Friend found WoT repetitive

[SirTownsend]

Like it says, I was talking to her about it and she said she only got to the fifth book, found it repetitive and quit....I'm ending the fifth book now and I don't see this. I can kinda see the first three being repetitive, but only a little.  The fourth seemed a lot different to me and so does the fifth so far.  Do any of you think there is any repetition in the series??

[mb]

There seems some degree of repetition in the books.

 

The encounters with the Forsaken might have been what your friend might have been referring to.  Have you asked her?

 

[sonieb33]

You may each be thinking about a different kind of repetition? Does she think the storyline is repetitive or just the author? I find RJ extremely repetitive as far as descriptions go but not as far as the story goes. I don't see any repetition in the story or the storylines though.

 

I could go on in depth about the author's repetitiveness but I'll just make myself angry and want to stop reading again, lol.

 

I find the actual story worth bearing through the constant repetition although sometimes it comes close to not being worth it.

 

As a female I find the female characters very narrow and cliche...and RJ's treatment of the female characters definitively and stereotypically what I think a male would think about female characters. Sometimes he surprises me though, not often, but sometimes he actually has some insight, but like I said this is the exception.

[dapianoplay3r]

I have a friend that said the same thing but she said it was the whole convo with ishy about how they would just keep fighting over and over as the wheel turned. She thought that was stupid

[Cillian]

Like it says, I was talking to her about it and she said she only got to the fifth book, found it repetitive and quit....I'm ending the fifth book now and I don't see this. I can kinda see the first three being repetitive, but only a little.  The fourth seemed a lot different to me and so does the fifth so far.  Do any of you think there is any repetition in the series??

 

Disown her.

[SirTownsend]

She said she loved the series just she didn't like the repetitiveness of it, she told me it was mainly the plot in general seemed to repeat itself, but like I said for me that seemed to change by the fourth book.

[Graendals favourite]

I have a friend that said the same thing but she said it was the whole convo with ishy about how they would just keep fighting over and over as the wheel turned. She thought that was stupid

Tat tat, she believed Ishamael? As RJ said, Ishy is a lying liar who lies.  ;)

[acerbus80]

I never really noticed it the first time I read the series (which took me all of about 3 months) but upon my second reading I have noticed a lot of repetitious elements to it.

 

Nyn pulling her braid.

 

The constant battle of the sexes.

 

Sheepherder references.

 

Perrin's beard.

 

Saldean's tilted eyes.

 

Elaida's fetish with red clothes.

 

Along with that are RJ's pandering long rants describing scenery and people's actions to the extent that it distracts from any dialogue that takes place.

 

IMHO, had RJ cut out half of his descriptive passages, the series could have been finished 3 books ago.

[Auld Manriva]

and it would not be the story it is..

 

A lot of that list above are "running gags"...

 

pulling the braid

arms folded beneath her breasts, etc.

 

and if you notice, most of these books can stand alone or nearly.

[acerbus80]

Even gags get old after awhile.

[sonieb33]

I never really noticed it the first time I read the series (which took me all of about 3 months) but upon my second reading I have noticed a lot of repetitious elements to it.

 

Nyn pulling her braid.

 

The constant battle of the sexes.

 

Sheepherder references.

 

Perrin's beard.

 

Saldean's tilted eyes.

 

Elaida's fetish with red clothes.

 

Along with that are RJ's pandering long rants describing scenery and people's actions to the extent that it distracts from any dialogue that takes place.

 

IMHO, had RJ cut out half of his descriptive passages, the series could have been finished 3 books ago.

 

OH my GOSH! I SOOOO AGREE WITH YOU!

[sonieb33]

 

and if you notice, most of these books can stand alone or nearly.

 

This is a good point. I've noticed that he recaps things from previous books throughout each subsequent book...and I always assumed it was for people who have not read the previous books. Although I'd hate the start the series somewhere in the middle I think RJ made it possible that way for people to pick up a book and start reading and not necessarily need to start with book one. As the series progresses though the plotlines become so complex I don't think it would be a very good read starting somewhere in the middle...too bad I'm not still in college, I would make that a research project, lol. 

[Majsju]

 

and if you notice, most of these books can stand alone or nearly.

