The Malazan Book of the Fallen Thread

[The Fisher King]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

 

 

Still no. Mappo, Icarium and Crokus sorta begin new story arcs. Icarium's story is really still the same one, Mappo's changes due to losing Icarium. Kruppe, Paran and Heboric very much continue their pre existing ones. Please tell me exactly what separates the pre Tides of Midnight story arcs of those 3 characters from the Post Tides of Midnight story arcs. Because the way I see it: Heboric is still dealing with being a big mixing pot of Jade Giant, Treach and Ottataral. Paran is continuing his story of being the Master of the Deck and Kruppe is pretty much just being Kruppe.

 

 

 

In any case (and this is aimed at whoever posted that he didnt like it after book 4); if you don't like the series at this point, you probably never will. Personally I was tentative after book 1 but after book 2 and 3 I was completely sucked in. Easily one of my favourite series if not THE favourite.

 

I guess we're just seeing it different - its all good.

 

 

Fish

[brujah]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

The fact that there IS so much going on is what's so amazing. At the point you are, which is about where I am(half way thru book 5) there's been some grand scheme going on that you only learn about layer by layer. It is drawn out at times, but the layered structure of the plot being revealed is brilliant imo.

Plus I like books with bad ass characters doing bad ass shit. And you get these bad ass characters, who you assume are the top dogs, run into even badder asses. It'd great fun. It's like, who's the biggest fish in this sea? I love it.

But it is definitely somewhat abstract at times. And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

[drizzt_scimitar]

I agree about the series being boring at times. Especially in books 7 onward, it felt like there were just too many musings on philosophy, life, existence, etc., by basically EVERY character in the books. Some of that was fine, I just think SE included a bit too much and it really bogged down the story.

 

That said, I think part of why the Malazan series is so well-liked by a lot of people is, as has already been mentioned, the payoff. Even though I'd say some of the books take longer than they should to get there, the payoff for all of the more boring sections and build up is amazing. In fact, different as they are, one of the things RJ had in common with SE is that no matter how overlong and boring the book, he (almost) always managed to have an incredibly awesome, big, amazing ending. Just thinking about the finales to Gardens of the Moon, Memories of Ice, Bonehunters, etc. makes me want to read the books again, the endings are that good.

 

One thing to point out, though, is that starting in book 6 (The Bonehunters) SE's writing style changes a bit. Books 1-5 (excluding possibly House of Chains) felt very self-contained; even though there were continuing plotlines and a ton of unexplained details, the overall plot of each book was reasonably clear and resolved within the scope of that book. Starting in book 6, though, the narrative jumps between viewpoints a bit more, it's often not as clear where the overall plot is going, and the books feel much less self-contained than previously. In fact, I've even seen several people refer to books 1-5 as the "intro" to the series proper, which really begins in book 6.

 

Also, from what I've seen with the people I know, the biggest stumbling blocks with the series are usually in three places:

 

1) Getting through Gardens of the Moon (mostly the beginning)

 

2) The Karsa section of House of Chains, as well as the book in general. House of Chains is often called the worst (or close to it) book in the series. That combined with the intro portion with Karsa often make it a difficult read

 

3) Getting into Midnight Tides, since it features all-new characters, plots, etc. from those already established. After already putting in such a big commitment to the series just to get to this book, a lot of people have difficulty with learning about new characters and places. I've noticed that often the difficulty is simply in deciding to start the book, though, as most people I know say that once you get into Midnight Tides it's one of the better books in the series, and definitely has one of the tighter, most contained storylines.

 

So, overall, the series has its flaws and certainly isn't for everyone, but for me the good definitely outweighs the bad.

[Mr Ares]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

 

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

The fact that there IS so much going on is what's so amazing. At the point you are, which is about where I am(half way thru book 5) there's been some grand scheme going on that you only learn about layer by layer. It is drawn out at times, but the layered structure of the plot being revealed is brilliant imo.

Plus I like books with bad ass characters doing bad ass shit. And you get these bad ass characters, who you assume are the top dogs, run into even badder asses. It'd great fun. It's like, who's the biggest fish in this sea? I love it.

