Jump to content

DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY
Sign in to follow this  
Elena

Eragon - WoT total rip-off

Recommended Posts

Hmm. There are quite a number of similarities. I'm actually in the middle of reading Eldest for the second time, (mostly because I'm really bored...)

One instance reminded me too much of the whole Artur Hawkwing thing. "King Palancar" seemed unusually similar to him. Also mentioned is a land beyond the sea which sounds suspiciously like Seanchan. Eragon mentions that it might be possible that these people would support them to fight the Empire.

Also - Eragon sets up an "Eavesdropping Ward" when he first swears fealty to Nasuada - who sort of reminds me of Elayne. (Has to take over the ruling from a recently "deceased" parent.) A person can't tell a lie when they're speaking the "Old Speech", Elva does the whole "Min" thing, and the connection between Eragon and Saphira sounds a lot like a Warder Bond...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me, or do the more people bash these books the more you want to read them to?

 

Like I kinda want to read them just to see how laughably horrible they are. This is probably the same reason I always slow down to look at car wrecks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I felt the same way at first hearing these two kids talking about how great it was and how similar to WOT and LOTR. Then I couldn't stomach his blatant plagiarism of RJ and JRRT.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hmm. There are quite a number of similarities. I'm actually in the middle of reading Eldest for the second time, (mostly because I'm really bored...)

One instance reminded me too much of the whole Artur Hawkwing thing. "King Palancar" seemed unusually similar to him. Also mentioned is a land beyond the sea which sounds suspiciously like Seanchan. Eragon mentions that it might be possible that these people would support them to fight the Empire.

Also - Eragon sets up an "Eavesdropping Ward" when he first swears fealty to Nasuada - who sort of reminds me of Elayne. (Has to take over the ruling from a recently "deceased" parent.) A person can't tell a lie when they're speaking the "Old Speech", Elva does the whole "Min" thing, and the connection between Eragon and Saphira sounds a lot like a Warder Bond...

A mysterious land from over the sea isn't exactly RJs sole intellectual property. It's been used in pretty much every major fantasy series for the last 30 years.

LOTRs- Valinor

Belgariad- Malloria

Song of Ice and Fire- Land across the narrow sea

Magician- Novindus

Elenium- Tamuli

ect ect

 

Nasuada reminds me of Egwene actually.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

True. The way Eragon suggested that they might help them fight against the empire, though, and that they were linked to King Palancar sort of sounded more WOT-ish to me.

Another thing I noticed, it was also mentioned that Brom came from a family of illuminators.

I don't hate the books, though, I think it's just fun to read them because of the cheesy generic fantasy-ness of them. I wouldn't say Paolini is a bad writer, though. His choice of dialogue and grammar is very intelligent, and there is often logic in it. He seems to plan things out pretty well, and his work sounds very promising. I think, if he gets out of the "sounding like every other fantasy author"-ness, he'll be a great writer.

I mean, he started the books as a teenager with narrower views than he has now. I think a lot of authors regret their first books, (sometimes).

I like Eldest much more than Eragon, because it has more depth to it, and better attempts at side-plotting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, well if what i'm hearing is true, then every book written in the Forgotten Realms is a rip off of Ed Greenwood, and so on and so forth, so why would you not read something because it is similar to other works, and calling this guy a Hack is kind of, um...what have yall published?? I'm not trying to make anyone mad or start anything, i'm just pointing out the obvious, like, Rap is just guys talking with music in the background, but they are making millions while most of america is stuck in dead end jobs. The point is, he wrote a book, you dont like it. Dont bash him because you have to nit pick over things, having read over 300 books i can tell you that all fantasy novels are similar in a lot of ways, so if you hold true to your beliefs by bashing him, why read any of them??

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but not 'all' fantasy books have to be similar. Read China Mieville's Perdido Street Station or Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, or Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun, to see how 'different' fantasy can be.

 

The irony with the FR comparison is that Ed Greenwood, who created it, is actually by far the Realms' worst author. Salvatore, Kemp and Denning run rings around him easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-cerdnee stealling aly's name-

 

If you honestly think ed greenwood is the worst author of the realms........OMG, what planet do you hale from. His quirky sense of humor and his attention to detail without it being overabundant is pretty awsome, while i do enjoy R.A. salvatore, and douglas Niles, as well as troy denning, saying he's the worst of them is slightly riddiculous. my point still stands, by majority rule, fantasy follows a pattern nomatter what anyone says the similarities will and always will be there. Naysaying it will not change that fact. I will accept that there are authors out there that do NOT follow with tradition, but that point is still moot.

 

basically though, there is still no reason to bash this guy because he writes like 90% of fantasy authors, you might as well stop reading if that is going to be a continuall issue with you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*mutters about being married*

 

i so am not letting him have my keyboard "for just a second, baby." again!! i just want to go up there and clean it all up!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The point is, he wrote a book, you dont like it. Dont bash him because you have to nit pick over things, having read over 300 books i can tell you that all fantasy novels are similar in a lot of ways, so if you hold true to your beliefs by bashing him, why read any of them??