 

This is a good point. I've noticed that he recaps things from previous books throughout each subsequent book...and I always assumed it was for people who have not read the previous books. Although I'd hate the start the series somewhere in the middle I think RJ made it possible that way for people to pick up a book and start reading and not necessarily need to start with book one. As the series progresses though the plotlines become so complex I don't think it would be a very good read starting somewhere in the middle...too bad I'm not still in college, I would make that a research project, lol. 

 

No, RJ explicitly said that you must start with TEOTW, or you will not be able to understand what is going on. (NS is a bit of an exception, but since it is not part of the main series, it does not quite count).

[sonieb33]

 

No, RJ explicitly said that you must start with TEOTW, or you will not be able to understand what is going on. (NS is a bit of an exception, but since it is not part of the main series, it does not quite count).

 

Ok then, if this is true then DANG they're horribly repetitive! I thought there was a method to the madness, now I find there's not. Honestly, I think he planned on dragging this series out until people really COULD channel.

[Ataxia]

Want your friend to really hate the books? Let her read all of the useless which dress to wear parts.

[SirTownsend]

I do see the small things that are repetitive, but not anything more.  Each is unique in it's own way to me with only little repetition.  maybe I should get her started back up, she may change her mind. 

 

I agree with the fact that you HAVE to start with TEOTW,  I have trouble remembering things from book to book and I only allow a month between books (I don't want to become burnt on them but I like them a lot so a month is a good time.) Also there are many things different than the first book, and information he does not recap.....he prob. only recaps so he can refresh readers who have not read in a while but know the series. 

[lillcheese]

I'm probably the only person in the universe, or at least on these forums, who doesn't mind the Elayne dress choosing bits.  I started reading these just when I started to think about clothing strategically (instead of grabbing the first clean tshirt & jeans to come to hand).  Obviously I'm not wearing silk dresses with embroidery, but i feel some of the principles cross over.  Also, the food descriptions make me want to put down my book and play in the kitchen. 

 

But to the subject at hand, i think the one repetition that drives a lot of people nuts is the insistence the characters have on not communicating in any fashion with each other.

[Auld Manriva]

I don't believe I suggested starting in the middle. Just that one could pick up a book, read it, enjoy that piece of a story and be energized to go find the rest.

 

They are not meant to stand alone, but I find, and I don't need correction from hizzoner, that each book CAN in a pinch stand by itself as a good read. Notwithstanding all the endless carping about how some are not as good as others. IT's bloody TWELVE BOOKS! There are bound to be better and worse.

[Myyrth]

The one thing I find absolutely mind numbingly infuriating at times is how ridiculously self-centered people in Randland are at times.  Their seems to be absolutely no philosophical depth or understanding of cultural and social relativity at all.  Which may simply be the fact that it's a primitive feudal society but seriously!

 

The constant battle of the sex's is the worst, mostly because it's constantly referenced and at the fore front of every male female interaction.  It doesn't even play a subtle role.

 

Also Aes Sedai are among the most stupid and blind fools i've ever seen. For supposedly being "scholars" they are about as ignorant as it's possible to be while still having an education.  Many times have I fondly thought having Mat's medallion and slowly strangling the life out of some self-assured Aes Sedai laughing all the while (maybe that makes me wierd)

[witsd]

She's completely correct.

 

RJ was a horribly repetitive writer in terms of both style and content.

 

Firstly (and most time-consumingly), if we are supposed to read the series in order, why do we spend the first fifty pages of most books re-hashing information that we already know? Did he think that all his readers suffered from ADHD?

 

Secondly, aren't running gags supposed to be amusing? At best, some of them might make you smile the first time (such as the fact that each of the boys think that the other two are good with women, or the 'audible capital letters') but how many times can you use the same material before it really starts to grate?

 

If it weren't for the fact that the story is so good, I would have given up with this series years ago.

 

Thankfully, BS seemed to do away with most of these 'jokes' in tGS.

[Amra]

Got to admit that I'm finding this too. I'm only on Book 8 so far, but if I read about "spots of colour appearing on her cheeks" one more time I'll scream! I strongly suspect I'll be doing a lot of screaming before I get to the end. And I've never, ever seen women "adjusting their skirts": what's with that? It's not even one woman's quirky habit, like Nynaeve's braid-tugging: they ALL do it, every opportunity they get, no matter what emotion they're feeling.

