The Band of the Red Hand in Towers of Midnight

[Random Man]

This has gotten a bit off topic. I don't see the Band playing much of a role in fighting the Black Tower. Any rouge Ash'man who come against them will be Dreadlords for the inevitable Trolloc horde and ensuing siege.

 

The Band's Foot will man the wall while the Horse will harry the flanks and rear via gateways.

what role might the Dragons play in this? They're going to be introduced at some point.

 

I'd like to see a gateway opened near the enemy so they can fire a barrage of Dragons Eggs through it at point-blank range and close it really quickly, then rinse and repeat. Or keep the gateway open after the initial barrage and send through fast crossbowmen to rip through the stunned enemy's flanks and rear. Rand's use of the Gate Assault against the Seanchan wasn't employed nearly to the extent that a devious military mind like Mat could think up.

 

The Dragons will probably be placed on the wall towers. They'll have the most range there and have a bigger firing arc.

 

That would be risky, we know from Asmodean that Demandred can stop a gateway from closing. Of course, no one on the side of the light except for Rand knows that.

Elayne's got enough channelers to form full circles, so I don't think that Demandred's interference will be that much of a problem. A circle of 13 will be able to bat aside any weave he makes (assuming he doesn't get the drop on them -- if he, say, crumbles the masonry over their heads and they don't notice it in time, bye-bye circle). If gateways were used for the Band's crossbowmen to assault the flanks of an attacking force, though, Demandred's going to want those gateways closed, and not left open, in any event. I am envisioning gateways popping open on the flanks and ranks of crossbowmen spilling out, firing as they move through, pushing forward. As more come out, they keep sending lethal volleys into the vulnerable flanks and rear of the attacking force. I'm thinking the effect would be along the lines of Hannibal at Cannae where Hannibal's inferior force managed to envelop the larger Roman army and massacred them.

[Charlz Guybon]

It's the ability to pop open for a quick volley in one place, close and pop open in an other for another volley that makes them dangerous. If they're kept open the Trollocs could zerg rush their way into the city.

[Sharaman]

Trollocs can't use Gates.

But this sort of scenario is why I'd asked (in the simple thread) if anybody in the WoT Third Age has started working on developing warding against Travel. We know it's possible and it happened in the War of Power.

 

 

[Charlz Guybon]

Trollocs can't use Gates.

But this sort of scenario is why I'd asked (in the simple thread) if anybody in the WoT Third Age has started working on developing warding against Travel. We know it's possible and it happened in the War of Power.

 

 

Can't believe I forgot about that bit for a moment.

[Barid Bel Medar]

Alright, they probably wont think of this before TG, but I would use this tactic against shadowspawn (who cant travel through gateways)

 

Spotting a trolloc army, I would create a wall of gateways, like a square, boxing the trollocs in, have archers shoot through the gateways from all sides, it would be a massacre while the shadowspawn could do relatively little (only a few trollocs use crossbows). Seems like a simple plan, although it would take precise Travelling and alot of channelers i suppose, still, even using smaller "boxes" would be efficiant in destroying fists etc..

 

Just on the note of Logain not becomming new M'hael.

Remember Rand didnt like Taim making new ranks, but cbf doing anything about it. I am assuming if Logain "frees" the BT, he wont continue using the same system. Its like you wouldnt keep using the word "Nazi" and "Fhurer" after Hitler

[Tollieman]

The usage of gateways in battle would get very very confusing. I would imagine someone like Demandred, Rand and Mat (if he has the use) knowing that if they can use it, so can the opposition, and plan accordingly. Also hugely depends on location and type of battle, defence, attack and time for planning etc. This is why I probably wouldn't make a good general, slow to think (and not the Perrin 'slow')  ;D

 

I'm sure there was something about having a city warded in 'boxes' and if a man is detected channeling, BOOM.

 

I'd have something similar for gateways, I'm sure it's possible. Someone already said that Demandred lived in an era where he'd consider Mat's crossbows and dragons the equivalent of how we see flintlocks and trebuchets now!

 

It'll take one or two volleys before he knows what's potting. Mat's luck that he hits Demandred in that first go before he opens his mouth?

 

I can't wait to see how the Band is used, and also what Rand thinks of them and how he hopes to utilises them. I love the military side to the story, especially the Band (and Mat's storyline, obviously).

[gambril]

The next major engagement will most likely be in Caemlynn.  Throughout the story Mat has been "proving" himself to be a worthy knight to Elayne - regardless of whether people think Elayne is suitable for this task.  First he defeated two of her knights - Galad & Gawyn.  The second time he saved her life from the Gholam in Ebou Dar.  And the third feat to prove his "worthiness" or as we would say, his awesomeness will be to defend the queen's castle ala Caemlynn.

 

In ToM the whole Band will be re-united in Caemlynn and it's safe to say that the book will cover at least a month which is like 40 days in Randland?  His first step once he reaches Caemlynn will be to start production of the cannons.  I have no idea how long this takes, maybe 2-3 weeks to get 50 or more once production starts?  Regardless,  for story and plot purposes I would say it's a safe bet that he will have some cannons. 

 

What isn't certain, or rather can't be for sure about is who it will be that threatens Caemlynn?  The Seanchan seem most likely and if it's the Seanchan then it would be even more interesting if Tuon were present when they get dominated by the Band and Elayne's army.  Mat really wants Aludra's dragons to be a total shock to the Seanchan and hopefully he gets his wish so Tuon can eat some humble pie.  It's pretty clear that for the Seanchan to move forward, Tuon has to see Mat as an equal and not as just some useful reference tool she currently sees him as - for the most part she does.

 

Knowing he's going to Tower of Ghenji doesn't help because does this battle occur before he goes or does he come to the battle at the tail end of it with Moiraine in tow?  Regardless of when it occurs, lets hope that it occurs at a time when Mat can be a part of it!