 

my point still stands, by majority rule, fantasy follows a pattern nomatter what anyone says the similarities will and always will be there. Naysaying it will not change that fact. I will accept that there are authors out there that do NOT follow with tradition, but that point is still moot.

 

basically though, there is still no reason to bash this guy because he writes like 90% of fantasy authors, you might as well stop reading if that is going to be a continuall issue with you.

 

 

 

THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THAN

 

*Actualy looks at what he's writing :oops: *

 

You both took the words out of my mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
calling this guy a Hack is kind of' date=' um...what have yall published??[/quote']

 

I invoke Ebert's Law. ;)

 

I really apprecieted when, during an intellectual discussion about literature someone else comes along and acts like an arrogant ass in order to make other's feel bad about their opinions, by stating this ridiculous argument like, "what have you published". I'll have you know that I am published. Twice. And I've been asked to co-author another book. So what credibility does that give me? No more than any other living, breathing, critically thinking (which all people should be) person. Every person who reads should think critically about what they are reading. To read only for joy would be assinine. Finally, if we as reader don't look at the work of authors critically then we are not doing ourselves or them any favors.

 

And on the issue of "what have you published" the age old rebuttal to such a weak fallacy as, is this, "you don't have to be a certified chef to know what tastes good."

 

Thank you,

 

-Caleb

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"When in the course of disagreeing with a posted review, the relative merit of the review's content is ignored in favor of challenging the reviewer to display his work in the field, or trashing the already published work of the reviewer, the person who says "Put up or shut up" or "Your writing sucks, so where do you get off criticising mine" loses all credibility, and is banned for life from expressing an opinion about anything she isn't an expert at doing herself. No disliking a movie unless you're a filmmaker, no sending the soup back because of the fly in it unless you're a sous-chef, and ladies, no complaining that your boyfriend doesn't satisfy you in bed unless your own dick is both bigger and more pleasure-inducing."

 

I just wanted to make you aware that your defense of your argument works against you "the person who says "Put up or shut up" or "Your writing sucks, so where do you get off criticising mine" loses all credibility, and is banned for life from expressing an opinion about anything" In other words you as a person are stating that unless someone can show their own work to give them credibility in their disagreement then their opinion shouldn't matter. Guess what Ebert is referring to you when he say's you lose all credibility and are banned from every expressing your opinion.

 

He is essentially saying here that everyone has an opinion and should have an opinion regardless of their credentials. Do some close reading sometime and your might find that out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm now totally confused.

 

Firstly, please moderate your tone. I don't know who you are calling an arrogant bunny but, since I am the only person mentioned in your post, I assume it's me and I don't care for it. Please treat other posters with courtesy.

 

Secondly, I think you are directing your comments at the wrong person. I have never said that only published authors should be able to comment and I never will. I was responding to somebody upthread who made that comment. If you look at my post again, you'll see that I provided a link to a jurisimprudence law, thus politely pointing out that it's bad form to make that kind of comment.

 

Thirdly, in what way are you disagreeing with me? I quoted Ebert's Law to point out that you don't need to be a published author to comment on written work. You've basically restated my point. :?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

while i agree that he shouldn't have said, "what have you published?" there is no way that i can agree that reading for pleasure is "assinine." not all books should be read just to give the reader think about. the only reason i read in my spare time is for pleasure. if it pleases me to read pratchet for the pleasure of a laugh, that's what i'll read. his books don't require much thinking as i have already done all the thinking that would lead me to agree or disagree with any of his satirical opinions. that doesn't make it or me stupid, foolish or unintellegent. and that is all asinine means.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't possibly read a book without being crtical. Maybe it's because my mother's an English teacher, I don't know. It just seems that no matter what I'm reading I'm going to critic it to see if I liked it or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i didn't say i wouldn't be critical of it, just that i wouldn't think about the content each and every time. the how it was written rather than the what is usually what i have issues with. anyway, it is difficult to enjoy something you have shredded apart for errors and judgements that don't agree with yours. and books should definitely be enjoyed. and that is all i was disagreeing with. someone who would call another stupid for reading purely for the enjoyment of a good book.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
-cerdnee stealling aly's name-

 

If you honestly think ed greenwood is the worst author of the realms........OMG, what planet do you hale from. His quirky sense of humor and his attention to detail without it being overabundant is pretty awsome, while i do enjoy R.A. salvatore, and douglas Niles, as well as troy denning, saying he's the worst of them is slightly riddiculous.

 

Why is it ridiculous? I was a big fan of the Realms for many years and DMed there regularly for my group. In my time I read a good 60-70 of the Realms novels and of those only found Greendwood's Shadow of the Avatar series and Spellfire to be utterly unreadable, and Elminster: Making of a Mage and Crown of Fire (which I did finish) were awful as well. I was at least able to finish the worst of the rest. It is, naturally, my opinion, but one that is well-informed.