 

The most irritating factor for me is the sexual morality expressed throughout the series. While I'm quite happy to suspend belief and accept monsters and Trollocs and channelling etc, I just can't get my head round all the blushing, both from men as well as women. I can accept that a girl like Elayne, brought up as a princess in a sheltered environment, would blush at an exposed breast or nudity, but for almost everyone in the world to have the same attitude is quite frankly ridiculous, especially for country people brought up on farms where they'd have witnessed the natural facts of life on a daily basis. I'm not saying there should be graphic accounts of sexual activity (it's not that kind of story), just an acknowledgement of basic human nature and behaviour that would be more true to life would have made the story more satisfying for me. And as for the men who blush furiously every time anything more than a kiss is even hinted at.... sorry, it's just not believable at all.

 

I definitely agree with Myyrth about the 'battle of the sexes': I'm not sure what point RJ is trying to make here. Again, you'd expect a few people to have different views, but EVERYONE seems to share the same views, aside from the people of Ebou Dar where it seems inverted. Has NO-ONE, in the whole of the continent, figured out how male/female interaction actually works? No-one to give some decent advice to the young kids? Even supposed wise elders don't seem to have figured out the opposite sex. What's interesting is that, like in some wishful-thinking, female fantasy, all the women seem to think the men should be subservient to them, and even though the men, despite their grumbling, generally are, the one male character who absolutely refuses to do anything women tell him to do, or be led by the nose, is the one who has three women in love with him! That tells you all you need to know about the 'battle of the sexes' LOL!

 

I find myself now skipping, or at least skimming, passages, to get over a lot of the padding (like the dress details etc) to get back to what's actually happening.

 

Having said that though, I am enjoying the overall story: it's a good story, just maybe RJ wasn't the best writer to write it. I kind of wish someone like Robert E. Howard had written this: sure, it would have been a very different series, but there would have been a lot more action and a lot less unnecessary and repetitive padding. I feel it could have made a fantastic trilogy, or even six books, but 14 in total really does seem like it's been dragged out to make more money. So, I'll stick it out, just because I want to see how it ends (even though we all know that Rand is gonna save the world in the end LOL), but as good as it is, it is still, for me, deeply flawed.

[witsd]

Having said that though, I am enjoying the overall story: it's a good story, just maybe RJ wasn't the best writer to write it. I kind of wish someone like Robert E. Howard had written this...

Or Brandon Sanderson?

 

I'd be interested to know what you think of the difference in writing styles, once you've read tGS...

[The Fisher King]

Here Be The Deal:

 

Someone above said that he story really began to branch off in different directions for the first time in Book 4 (TSR) and I agree soooo totally.

 

The first 3 followed the same pattern...The Gang is together in the beginning...gets seperated...all end up back together at end and Rand battles a Forsaken (usually Baalzamon, who he thinks is The Dark One) and then The End.

 

First 3...Very repetitive (still grea though).

 

Just my opinionado!!!

 

 

Fish

[Anoxanmore]

Bleh all of you with your criticisms need to be taken out back and shot (the criticisms not your person).

 

It isn't repetitive, its part of the plot and only the best authors are able to detail a scene so you can see it in your minds eye without excessive description.

 

LOTR is overly descriptive. WoT, is not, and as much as some may not like it, you need to realize there is a reason for everything in the book. After a few re-reads its pretty easy to see. 

[Dreamwalker]

I have a friend that said the same thing but she said it was the whole convo with ishy about how they would just keep fighting over and over as the wheel turned. She thought that was stupid

 

I was shocked when I read this - that single quote is what made me buy the first book. I read that part in the bookstore and immediately was like - EPIC!!! Then when I bought the book and got to the end of the prologue, I realized just how much I'd underestimated it's epic-ness.

 

Also to everyone complaining about dress descriptions, habits, etc. - I think this is a big thing that differentiates Jordan from other writers - he doesn't just tell a story, he completely builds an entire world. That is also what is so great about Tolkien, IMHO.

 

But, I acknowledge that it's not everyone's cup of tea - I can understand why you might feel it gets in the way of the pacing of the plot if you are wanting it to get onto what happens already and are less interested in the world he's writing as a whole. That's a matter of taste - I also like reading a lot of the smaller storylines besides Rand's while I know some people wish it would focus more on him or more on just the three ta'veren.