[Random Man]

It's pretty clear that for the Seanchan to move forward, Tuon has to see Mat as an equal and not as just some useful reference tool she currently sees him as - for the most part she does.

 

Slightly off topic: If Fortuona is now the Empress, is Mat still the Prince of the Ravens? Or is he something else now? Prince of the Ravens is referred to as Highness, just as Tuon was with the "veil removed" as Daughter of the Nine Moons (in fact Kadere made it a point to call Tuon "Highness" instead of "High Lady" when she said the veil was removed and Musengee (sp?) also called Mat "Highness"). Does this mean they were technical equals in the Seanchan hirearchy? I'd like to see where Mat being the Empress' husband puts him now according to Seanchan protocol in regards to his wife.

[Sharaman]

What little we know from Tuon's PoV suggests that it's a grossly unequal relationship in terms of power.

She also mentioned that her dad was a gambler who died because he took the wrong bet (paraphrasing)

One possible interpretation is that Rhadannon had him killed because he tried to take power?

 

[haloun]

What little we know from Tuon's PoV suggests that it's a grossly unequal relationship in terms of power.

She also mentioned that her dad was a gambler who died because he took the wrong bet (paraphrasing)

One possible interpretation is that Rhadannon had him killed because he tried to take power?

 

 

i dont know that it is grossly different in power as man and woman i think it depends on who ascended to the throne, because i do believe there have been emperors of seanchan, but i may be wrong, and how much power is allowed to the spouse of the empress/emperor by the one in power.

[Sharaman]

You're raising a straw-man - nobody said the difference was gender based. 

But there hasn't been an emperor in many centuries. Which means that the power inequality between ruler-spouse  translates into gender inequality in practice.

 

[Durinax]

You're raising a straw-man - nobody said the difference was gender based. 

But there hasn't been an emperor in many centuries. Which means that the power inequality between ruler-spouse  translates into gender inequality in practice.

 

well if theres gender inequality in randland why not in seanchan, the fact that there hasnt been a emperor in many centuries supports my theory that all emperors/empresses have to be able to learn to channel, I believe we had a quote that said the last emperor went insane.

[Sharaman]

What we've seen of the Seanchan hierarchy suggests that it isn't as gender-biased as Randland.

There's an Empress and her fave daughter of course. But at least one of her brothers was apparently making a bid for power, which suggests he had a shot at getting it.

 

Of the High Lords/ladies and generals of the Corenne/ Rhyiagelle (sp?), more are male than female.

One reason could be that there is no WT equivalent of Superbabes who channel - they're treated like leashed animals.

 

No comment on your theory about a channeling royal family. Actually it's not a theory since it can't be backed by evidence, just a supposition. Lots of people go insane without the taint to trigger it off.

 

[Random Man]

 

 

No comment on your theory about a channeling royal family. Actually it's not a theory since it can't be backed by evidence, just a supposition. Lots of people go insane without the taint to trigger it off.

 

The genetic part of the ability to channel (whether it be the ability to learn or the spark) is recessive. For Fortuona to be able to learn to channel, both of her parents had to be carriers of the gene, if they did not have the ability to learn themselves. This means the royal family at the least carries this genetic trait.

[Sharaman]

Not exactly.

As I understand it, and RJ was never particularly clear about this, since he had the soul business chucked in, if both parents carried the channeling gene, she would have been a sparker.

In Tuon's case, since she's not a sparker, only one parent would carry the gene.

That might be her father.

 

[Random Man]

Not exactly.

As I understand it, and RJ was never particularly clear about this, since he had the soul business chucked in, if both parents carried the channeling gene, she would have been a sparker.

In Tuon's case, since she's not a sparker, only one parent would carry the gene.

That might be her father.

 

I'm not sure you're correct in saying that you only need one gene to be able to learn how to channel. Yes, RJ wasn't too clear on how the soul figured into it, but on the genetic level, the ability to channel is recessive, meaning you need both recessive genes. If you only needed one of the pair in order to learn to channel, it would be a dominant gene.

[Sharaman]

If I could be bothered I'd fish out the quote.

I think somewhere RJ said that sparkers have the gene from both parents, and non-sparkers have only one copy from one parent.

I'm not an expert on dominant-recessive traits, nor was he clear about this.

 

[Random Man]

If I could be bothered I'd fish out the quote.

I think somewhere RJ said that sparkers have the gene from both parents, and non-sparkers have only one copy from one parent.

I'm not an expert on dominant-recessive traits, nor was he clear about this.

 

I looked for several hours and couldn't fish out that quote. When RJ was on the record, he was pretty ambiguous, saying it involved both the soul and genetics. I got the impression after looking through his various quotes on the subject that he didn't really want to reveal the specifics on the matter. The BWB says that channeling is a genetic recessive trait, but of course it can't be taken as canon. I saw a second-hand reference to an RJ quote saying that a sparker in one life might not be a sparker in the next, but I never found the actual quote. There was some speculation on Theoryland that it's a co-dominant gene (which would have the effect you described) but that would make me wonder why the Sharans would keep male channelers on as breeding stock -- if it's a co-dominant gene, you only need to keep around a group of sparkers and you can breed from them people who can learn to channel. There could, of course, be more than one gene involved. Skin color, for instance, is determined by something like six different genes, which is why the U.S. has so many pretty multiracial people like Tiger Woods and Halle Berry ;D.

[Arthur55]

Well back to Mat and the Red Band, I reckon they are going to Seanshan to rescue his wife, who's been place in Towers of Midnight. Why? u say well its because she can channel. Better to imprison her than put a collar around her neck she is still Royalty.

 

That's my two cents worth.