 

my point still stands, by majority rule, fantasy follows a pattern nomatter what anyone says the similarities will and always will be there. Naysaying it will not change that fact. I will accept that there are authors out there that do NOT follow with tradition, but that point is still moot.

 

There are forms used in epic fantasy, certainly. You can see the common denominators between Jordan and Bakker and Martin, for example, but the actual stories are vastly different from one another. The complaint levelled by most people I have spoken to about Paolini (since I haven't read him myself) is that he goes far beyond that and uses actual storyline plot points from Lord of the Rings, WoT and Star Wars and just changes the setting and names. Okay, Brooks did that with Sword of Shannara, which was utterly ripped off from Lord of the Rings, but aside from that I've never heard of another fantasy novel so heavily criticised for ripping off other works. I don't have to 'naysay' your fact as it is not a fact. It is your opinion, derived from presumably having read only a small sample of the genre. With a wider sample, you will see that your 'fact' is in error.

 

basically though, there is still no reason to bash this guy because he writes like 90% of fantasy authors, you might as well stop reading if that is going to be a continuall issue with you.

 

Maybe he's like 90% of fantasy authors you have read. He is certainly not like 90% of fantasy authors who actually exist. He isn't even like 90% of epic fantasy writers. Most fantasy writers don't even have elves or dwarves any more (I wouldn't have been surprised if this had been a major issue in him not getting a publishing deal for ages, since modern fantasy publishers don't want elves or dwarves in their books, and are dubious about dragons as well).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would first like to start off by apoligizing. I wrote in haste earlier. I would hope my apology will be accepted and understand if it is not. I should not have fallen into such a trap as writing without thinking and then firing off a response with out a second observation. You are correct my statements were directed at the wrong person. My statements on the logical fallacy of "what have you published," should have been directed at the person who made the statement I know realize that was not you.

 

Following that I would like to alter/edit my first statement.

 

I really apprecieted when' date=' during an intellectual discussion about literature someone else comes along and acts like an arrogant bunny in order to make other's feel bad about their opinions, by stating this ridiculous argument like, "what have you published". I'll have you know that I am published. Twice. And I've been asked to co-author another book. So what credibility does that give me? No more than any other living, breathing, critically thinking (which all people should be) person. Every person who reads should think critically about what they are reading. To read only for joy would be assinine. Finally, if we as reader don't look at the work of authors critically then we are not doing ourselves or them any favors.

 

And on the issue of "what have you published" the age old rebuttal to such a weak fallacy as, is this, "you don't have to be a certified chef to know what tastes good." [/quote']

 

Essentially this is directed, sans condecension, towards the person/people making the argument "and what have you published?" This argument is not only growing old and feeble but it was never very strong to begin with.

 

I've been published twice, and asked to co-author another story, and that gives me absolutely no more credibility than any other reader of literature. This argument is easily refuted by the statement, "you don't have to be a master chef to know what tastes good."

 

If you will look to the post above and read Ebert's law. You'll find that this argument of publication is weak and pointless.

 

However I will maintain that criticsms are necessary for both readers and authors. I believe that when we read something, it shouldn't be for pleasure "only" rather we should be deconstructing what is written on the pages. But then again that may just be the english major in me coming out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
However I will maintain that criticsms are necessary for both readers and authors. I believe that when we read something, it shouldn't be for pleasure "only" rather we should be deconstructing what is written on the pages. But then again that may just be the english major in me coming out.

 

That is propobly true. I have supplied my father, who is getting an english major, with the WoT series, and he cannot talk about it without complaining. I think it all boils down to the fact that people need to complain, and weather out loud or in ones mind, it makes little differance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just saw the film this morning and it would have to be one of the worst films I've ever seen, which is a shame really because it could've been decent if it was done properly. The movie was treated with utter contempt by all involved from the director, the CGI techs, the actors, down to the costume designers and the makeup artists. Truely pathetic.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I liked Eragon! The Dragon was awsome. I could see several times where there were tolkien like influences but I don't think there were many WOT things. If any there were some Anne McCaffrey rip offs there but I thought overall it was great! :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure the books might have themes and storylines that are similar to other books, it doesn't mean I can't enjoy reading the books.

It's this type of book, with the audience that it's aimed at, that can introduce a wealth of new readers to the fantasy genre and I for one think thats a good thing. You imagine that Eragon is the first fantasy novel your reading, and once your finished you'll be back for more.

As a relative newcomer to fantasy, I don't have the reading experience that a lot of posters here have, so maybe thats an advantage for me in reading these novels . There's not many books I've started that I couldn't finish (the third Elder Gods novel - David Eddings was really bad) and I had no trouble with these.

Was going to go to the movie but after looking at some reviews it seems the movie doesn't even closely resemble the book. It seems Paolini may have sold the rights without retaining a say in how they were made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*shrug* i havent seen this or read this, and know little else than what npr told me. but apparently this book was written by a 15 yr old. no wonder its a complete ripoff of all main stream fantasy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...