The Body Swap Theory - Updated. (Spoilers)

[Wantanswers]

In KoD, chapter 10, we saw a village in the world of dead and a peddler, sinking in the ground. Since I read this i have been wondering:

Did this man dy or was he sinking through a doorway to world of dead.

In the latter case he has gone there in the flesh and is he "dead yet living".

 

I think Alivia will help Rand die by making a doorway to the world of dead; live al the lives he had before (the masques) like the Heroes of the Horn in TAR and all his wounds will be healed. Perhaps he will even have to do much more there, but all the things I can think of are in the catagorie: It would be fun if....

 

Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth.

Imo, this could mean: entering and returning from the world of dead

[ed2funy]

Interesting.

That is a cool theory.

I won't rip it apart, but others might. :P

 

But it is still cool. ;D

[mike-cook]

For the "he who is dead yet lives" thyeory. we should look at the dark propecy which is very similar to this.

 

"Luc came to the mountains of dhoom, Isam waited in the high passes

one did live, and one did die, but both are"

or something like that.

[Disco]

"like a paper puppet"  doesn't necessarily mean it has anything to do with a puppet. It could just the way the face crumbles.  For example if it "crumbled like a old piece of cake" would we have a pastry thread?

 

Just something to consider, I'd say odds are the word 'puppet' has a lot to do with this, but keep in mind that isn't necessary.

[Gordar]

I still like the Moridin repenting idea (it's not really a theory imho).

 

Maybe it'll go like this (keep in mind that I'm not a successfull writer) :

 

Rand: Alivia, my blood needs to be spilled on Shayol Ghul.

Alivia: I can help you with that. Let me blast a hole through your body.

Rand:  Thanks Alivia, this is just what I wanted you to do.

 

Rand, while dying because of the wound that Alivia caused notices that Moridin (or technically speaking, Elan Morin Tedronai, as I doubt he still deserves the name the DO gave him (only Lanfear chose her own original name) after he betrays the DO).

 

Elan : You fool! This is not the way to defeat the DO! But now that you're dying there's nothing else we can do about it.... But wait! What if you take over my body, then you could continue to do whatever it is you're supposed to be doing and it'll be a good way for me to repent for my deeds!

 

Moridin weaves a weave that we've never seen before & pulls Rand's dying soul out of his own body & into his own, technically killing himself.

 

 

 

Another possibility is that Rand takes over Logain's body. Logain was promised glory & we haven't seen much glorious deeds/actions from the guy until now. I agree that this is less likely, since Moridin & Rand already seem to have some sort of link.

[OptimusPrime]

For the "he who is dead yet lives" thyeory. we should look at the dark propecy which is very similar to this.

 

"Luc came to the mountains of dhoom, Isam waited in the high passes

one did live, and one did die, but both are"

or something like that.

 

Thank you, I have said this in other threads myself. It is ENTIRELY possible that Luckers elaborate theory may not be fully accurate. One did live and one did die, but both are. Two men merge, one dies, the Rand/Moridin thing could easily turn out like Luc and Isam.

 

Also, whatever happens after this merge, I think that is what is wrong with Aviendhas kids. Ha! I can just imagine it, every once in a while Aviendha feels like dallying with a wetlander. Rand becomes Moridin... hahaha

[Luckers]

For the "he who is dead yet lives" thyeory. we should look at the dark propecy which is very similar to this.

 

"Luc came to the mountains of dhoom, Isam waited in the high passes

one did live, and one did die, but both are"

or something like that.

 

Thank you, I have said this in other threads myself. It is ENTIRELY possible that Luckers elaborate theory may not be fully accurate. One did live and one did die, but both are. Two men merge, one dies, the Rand/Moridin thing could easily turn out like Luc and Isam.

 

Also, whatever happens after this merge, I think that is what is wrong with Aviendhas kids. Ha! I can just imagine it, every once in a while Aviendha feels like dallying with a wetlander. Rand becomes Moridin... hahaha

 

I have offered my thoughts on this. There is no reason to act like it's a big revelation.

 

Why a Swap? Why Not a Merge?

 

The Merge Theory, that Rand and Moridin will merge in a similar way to Mordeth and Fain, or Luc and Isam, was mostly based in Min's viewing of two men blurring together. In my opinion that prophecy was resolved in Threads of Gold, but since not everyone agrees I'll cover this issue.

 

Firstly, a merge would not resolve the requirements which were the original reason for suggesting the Body Swap. Rand would not be dead yet alive; he would not have killed himself with Alivia's aid, and so on.

 

Secondly, a merge is made implausible by the nature of the link itself. Yes, thoughts are crossing, but at all stages Rand and Moridin remain completely distinct--in KoD Rand thinks that he could reach out and touch Moridin, showing a clear sense of Moridin's dimensions--the boundaries where he ends and Rand begins. In tGS the link is active so strongly it pulls Rand out through his wards, yet there is not even the slightest indication that their souls might be blurring together. Each man remains distinct from the other.

 

So yes, I don't see a basis for a merge, and it doesn't fit the nature of the link.

[ed2funy]

Lies.

:P

[Luckers]

I be Luckers. I rarely lie, and then only for financial advancement.

[ed2funy]

So..this theory is being sold in a store near you!

:D

 

I don't want the link or the merge to happen.

*stamps foot*

[OptimusPrime]

I have offered my thoughts on this. There is no reason to act like it's a big revelation

 

I was offering my own thoughts. No need to act like its an attack on your theory, or act like your oppinion is greater than anyones.

 

I be Luckers. I rarely lie

 

Rarely is not never. Plus if you were a liar you'd be bound to say that.

 

and then only for financial advancement

 

Or to avoid humiliation! Aaaaahahahahahaha

 

I don't want the link or the merge to happen.

