A Clue from LTT about the Last Battle?

[Crossroad]

As LTT clues given During TGS, Rand has to destroy the old seals allow them to reseal

the bore with new and better Seals.

 

I believe the Seals LTT and his boys created to contain and trap the DO were

inferior so Rand will have to destroy them so others can create and put inplace

better seals.  I believe Callandor is the sword of Light and it can not only take

life it can also create it.  Using that theory I believe Callandor will be used to

seal the bore by creating the seals and placing them.

 

Because of Rands link with Moridin he will be able to act as a buffer between Three

other channelers using Callandor to create and put the new seals in place. I also

think they will have three circles one male two females who will be there to provide extra

power for the people using Callandor to create the new seals. They will

be the added power needed to make the seals superior to the ones made by LTT and his

crew. 

 

Alivia will be there, so she can kill Rand, this is nessecary because if he is not killed

his soul will be trapped behind the seals with the DO. 

 

With his death Min viewing of Logain stepping over Rand will happen.

 

Rand = Buffer

 

Logain, Cadsuane?, Moiraine? = Callandor

 

Aes Sedai = 2 circles

Asha'man  = 1 circle

 

everyone else will be trying to keep the Dark One minions off Rand and crew.  There will be

huge battles with:

 

Mat the band of the red hand combined with his wifes army, it will be awsume, 

 

Perrin and his wife and their army which will include wolves I also think Banner General Tylee army will also be with them.

 

Rands own army will probably be incharge of securing the area around Shayol Ghul Aiel, Legion of the Dragon.

 

This is where I see the reference Min talks about in TGS regarding "3 will become 1" Three huge armies

will become one.

[Calderis]

Circles don't work that way. Men can't link unless it's with women. a circle can't go beyond 13 without a man, but men can't link at all without women.

[Crossroad]

they'll work it out. I'm sure of it

[mikael]

Its good to be sure ;)

[Calderis]

Your argument is flawless sir. I concede the point. lol

[OptimusPrime]

If someone is stabbed and die. If balefire kills them, it doesnt just kill them, it changes their affect on the Pattern. That isnt splitting hairs in the slightest, thats just the way it is. The balefirer did nothing to the Pattern; they just killed them. The balefire does the Pattern bit by itself.

 

So Cadsuane should slap the balefire in the face and tell it not to weave itself anymore. ::)  

 

Heres a better example of hairsplitting.

 

No one inside and of the Pattern can destroy the Wheel or change the destiny of the Great Pattern.

 

So does that mean balefire isn't nearly as dangerous as we are led to believe? That using a lot of balefire won't unravel the pattern?

 

To use RJs words against him like that after reading so far into the series and seeing how balefire works, after it becoming clear that balefire can depopulate cities by accident, THAT is splitting hairs.

 

Look, I don't have a horse in the race as to whether someone in the pattern can destory the Wheel, or imprison the DO, or whatever. All I'm saying is that the question is valid. Even if it contradicts what RJ said otherwise, it is a valid question. It's valid because it seems to contradict what RJ has said. In other words, the incongruity of balefire's potential to destroy the pattern and the notion that no one within the pattern can destroy the pattern deserves some sort of answer... some sort of resolution.

 

Balefire is within the pattern, as is the person weaving it. Can a person, wielding balefire, do enough damage to destroy the pattern? It deserves an answer.

 

Yes.

 

Imagine there were ten thousand channelers that were almost dead, and Rand somehow uses Callandor to Heal them all in one go. Then, within ten minutes, those ten thousand people do loads of different stuff. Healing other people, killing others, making items, whatever else.

 

Then I use the CK to balefire Rand so that he never used Callandor on the ten thousand channelers. The Pattern would have a hard time adjusting to that. Yet I have done absolutely nothing to it, have I? All I did was kill one person, yet the Pattern tries to react, to change the past, remove people that Rand Healed and undo ALL of their actions... you get the idea. I killed one man, that is all. I did nothing to the Pattern directly.

[FarShainMael]

Is the 'Great Pattern' different to the 'Pattern'?

 

[FarShainMael]

Apparently it is: from

http://www.sevenspokes.com/chronology/creation.html

"Each Age is a specific period of time whose basic design is defined by the Pattern of the Age. The pattern of each Age is fixed by the Great Pattern, but the details of a specific Age can vary considerably from the base pattern."

 

"Although powerful, ta'veren are still bound to the Pattern of an Age, as well as the Great Pattern."

