Reread: Book 4, Speculations on Mat's ancestors

[Al Thor93]

Hey all,

In rereading through the series I have paid more attention to connections. We realize that Mat and Perrin are obviously direct relations to Manetheren, however, who belongs to what family. Is Mat related to the King or Perrin?

It is my belief that Mat is, mainly because we don't hear a lot about Perrin having flashbacks to the days of Manetheren. We also know that Mat's ability to fight comes from experiences of other leaders throughout time whereas Perrin relies a lot on wolf ideas, not intentionally of course. Mat also has the ability to understand and speak the old tongue. While some of this comes from the red door in Rhuidean, he was saying frases of it in EOTW.

Just speculations, but was wondering what you all thought the blood ties were.

[Agitel]

If you're speaking about the memories Mat gained from the fox people (Eelfinn), those aren't the memories of his past life. Many of them occurred at the same time. These are actually the memories of men who also visited the Eelfinn.

 

However, Mat was speaking bits of the old tongue, not really understanding it, before then, before Shadar Logoth, even. There's also one memory he has of being a Manetheren general when he gets parted from the dagger. My guess is that particular piece was from a past life, though we can't be sure.

[jwillis7]

yea i always thought there was more than just random men's memories put in his head.  We saw when he was getting the dagger taken away he remembers a battle where he was the general and he people were calling him the gambler.  I don't think that it is normal for people going to the finns that they have there memories filled with other peoples, i think that when the dagger was severed from him it opened a link to his past lives and when he asked to have the holes in his memory filled they filled them with his old memories.  I had thought that Mat was maybe a hero bound to the horn, the gambling general, but Hawkwing nor Birgitte made notice that they might know him, more Hawkwing though at Falme.  so i don't know

[Majsju]

The one memory that might be from one of Mats past lives are the one we see when he is healed from the dagger in TDR. All the memories he got from the finns are memories collected by them, and have nothing to do with Mat.

When he went through the Rhuidean doorway, he asked for the holes in his memory to be filled, but made the mistake of not being specific about what he wanted them filled with, so the finns simply took what memories they had available. Memories collected from adventurers who had visited them earlier.

[jwillis7]

did RJ say they were not his or do we just think that.

[redisgreat]

Mat is ta'veran so he will be there to help Rand in the fainl bsttle. I believe that Mat and Perrin will perish so that Rand can fulfil the prophecies of the Dragon Reborn, much like the others that are summonded by the Horn of Valere. They ARE dead yet they can be summonded. That is what Mat remembers after his visit to Rhuidean. The holes in his memory are filled with his 'past' lives. Not something any of us would want to have!!

 

[Muad Cheade]

No.The reason for Mt uttering phrases of the Old Tongue is due to the Old Blood of Manetheren that runs strongly in the Two Rivers (except for Taren Ferry). Egwene herself feels as if she should understand those words herself.

 

Mat's memories are not his. The are of the numerous adventures and soldiers who visited the Finns through the gateways and the Tower of Ghenjei. Jordan confirmed that.

[Al Thor93]

No.The reason for Mt uttering phrases of the Old Tongue is due to the Old Blood of Manetheren that runs strongly in the Two Rivers (except for Taren Ferry). Egwene herself feels as if she should understand those words herself.

 

Mat's memories are not his. The are of the numerous adventures and soldiers who visited the Finns through the gateways and the Tower of Ghenjei. Jordan confirmed that.

 

You know, If I remember right, in one of the earlier books, Egwene says something like those frases sound familiar, like she should know them. Also, now that you mention it, it does seem weird for Mat to have all those ancestoral memories. Manetheran while powerful in military, always came across to me as a peaceful nation. That and i also agree that the memory when Mat is seperated from the dagger is def. ancestoral because it is about the fall of manetheran if I'm correct.

[delathi]

We also know they can't all me Mat's prior lives because he describes being on different sides of the same wars as different people (Fought for and against Hawkwing) who were assuredly alive at the same time.

[Al Thor93]

We also know they can't all me Mat's prior lives because he describes being on different sides of the same wars as different people (Fought for and against Hawkwing) who were assuredly alive at the same time.

Okay, so in response to that, who are the Finns? We only know them as kind of funny looking guys inside the terangreal. In my opinion they must be a coallition of both dark and light men from an age before.

[Muad Cheade]

Okay, so in response to that, who are the Finns? We only know them as kind of funny looking guys inside the terangreal. In my opinion they must be a coallition of both dark and light men from an age before.