But it is definitely somewhat abstract at times. And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

It's not exactly hard to be smart enough to keep up with these books. That's really not the problem people have. The problem is things like the author spending hundreds of pages having his characters endlessly contemplate their navels and discuss philosophy (because apparently everyone in Malazan is an amateur philosopher). Erikson tends to have high points that make the boring parts worth slogging through, but that doesn't mean that people wouldn't rather that he just wrote something that wasn't a tedious slog for hundreds of pages. Look at Toll the Hounds - it's long and it feels like it. It has a great climax. However, part of the climax feels like Erikson just stuck it in there because he needed it to happen rather than because there was any in story reason for it to, some storylines go nowhere (being set-up for Orb, Sceptre, Throne), and some are just boring, and would have benefited from being drastically trimmed. Endless travelogueing doesn't make you a great writer. Also, making so many people super powered bad asses gets unimpressive after a while. When every other character is either a god, an ascendant, a dragon, capable of beating gods, ascendants and dragons in one on one battles, Icarium, or Karsa, you tend to be less awestruck. Should wow moments really be so prevalent that they become ho-hum?

 

Also, the needing to be smart to read the books thing, that is itself problematic. Look at all the inconsistencies between GotM and the rest of the series. Look at all the timeline issues. Normally, not spoon feeding the reader is something to be applauded, but with Erikson trying to put things together for yourself runs into the problem of sometimes it just doesn't make sense. The pieces don't fit (and sometimes there might be pieces missing). This would be less of a problem if he was playing to the lowest common denominator to begin with, but by trying to give the impression that you have to be smart to appreciate his books, when being smart simply makes you more able to see all the flaws means that it is a problem. Malazan works better when the audience isn't smarter than the author. Compare with, say, Book of the New Sun - it works on all sorts of levels, rewards rereads, and is a very complex work (and about the length of one Malazan book). It's also less likely to be picked apart and found not to work than Malazan is. In fact, picking it apart shows you that it does work - it works better than you initially thought it did. There might be people out there that are not smart enough for Malazan. There are also people out there who are too smart for Malazan. Not to mention the many who are smart enough, and dislike it for other reasons.

[Suttree]

And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

 

Surely people just aren't smart enough, it has nothing to do with the bloated prose, shoddy editing, and uneven timeline. Malazan is a great series that has promise but at times can just be a god awful mess. Look to Bakker and Prince of Nothing to see a similar type of fantasy executed near perfectly.

[The Fisher King]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

 

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

The fact that there IS so much going on is what's so amazing. At the point you are, which is about where I am(half way thru book 5) there's been some grand scheme going on that you only learn about layer by layer. It is drawn out at times, but the layered structure of the plot being revealed is brilliant imo.

Plus I like books with bad ass characters doing bad ass shit. And you get these bad ass characters, who you assume are the top dogs, run into even badder asses. It'd great fun. It's like, who's the biggest fish in this sea? I love it.

But it is definitely somewhat abstract at times. And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

It's not exactly hard to be smart enough to keep up with these books. That's really not the problem people have. The problem is things like the author spending hundreds of pages having his characters endlessly contemplate their navels and discuss philosophy (because apparently everyone in Malazan is an amateur philosopher). Erikson tends to have high points that make the boring parts worth slogging through, but that doesn't mean that people wouldn't rather that he just wrote something that wasn't a tedious slog for hundreds of pages. Look at Toll the Hounds - it's long and it feels like it. It has a great climax. However, part of the climax feels like Erikson just stuck it in there because he needed it to happen rather than because there was any in story reason for it to, some storylines go nowhere (being set-up for Orb, Sceptre, Throne), and some are just boring, and would have benefited from being drastically trimmed. Endless travelogueing doesn't make you a great writer. Also, making so many people super powered bad asses gets unimpressive after a while. When every other character is either a god, an ascendant, a dragon, capable of beating gods, ascendants and dragons in one on one battles, Icarium, or Karsa, you tend to be less awestruck. Should wow moments really be so prevalent that they become ho-hum?

