descision is being discussed.  (Though, I find this scenario doubtful.)  If the reading causes all Ogier to leave this world, then the reading should affect the Seanchan Ogier as well.

[farthammer]

I wonder if this will tie in Verin's little red book of translation, the tome containing the key to unlock all the knowledge she acquired.