 

[Kaznen]

At the end of tGS I thought how Rand broke up the Gathering Storm and laughed lent support to my Divine Power theory.  If Rand channels the power of the Creator against the DO I don't think the DO could taint it.

 

Remember, RJ has said that the WoT is "earths past and future" and I suspect that on one Turning of the Wheel when The Dragon walked the world he was called Jesus Christ. 8)

[Nightstrike]

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 15 January 2003, Lexington KY - Dragon Thief reporting

Q: Is Rand al'Thor meant to be a Jesus figure?

RJ: Um, if you consider King Arthur to be a Jesus figure--the king who must die. [more, indistinct]

[i'm not positive on the exact wording of that question. it's indistinct]

 

DragonCon 28 June 1997 - SciFi Channel Chat

Ishamael: How much of Jesus Christ is there in Rand? We have the wounded palms, side wound, crown of swords...How representational of Jesus is Rand?

RJ: Rand has some elements of Jesus Christ, yes. But he is intended more to be a general "Messiah figure." An archetype such as Arthur, rather than a manifestation of Jesus Christ in any way.

 

[OptimusPrime]

At the end of tGS I thought how Rand broke up the Gathering Storm and laughed lent support to my Divine Power theory.  If Rand channels the power of the Creator against the DO I don't think the DO could taint it.

 

I have a similar theory Kaznen, but I dont think its Divine Power as such, I think the Dragon/Creators Champions will can affect the Pattern.

 

 

"There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn, and he one with the land. Soul of fire, heart of stone, in pride he conquers, forcing the proud to yield. He calls upon the mountains to kneel, and the seas to give way, and the very skies to bow. Pray that the heart of stone remembers tears, and the soul of fire, love."

 

From a much-disputed translation of The Prophecies of the Dragon

by the poet Kyera Termendal of Shiota

believed to have been published between FY 700 and FY 800

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/karaethon.html

 

It smacked me in the face as soon as I read Veins of Gold, when Lews Therin reminded Rand that love was what made them fight-the Dragon remembers love, a prophecy has been fulfilled. Then I saw the rest of the prophecy.

 

There can be no health in us, nor any good thing grow, for the land is one with the Dragon Reborn.

 

Do you not see it? The Pattern is becoming loose because the Dragon is faltering.

 

We all saw Rands darkness books before even KoD, where I think all the Rand-True Power theories began. For a very long time Rands obsessiveness with being invulnerable has been very obviously wrong. We saw him turn hard, becoming a tyrant, start losing control of himself, and eventually stop caring how dark he became. And in synergy with this we started seeing food rot, ghosts appearing, structures altering and even people being devoured by parasites materialising within them. Why? Because the land is one with the Dragon, and he is one with the land.

 

It all slides into place. The Dark One needs the Dragon to turn dark in order to break free. Rand is not officially dark, but the Dark One doesnt care either way; whatever the case is, the Dark One will be as big a fool as any Forsaken if he denies Rand the True Power without giving it long enough to see what happens. Just look at Rand in TGS! When they catch the boy who was Compelled by Graendal/whoever, when Rand said to the boy "Do you believe I could kill you?" I instantly thought the Dark Ones pants would be wet with amusement.

 

Listen. Rands will makes a difference-it affects events, TGS proves it. First we saw Tuon almost say EXACTLY what Rand wants beforehand, when Rand concentrates on her. Yes, we saw similar things happen to the Sea Folk, but Im thinking a) Tuon is much stronger minded, and b) Rand concentrates very hard on Tuon when that happened. She resisted, and it grew much stronger, and stopped as soon as she said no. Second, we see Rand pull a name out of someone whose mind was destroyed by Compulsion. Impossible. No way would Rand have gotten that answer from a destroyed mind. Not unless he willed it. Remember when he got loads of food to Arad Doman? He couldnt bring order to the city so he coldly decides to abandon it, and just before he steps through the gateway to Tear someone tells him all the food he brought-ALL OF IT-had instantly rotted.

 

The weather Im not counting in this because Moridin notes that the Dark One had done the seasons over. But if you also remember that Moridin thought to himself that Rand was moving according to Moridins plans, and look at what Im saying about Rand vs the Pattern, you might make the same of it as me.

 

Im pretty sure Im not the only person who originally thought that prophecy at the top referred to Rands destructive nature-I always thought it meant the good things in the world would be destroyed after Rand. Not that it literally meant Rand being one with the world made things happen like they are.

 

Aaaaand a few additions.