 

Also, the needing to be smart to read the books thing, that is itself problematic. Look at all the inconsistencies between GotM and the rest of the series. Look at all the timeline issues. Normally, not spoon feeding the reader is something to be applauded, but with Erikson trying to put things together for yourself runs into the problem of sometimes it just doesn't make sense. The pieces don't fit (and sometimes there might be pieces missing). This would be less of a problem if he was playing to the lowest common denominator to begin with, but by trying to give the impression that you have to be smart to appreciate his books, when being smart simply makes you more able to see all the flaws means that it is a problem. Malazan works better when the audience isn't smarter than the author. Compare with, say, Book of the New Sun - it works on all sorts of levels, rewards rereads, and is a very complex work (and about the length of one Malazan book). It's also less likely to be picked apart and found not to work than Malazan is. In fact, picking it apart shows you that it does work - it works better than you initially thought it did. There might be people out there that are not smart enough for Malazan. There are also people out there who are too smart for Malazan. Not to mention the many who are smart enough, and dislike it for other reasons.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

 

 

 

Fish

[Crowl Rife]

And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

 

And it's this smug, condescending attitude of people who like this series that has in part turned me off of it. I'm tired of telling people that I don't like the series and getting a response like this in return. I've gotten it on numerous sites. I can give dozens of valid reasons why I think this series is not half as good as something like Wheel of Time, but instead of a healthy debate about it, all I get in return is, "you don't get it, you're dumb."

 

Really? Grow up.

 

2) The Karsa section of House of Chains, as well as the book in general. House of Chains is often called the worst (or close to it) book in the series. That combined with the intro portion with Karsa often make it a difficult read

 

I personally thought the Karsa section at the beginning of House of Chains was by far the best part of the first four books that I read. It would have made a great short novel all by itself. Karsa became an actual character that I liked and felt for... hard to say that about many of the others who just go around doing bad ass things.

 

This would be less of a problem if he was playing to the lowest common denominator to begin with, but by trying to give the impression that you have to be smart to appreciate his books, when being smart simply makes you more able to see all the flaws means that it is a problem. Malazan works better when the audience isn't smarter than the author. Compare with, say, Book of the New Sun - it works on all sorts of levels, rewards rereads, and is a very complex work (and about the length of one Malazan book). It's also less likely to be picked apart and found not to work than Malazan is. In fact, picking it apart shows you that it does work - it works better than you initially thought it did. There might be people out there that are not smart enough for Malazan. There are also people out there who are too smart for Malazan. Not to mention the many who are smart enough, and dislike it for other reasons.

 

My thoughts exactly.

[The Fisher King]

And to be honest, there's just going to be people out there who are not smart enough to keep up with this book.

 

And it's this smug, condescending attitude of people who like this series that has in part turned me off of it. I'm tired of telling people that I don't like the series and getting a response like this in return. I've gotten it on numerous sites. I can give dozens of valid reasons why I think this series is not half as good as something like Wheel of Time, but instead of a healthy debate about it, all I get in return is, "you don't get it, you're dumb."

 

Really? Grow up.

 

2) The Karsa section of House of Chains, as well as the book in general. House of Chains is often called the worst (or close to it) book in the series. That combined with the intro portion with Karsa often make it a difficult read

 

I personally thought the Karsa section at the beginning of House of Chains was by far the best part of the first four books that I read. It would have made a great short novel all by itself. Karsa became an actual character that I liked and felt for... hard to say that about many of the others who just go around doing bad ass things.

 

This would be less of a problem if he was playing to the lowest common denominator to begin with, but by trying to give the impression that you have to be smart to appreciate his books, when being smart simply makes you more able to see all the flaws means that it is a problem. Malazan works better when the audience isn't smarter than the author. Compare with, say, Book of the New Sun - it works on all sorts of levels, rewards rereads, and is a very complex work (and about the length of one Malazan book). It's also less likely to be picked apart and found not to work than Malazan is. In fact, picking it apart shows you that it does work - it works better than you initially thought it did. There might be people out there that are not smart enough for Malazan. There are also people out there who are too smart for Malazan. Not to mention the many who are smart enough, and dislike it for other reasons.

 

My thoughts exactly.

 

This is an AWESOME Post! It sums up a lot of how I feel about the series and its fans. I work in Structural Engineering, have two degrees and can disect Tolstoy, Chaucer or Twain with you.

 

Being ''smart enough'' has nothing to do with why so many can't get into or get through the first books in the series. It has to do with lack of characterization, long borish intervals, lack of exposition and too few payoffs for many readers. Now, I LIKE the first few books in this series but it is certainly no 'masterpiece' that requires some high level of intelligence to 'comprehend' ... and I believe that the insinuations are often the insecure self-defense mechanisms of those who may not be able to admit to themselves that even they aren't sure why they like it so much.

 

This isn't directed at anyone here on this Board in particular...just a general opinion on my part.

 

 

Fish

[Crowl Rife]

This is an AWESOME Post! It sums up a lot of how I feel about the series and its fans.

