Illyena

[OptimusPrime]

Why does everyone insist Ilyena could channel?

It has been suggested that she lived a long time, and was certainly still golden-haired when Lews killed her, both of which seem to suggest One Power age-slowing.

 

Where was it suggested that she lived a long time?

[Impressive Bosom]

 

 

It can't be anyone other than Elayne(and not just because of the similarities between names) ... Elayne is Golden-Haired and Light and all that mess...exactly what we were told in EOTW Prologue.

 

JMO!! :)

 

 

Fish

 

You are making the assumption that people look more or lress the same in every incarnation. A quick look at the physical descriptions of Rand and Lews Therin tells us that is not the case.

 

Okay, to answer you both...

 

Alivia is described as blue-eyed and golden haired, exactly as we know Ilyena to have been, though of course that's not the only argument. Her preternatural chanelling ability - and not just her strength, but her ability to copy weaves after seeing them only once, etc. matches what we would expect from one of the stronger and more capable channelers from the Age of Legends which Ilyena was. Then there is that rather intimate viewing that she will 'help Rand die', which could mean just about anything figuratively or literally when we begin discussing the ramifications of someone repeatedly reborn. As well as the many other viewings Min has that 'she just doesn't understand'. Not to mention her fierce yet seemingly inexplicable loyalty to Rand.

 

Now, there is nothing that says that a person reborn must necessarily look as they did in their previous lives, though we do have plenty of examples examples - Birgitte seems to always have that blonde braid, Gaidal Kane is always ugly, Lews Therin is always tall, etc. - more likely though, is that the subtle similarities in her description might be a deliberate clue left for us by the author. He would hardly make such a tremendous revelation like Ilyena reborn without some kind of hinting we could look back at and smack ourselves on the forehead over.

 

I'm not saying that Alivia IS Ilyena reborn, I'm saying that IF anyone is, it is most definitely her. RJ wouldn't make it any one of the harem without making it all of them, and we know that's not possible. Personally, I always leaned towards the three women all collectively being Ilyena reborn as I felt it would explain a lot (even Lanfear recognizes the similarities in Elayne and Ilyena), but from discussions I've seen on this board, RJ has flatly denied that souls could be 'split' in such a fashion.

[witsd]

Where was it suggested that she lived a long time?

Lews dumped Lanfear pre-bore. 'The collapse' lasts 100 — 110 years, and then the War of the Shadow begins. We are told that Lews and Ilyena marry 50 years before the start of the WoS, which itself lasts around 15 years by my estimation from the description in the BWB.

 

So if we assume that she was at least 20 when they married, that puts her at around 85 when killed, and as I said, she is still described as being golden-haired in tEotW's prologue.

 

It's not a certainty – people did generally live longer in the AoL, but it's certainly suggestive of age-slowing.

 

Now, there is nothing that says that a person reborn must necessarily look as they did in their previous lives, though we do have plenty of examples examples - Birgitte seems to always have that blonde braid, Gaidal Kane is always ugly, Lews Therin is always tall, etc.

Hang on – do we know for sure that being reborn is the same process as those who are bound to the wheel and chill out in T'A'R in the meantime?

[Majsju]

Majisju...Actually, Lews Therin and Al Thor could be nearly Twins lol!!!

 

 

Usually, twins have the same colour on their hair and eyes. LTT had brown hair and dark eyes, Rand has red hair and gray eyes.

[The Fisher King]

Maj...not neccesarily.

 

I think you're thinking of Fraternal Twins (commonly referred to as Identical Twins).

 

;)

 

 

Fish

[Majsju]

Given the context of your incorrect statement, it is quite difficult to think of any other kind. What would be the point of saying 'They could be like twins who look nothing like eachother except that both are tall'?

[The Fisher King]

*Embarrased* Oh. Yeah. I see what you mean.

 

 

Fish

[mb]

Why does everyone insist Ilyena could channel?

I have not seen anybody insisting that she could channel.

 

And the books do not explicitly tell whether or not she could.

 

[ed2funy]

Maj...not neccesarily.

 

I think you're thinking of Fraternal Twins (commonly referred to as Identical Twins).

 

;)

 

 

Fish

 

As a fraternal twin (me and my sister), I have to disagree sir.

Fraternal twins are not identical.

 

From Wiki:

Twins can either be monozygotic (MZ, colloquially "identical") or dizygotic (DZ, colloquially "fraternal" or "non-identical").

:P

[Nightstrike]

Everybody have been reborn at some time or another. However, I don't know if Ilyena was reborn as any of the mentioned women? I chose Moiraine anyway, just for sake of voting on something.

[Crael123]

cadsuane.

[Myyrth]

None of the above, and I see no reason evidence to the contrary.

[witsd]

I have not seen anybody insisting that she could channel.

 

And the books do not explicitly tell whether or not she could.

 

I wasn't insisting either, but I do think that it is certainly suggested by her long lifespan + youthful appearance.

[mb]

Voted Rand's 3 lovers; because they would be the most probable if Ilyena is reborn, especially if Ilyena is like linked with Lews Therin (like Birgitte and Gaidal Cain).

 

 

Not sure if Ilyena could channel.

The books do not tell what her age was.

Her and Lews Therin's wedding was probably no earlier than their teen years; though it was more likely later.  Guide tells that their marriage was 50 years before the War of Power.  Eye of World tells that the sealing of the Bore was 10 years after the start of the war.  Lews Therin I take killed her within same year as getting insane.

Thus Ilyena died at a minimum of 73-74 years.

 

The Age of Legends probably had technology and/or treatments that could help non-channelers appear young.  There might have been a chance that Ilyena used those.

 

Though Lews Therin's comment about Ilyena's questioning could indicate that she knew Compulsion and/or Semirhage's technique.  Yet it could also indicate that she used a number of techniques (not necessarily channeling ones) to get people to answer.

 

[Knightfall]

Does it say people are always reborn the same sex as the previous life?

 

If not, my money is on Logain ftw.  ;D

[mb]

Does it say people are always reborn the same sex as the previous life?

I take reborns are always same gender of the soul; I do not have an exact quote, nor do I remember where I read it.