 

On TGS page 757 VoG, Rand starts ranting about the same lives, the same mistakes yada yada, and the clouds above him darken. As he relives EotW prologue the clouds twist and turn, the winds surge around him, lightening crackles. Lews Therin shocks Rand by saying they have a second chance; INSTANTLY, exactly in time with Rand contemplating that new glimmer of hope, the winds go still. Then he is calm, he opens his eyes and the clouds parted above him.

 

From Lord of Chaos, Herid Fels note to Rand.

 

"Belief and order give strength. Have to clear rubble before you can build. Will explain when see you next. Do not bring girl. Too pretty."

 

Belief and order in Rands frame of mind give strength to the Pattern.

 

Rands frame of mind affects the world, his will shifts the Pattern. Id say "the land" is almost broken just as they say he would break them, but Rand repaired himself-although not fully, not by a long way-and he is one with the land. I am willing to bet my lefty that "the land" will begin to recover somewhat as a result of his new frame of mind.

 

Long story short, I think the only way for the Dark One to win is for the Dragon to be truly loyal to the Dark One, willingly. Turned to the dark isnt enough. Only if the Dragon is of the frame of mind of, say, ISHAMAEL/MORIDIN, could the Dark One win. Thats why previous Dark Dragons resulted in a draw and not a Shadow victory. Veins of Gold is the closest the Dark One ever came to winning I think; Rand almost wanted it to end like Elan Morin did, and that would have been it.

[NoGuessing]

^Pretty awesome theory. :)

 

Anyway, my scheme would be similar to what he did to cleanse saidin. At Shayol Ghul make a gateway to Shadar Logoth, toss out some chicken bones to get Mashadar's attention, then let the two nasties loose at each other. That should keep them both occupied long enough not to taint any version of the Power the use to make the DO a prison.

 

Rand could really have done with capturing Aginor instead of Asmodean. Aginor was the mad scientist with all the ideas on how stuff works, a bit of compulsion and you have a reliable mind to bounce ideas off, along with the insane voice in your head.

[OptimusPrime]

Rand could really have done with capturing Aginor instead of Asmodean.

 

Instantly I had images of Aginor talking to the voice in Rands head through Rand, Aginor studying Rand to learn where he gets the past life knowledge from, his Ta'veren nature, etc. Very interesting idea.

 

Now I have images of Bel'al teaching Rand and Lan some old school swordfighting.

[mossman87]

The Bore is a hole in the Pattern, they'll have to repair the Pattern to seal the DO out.  Most likely involving Fain and a process similar to everything Rand's wound has gone through.

 

As for getting Fain "there" with the DO, no clue.. maybe something involving the cords that link the male Forsaken to the DO, or maybe if Shadar Haran really is the avatar of the DO, then he's truly connected to the DO and a slash from Fain's dagger will go directly into the DO.

 

More likely it's something with using the TP, that connection with Moridin and Rand using the TP has to amount to something in the end.  And we see Fain isn't just a corrupted human, he has his own "power" now.  It'll probably end up a massive TP and Fain stream with Saidin and Saidar funneling it or something.

[NoGuessing]

Rand could really have done with capturing Aginor instead of Asmodean.

 

Instantly I had images of Aginor talking to the voice in Rands head through Rand, Aginor studying Rand to learn where he gets the past life knowledge from, his Ta'veren nature, etc. Very interesting idea.

 

Now I have images of Bel'al teaching Rand and Lan some old school swordfighting.

 

Rahvin and Belthamel to teach him how to get the chicks. :P

[Awakened]

Rand could really have done with capturing Aginor instead of Asmodean.

 

Instantly I had images of Aginor talking to the voice in Rands head through Rand, Aginor studying Rand to learn where he gets the past life knowledge from, his Ta'veren nature, etc. Very interesting idea.

 

Now I have images of Bel'al teaching Rand and Lan some old school swordfighting.

 

Rahvin and Belthamel to teach him how to get the chicks. :P

 

There has got to be a fanfic somewhere on that very subject.

[Auld Manriva]

"Clearing away the rubble" ... imo.. refers to the actual seals, not the focus points that get tagged as the seals and are all crumbling. LTT indicated to Rand that he knew his plan wouldn't work. But I think to do SOMEthing he did what he did as a "patch job" for lack of a better description.

 

Belief and order could mean many things. AS believing in channelling males sanity enough to go with the old LTT plan and cooperating could be one meaning. I think the DO "taint's" the area of the bore. So pushing him away from it somehow in order for Rand or The Pattern itself to reweave the fabric is whats needed. I guess we'll see.