 

Good to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm willing to discuss the series with people to try and understand it, and I really do want to read the whole thing someday, but when I consistently get those kinds of responses to any little negative thing I say about it, I wonder why I even bother.

[Mr Ares]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

So you're saying that I misread "Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5"? That what I should have read was not "those characters", but "new characters." I see. I must confess, I do have an awful habit of reading the words people write and interpreting those words to mean what they actually say, rather than what people wish they had put. Unfortunate, but it happens.

[The Fisher King]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

So you're saying that I misread "Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5"? That what I should have read was not "those characters", but "new characters." I see. I must confess, I do have an awful habit of reading the words people write and interpreting those words to mean what they actually say, rather than what people wish they had put. Unfortunate, but it happens.

 

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

[Suttree]

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

 

Sorry Fish but I read it the same way as Mr Ares...

[The Fisher King]

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

 

Sorry Fish but I read it the same way as Mr Ares...

 

Well, then I'm sorry I apparently wasn't more clear.

 

 

Fish

[Jon Paul]

Sadly I stopped reading after House of Chains, I intend to pick it up again, but there's something I really want to read. Rake vs Ultor. If it isn't too long could someone provide a quote for me ?

[brujah]

I stand by the opinion that for many people, they will not be smart enough to enjoy the Malazan books. But it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and defiantly not anyone in this thread.

I thought it was obvious that those participating in this thread were at least semi intelligent.

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

I know for a fact that the scope of this story, and the way its written by being revealed in layers IS beyond the grasp of less intelligent people.

And why would anyone assume that this theory also encompassed those who just didn't like the book for other reasons?

I think some of you that rushed in to both defend or attack my assumption revealed quite a lot about yourselves.

 

"A man walks into a room full of strangers, and starts talking about how Democrats are less intelligent than Republicans. A few democrats take offense and confront the man."

I believe I've spotted some "democrats."

[Crowl Rife]

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

 

When you quote my post specifically, I'm going to assume you are speaking about me and thus I'm going to respond to it as if it were directed at myself.

[brujah]

Oh then I apologize. I know nothing of you. I was speaking generically. Didn't even mean to quote you in that way.

[Suttree]

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

 

Don't think anyone felt the need to "defend" the statement. As for disputing it...well yeah most of us probably felt obligated because it is a false assumption.

[Mr Ares]

I really, really want to like this series, but I gave up after the first four books. There were some nice bits and pieces, but overall it made no sense to me, I only cared about one character (Karsa Orlong), and there's way too much deus ex machina going on. I'm debating whether to re-read it just to say that I got through the entire thing.

 

I think the end of Book 4 is a great place to call it a day. If you've read they first four you get at least y for pretty much the entire story for Fesilin, Bauden and Heboric.....Mapping and Icarium.......Crokus and Kruppe....Paean...

 

Book Five launches all new storylines, so, yeah, like I said, Book Four is a good place to wrap it up if the series is not for you.

 

 

Fish

 

What are you on about? Almost none of those characters have had their story reach a conclusion by the end of book 4. In fact the only two characters in that list that is finished is Baudin and Felisin. Heboric, Mappo, Icarium, Crokus, Kruppe and Paran all have huge and important roles to play in the later books.

 

Ummm...nooooo. (And Im only beginning like that because the Mods here really enjoy posts that start with "Ummm" lol ;-) ) ... Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5 - The Tides of Midnight - but their INITIAL storylines wrap in House of Chains/Book 4. If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5 because the series just isn't doing it for you, then Book 4 is a decent place to cut bait. That's all I'm saying.

 

 

Fish

Firstly, the fifth book is called Midnight Tides. Secondly, none of those chracters are in it. So none of them begin new arcs in that book.

 

Those characters are not in Book 5??? Um, that's exactly why Book 4 serves as a great dividing point in the series - imo. And, Im not really sure how THIS can be misunderstood: ''If you don't want to begin the next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

You may have misread that as ''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

It happens.

So you're saying that I misread "Those characters begin NEW storyarcs in Book 5"? That what I should have read was not "those characters", but "new characters." I see. I must confess, I do have an awful habit of reading the words people write and interpreting those words to mean what they actually say, rather than what people wish they had put. Unfortunate, but it happens.

 

I think its pretty apparent I meant the characters in the NEXT storyarc and not the characters originally mentioned. Reading comprehension. This is why I wrote:

 

'If you don't want to begin THE next cycle of stories in Book 5''

 

and not:

 

''If you don't want to begin THEIR next cycle of stories in Book 5.''