Birgitte says the Finns "are not evil the way the Shadow is evil, yet they are so different from humankind they might as well be."

[Leatherleaf]

No.The reason for Mt uttering phrases of the Old Tongue is due to the Old Blood of Manetheren that runs strongly in the Two Rivers (except for Taren Ferry). Egwene herself feels as if she should understand those words herself.

 

Mat's memories are not his. The are of the numerous adventures and soldiers who visited the Finns through the gateways and the Tower of Ghenjei. Jordan confirmed that.

 

Not quite the whole story. In Ebou Dar when Mat talks with Birgitte right before they get drunk, they are chatting away in the Old Tongue. When Birgitte points out to Mat that he is talking in the Old Tongue, he says it is because of Old Blood of Manetheren. Birgitte laughs and says something along the lines that some people may spurt a few words here and there, not realizing what they said, but Mat fluently speaks the Old Tongue, switching easily in accents as well. There is definitely more to Mat speaking the Old Tongue than just 'Old Blood,' and the obvious connection would be an effect from the Finns.

[mellojoe]

If Matt's head is filled with memories from other men, he most likely can understand their thoughts.

 

If they are from another age and they spoke other languages, it would be fair to assume they thought in those languages.

 

Thus, if Matt can understand the languages in his new memories, he can probably talk those languages, too.

 

My best guess, anyway.

[Cillian]

Not quite the whole story. In Ebou Dar when Mat talks with Birgitte right before they get drunk, they are chatting away in the Old Tongue. When Birgitte points out to Mat that he is talking in the Old Tongue, he says it is because of Old Blood of Manetheren. Birgitte laughs and says something along the lines that some people may spurt a few words here and there, not realizing what they said, but Mat fluently speaks the Old Tongue, switching easily in accents as well. There is definitely more to Mat speaking the Old Tongue than just 'Old Blood,' and the obvious connection would be an effect from the Finns.

 

IIRC, Mat was speaking fluent Old Tounge with the Finns before they worked their tricks. He didn't even realise until Rand mentioned that he had a translator.

But he has a lot more (nay total) control over it since his visit with the Finns

[Durinax]

Not quite the whole story. In Ebou Dar when Mat talks with Birgitte right before they get drunk, they are chatting away in the Old Tongue. When Birgitte points out to Mat that he is talking in the Old Tongue, he says it is because of Old Blood of Manetheren. Birgitte laughs and says something along the lines that some people may spurt a few words here and there, not realizing what they said, but Mat fluently speaks the Old Tongue, switching easily in accents as well. There is definitely more to Mat speaking the Old Tongue than just 'Old Blood,' and the obvious connection would be an effect from the Finns.

 

IIRC, Mat was speaking fluent Old Tounge with the Finns before they worked their tricks. He didn't even realise until Rand mentioned that he had a translator.

But he has a lot more (nay total) control over it since his visit with the Finns

 

yes he would have been able to switch between accents and dialects of the old tongue by the time that he spoke with brigitte because he had already gone through the arch for the second time, and I think that most of his memories would have spoken the old tongue, so it makes sence that he could speak it in the varying dialects and accents

[Agitel]

Not quite the whole story. In Ebou Dar when Mat talks with Birgitte right before they get drunk, they are chatting away in the Old Tongue. When Birgitte points out to Mat that he is talking in the Old Tongue, he says it is because of Old Blood of Manetheren. Birgitte laughs and says something along the lines that some people may spurt a few words here and there, not realizing what they said, but Mat fluently speaks the Old Tongue, switching easily in accents as well. There is definitely more to Mat speaking the Old Tongue than just 'Old Blood,' and the obvious connection would be an effect from the Finns.

 

IIRC, Mat was speaking fluent Old Tounge with the Finns before they worked their tricks. He didn't even realise until Rand mentioned that he had a translator.

But he has a lot more (nay total) control over it since his visit with the Finns

 

yes he would have been able to switch between accents and dialects of the old tongue by the time that he spoke with brigitte because he had already gone through the arch for the second time, and I think that most of his memories would have spoken the old tongue, so it makes sence that he could speak it in the varying dialects and accents

 

That's not what was said. Mat spoke and understood the Old Tongue fluently without even realizing it to the Aelfinn, the snake people from the archway in Tear, before he ever went to see the Eelfinn. The Eelfinn are the ones who gave him the memories.