[Random Man]

"Clearing away the rubble" ... imo.. refers to the actual seals, not the focus points that get tagged as the seals and are all crumbling. LTT indicated to Rand that he knew his plan wouldn't work. But I think to do SOMEthing he did what he did as a "patch job" for lack of a better description.

 

 

LTT said that he told the AoL Aes Sedai that their plan to build and use the Choden Kal to crush the forces of the DO wouldn't work. He said he tried to explain that brute force wasn't the answer.

 

In TeOTW prologue, he indicated that -- in hindsight -- he realized hubris had blinded him to what would happen when they tried to seal the prison -- in pride, he had believed that he could do the Creator's work. From that realization probably arose his reasoning on why the seals didn't work all that well.

[StefanR]

Perhaps Rand will wield Callandor when he seals the Bore (I assume that's what it was designed for, as a buffer to protect the man wielding it from contact with the Dark One, requiring two women to complete that buffer). If we assume he's wielding it if he uses it to touch the Dark One, and if Alivia is one of the two women with him (or maybe, there are two, but one is killed, leaving only her and Rand, and it's no longer enough), you may be onto something. Fain will likely be important at the end, I hope he is, he's been an antagonist since the first book.

 

Perhaps Fain will be there to take the Ring from Rand and will then fall into the Pit of Doom, thus destroying the Ring and Sauron's... I mean, the Dark One's, power.

 

Er... wrong story. Something like that, though.

 

It was actually an accident that Callandor had a flaw, it wasn't designed to have that.

[Random Man]

Perhaps Rand will wield Callandor when he seals the Bore (I assume that's what it was designed for, as a buffer to protect the man wielding it from contact with the Dark One, requiring two women to complete that buffer). If we assume he's wielding it if he uses it to touch the Dark One, and if Alivia is one of the two women with him (or maybe, there are two, but one is killed, leaving only her and Rand, and it's no longer enough), you may be onto something. Fain will likely be important at the end, I hope he is, he's been an antagonist since the first book.

 

Perhaps Fain will be there to take the Ring from Rand and will then fall into the Pit of Doom, thus destroying the Ring and Sauron's... I mean, the Dark One's, power.

 

Er... wrong story. Something like that, though.

 

It was actually an accident that Callandor had a flaw, it wasn't designed to have that.

 

I'm reminded of the saying that there are no coincidences...

[General Tam]

I think that the "rubble" that has to be cleared away is the Forsaken. With the Forsaken within the bore there is still a connection to the wheel for the DO to manipulate. And of course the "Patch work" has to be removed before a Rand can put up a good solid everlast seal. I can't wait to see what Fain has to do with it in the End. I guess the only thing to do is RAFO.

[garryowen]

I'm reminded of the saying that there are no coincidences...

 

I'm reminded of an RJ quote I can't seem to find which remarked on Callandor's flaw by stating that in the AoL, Ter'Angreal, Angreal, and Sa'Angreal were mass produced and that it wasn't unusual for them to occasionally have defects. Callandor might have been the Toyota of Sa'Angreal in the AoL. lol.

[mossman87]

I'm reminded of the saying that there are no coincidences...

 

I'm reminded of an RJ quote I can't seem to find which remarked on Callandor's flaw by stating that in the AoL, Ter'Angreal, Angreal, and Sa'Angreal were mass produced and that it wasn't unusual for them to occasionally have defects. Callandor might have been the Toyota of Sa'Angreal in the AoL. lol.

 

Haha good call on Toyota:

 

JWB: Was Callandor  constructed during the War of Power?

RJ: Yes

 

JWB: Was it used in the War of Power?

RJ: Yes, that is how the flaw was discovered.

 

JWB: Why didn't they ward/buffer Callandor?

RJ: The flaw with Callandor is simply a manufacturing flaw. (He went on to talk about how they were at the end of their tech age with only a few sho-wings and jo-cars left. A couple of shocklances were still around but they were not as prevalent as they had been. Anyway they had been mass producing ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal, and there are bound to be flaws with the products. The flaw with Callandor is simply one such flaw.)

[FarShainMael]

Just when I was beginning to wonder if Callandor wasn't so much flawed as nobbled by the DFs..

 

[rcfleming4]

Or the Pattern 'knew' it would need the flawed sword and made it so. As everything in the Pattern is in some way guided by the Pattern. Going along with the 'there are no coincidences' thing.