 

Unless your implying that I went back and edited my OP? No? Didn't think so. So, get over it? K, thx.

 

 

Fish

I'm not implying that you edited, I'm implying that you were taking that part of what you said out of context. The next cycle of stories could refer to the next cycle involving the existing characters, or just the next cycle, involving new characters. Next cycle doesn't automatically mean new characters, and you had already mentioned the existing characters starting new arcs. You say "those characters" begin new story arcs in book five - which characters? The unmentioned new ones, or the aforementioned old ones who you claimed were beginning new arcs in this book. The line I quoted was the context which you tried to avoid. See, Fish, I'm actually trying to help you here. Stop for a minute, think about what I have said, and then bear it in mind next time you post. Think about what you are trying to say, because as it is you managed to shoot your own point in the foot. There is no problem with my reading comprehension here, only your writing comprehension. It is worth taking the time to make your point clear. Remember, we are not you - we will see what you write, not necessarily what you meant to write.

 

I stand by the opinion that for many people, they will not be smart enough to enjoy the Malazan books. But it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, and defiantly not anyone in this thread.

I thought it was obvious that those participating in this thread were at least semi intelligent.

And I don't understand why anyone would feel the need to defend that statement as if it was directed at themselves.

I know for a fact that the scope of this story, and the way its written by being revealed in layers IS beyond the grasp of less intelligent people.

And why would anyone assume that this theory also encompassed those who just didn't like the book for other reasons?

I think some of you that rushed in to both defend or attack my assumption revealed quite a lot about yourselves.

 

"A man walks into a room full of strangers, and starts talking about how Democrats are less intelligent than Republicans. A few democrats take offense and confront the man."

I believe I've spotted some "democrats."

So what have the people who stepped in to attack your assumption revealed? That they are not fans of the implicit assumption that they are less intelligent than you. You've spotted some Democrats - fine, but it looks to me like the Democrats in your little story have not demonstrated any lack of intelligence, they have merely seen fit to disagree with a blanket insult thrown at them. What point were you trying to make with your comment about intelligence? It has no relevance to the matter at hand. Anyone of average intelligence can understand Malazan well enough. All that comment does is insult the intelligence of others - which you admit was not your point - and flatter your own by extension. It adds nothing to the conversation. Now, I would like to assert that some people are not smart enough for Spot the Dog. I don't mean anyone in particular, not anyone here, just in general, there are people out there who are not equipped to understand those books.

[hotpocket2006]

So I haven't read any of this thread because of spoilers, but I just wanted to say I'm on The Bonehunters, and I absolutely lurb this series so far!! It's a little character heavy, but I love the way it seems like none of the pieces make sense at first, and then you see them start to come together. Can't wait to finish it!

[redarm]

So I haven't read any of this thread because of spoilers, but I just wanted to say I'm on The Bonehunters, and I absolutely lurb this series so far!! It's a little character heavy, but I love the way it seems like none of the pieces make sense at first, and then you see them start to come together. Can't wait to finish it!

 

 

You must be really smart!

[Werthead]

I think it's fair to say that the 'next phase of the series' indeed begins in Book 5, and that 'phase' does involve Icarium, Mappo and the other characters mentioned. However, they are drawn into that phase after Book 5, not during it (specifically, in Book 6 and than 7, which is a direct sequel to 5) :)

[brujah]

Jesus Christ, I yield.

Anyway, I'm about a quarter into Bonehunters.

I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far, although I found it hard to connect some of the dots. Still very intriguing.

[brujah]

So I haven't read any of this thread because of spoilers, but I just wanted to say I'm on The Bonehunters, and I absolutely lurb this series so far!! It's a little character heavy, but I love the way it seems like none of the pieces make sense at first, and then you see them start to come together. Can't wait to finish it!

 

 

You must be really smart!

 

I see what you did there.

[Kadere]

Jesus Christ, I yield.

Anyway, I'm about a quarter into Bonehunters.

I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far, although I found it hard to connect some of the dots. Still very intriguing.

 

The battle at Y'Ghatan is just about my favorite battle of the series. The sheer size and scope of it just blows me away, and I love that he does practically the entire battle in one 120 something page chapter forcing you (or at least me) to experience the entire thing before you come to a decent stopping place.