*stamps foot*

 

Its entirely possible that that viewing has already been fulfilled-at the end of TGS the prophecy says "at the end of time, when the many become one." Of course, that theory will be cheaper than the one Luckers is selling, but you wont be beaten with it, unless you ask

[ed2funy]

lol....sorry, I meant the merge or the swap.

I don't like either.

:P

[MauricXe]

my guess is that Moridin dies, and it sends Rand into a deep coma close to death because of their link.

[Agitel]

I've been thinking. Why must Rand's current body die? If Rand and Moridin are truly linked, and if this link is growing stronger, and if this link is a link between souls, the Pattern may start to consider both of them to be the same soul. Therefore the prophecies or viewings speaking of Rand's death might actually be connected to Moridin's death, if there is confusion and a  blurred line. If Moridin dies, then technically it may be considered Rand's death, even though Rand's body may continue to live.

 

However, we have seen negative effects on Moridin's body due to Rand's injury. I think Rand's ability to channel the True Power may be connected to their souls becoming indistinguishable to some degree, though after some denial of the possibility, I do acknowledge that there's another possibility for this channeling than Moridin's link.

 

If Moridin starts becoming ta'veren, then I really think this may be possible. We'll have to see, though.

[Disco]

So that's it. I know alot of you don't like the Body Swap. I don't really like it myself, but it fits. And, to date, it is the only one that does fit.

 

Here we go...

Disco's "Kill the Legend" Theory

I believe this fits and satisfies all prophecies.

 

We are all assuming that Rand's death is quite literal, but as Luckers points out, there is something about the word "yet".  He doesn't die and comes back, but he dies "yet" lives.

 

This is what I thought would happen before the baelfire crossing, before I had the internet to explore theories.

 

Perhaps he needs to appear dead, to kill the legend of the dragon, so that all forget about the Dragon. The world must think the Dragon is dead. "The Dragon" dies, yet Rand al'Thor does not. The reasons behind why this would be necessary I cannot come up with, but I feel it does fit all the prophecies.

 

The Prophecies of Rand's Death

 

1. EGWENE DREAMING: Logain, laughing, stepped across something on the ground and mounted a black stone; when she looked down, she thought it was Rand's body he had stepped over, laid out on a funeral bier with his hands crossed at his breast, but when she touched his face, it broke apart like a paper puppet. [ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 202]

 

2. EGWENE DREAMING: A man lay dying in a narrow bed, and it was important that he not die, yet outside a funeral pyre was being built, and voices raised songs of joy and sadness. [ACOS: 10, Unseen Eyes, 203]

 

4. MIN VIEWING: three women standing over a funeral bier with [Rand] on it. [tEotW]

 

5. MIN VIEWING: [Min]"Rand, I like Alivia, But she is going to kill you." [Rand replies]: "You said she was going to help me die… Those were your words." [WH: 25, Bonds, 483]

 

6.1 NICOLA FORETELLING: Three on the boat, and he who is dead yet lives. [LOC: 14, Dreams and Nightmares, 255] [Which we know is Rand because of the next point.]

 

6.2 WISE ONE DREAMING: Melaine and Bair dreamed of [Rand] on a boat with three women whose faces they could not see and a scale tilting first one way and then the other. [LOC: 19, Matters of Toh, 312]

 

7.1 AELFINN ANSWER: [Rand] knew he had a chance to live, if a seemingly impossible one. If you would live, you must die. [LOC: 26, Connecting Lines, 373]

 

7.2 AELFINN ANSWER: [Rand] had been told by those he had to believe. To live, you must die. [WH: 25, Bonds, 483]

 

Now I am not saying my theory is that great, since I can't think of a reason why Rand would need to appear dead to everyone. But surely the idea of all that he represents and all that he is 'dies', whereas the he does not, makes around as much sense as the 'bodyswap' theory.

 

Thoughts?

[water_seeker]

Perhaps he needs to appear dead, to kill the legend of the dragon, so that all forget about the Dragon. The world must think the Dragon is dead. "The Dragon" dies, yet Rand al'Thor does not. The reasons behind why this would be necessary I cannot come up with, but I feel it does fit all the prophecies.

 

I'd say that Rand has to die so the Dragon could fully live...we might have seen the first stage of that at the end of the book...

[OptimusPrime]

I would love it if Moridin could see Mat and Perrin when he thinks of them

[thewalrus777]

It seems to me that all of the prophecies and foretellings are saying that Rand will in fact be around after TG we just aren't sure how. I doubt a body swap will happen, because that would be terrible and god awful cheesy. Truthfully, i believe Flinn and Nynaeve will bring Rand back to life using Callandor. We've seen amazing things happening with the OP, and why not have the one thing said to be impossible become a reaity. And it's far less annoying the body swap theory.

[Disco]

Perhaps he needs to appear dead, to kill the legend of the dragon, so that all forget about the Dragon. The world must think the Dragon is dead. "The Dragon" dies, yet Rand al'Thor does not. The reasons behind why this would be necessary I cannot come up with, but I feel it does fit all the prophecies.

 

I'd say that Rand has to die so the Dragon could fully live...we might have seen the first stage of that at the end of the book...

 

This has crossed my mind but I don't think the prophecies really make sense then. Rands face as a puppet?  Hmmm or maybe thats the whole point of the book, the Dragon has no choice in his future? Nah...

 

edit: by the way luckers i want to hear what you think of 'kill the legend'

[water_seeker]

Perhaps he needs to appear dead, to kill the legend of the dragon, so that all forget about the Dragon. The world must think the Dragon is dead. "The Dragon" dies, yet Rand al'Thor does not. The reasons behind why this would be necessary I cannot come up with, but I feel it does fit all the prophecies.

 

I'd say that Rand has to die so the Dragon could fully live...we might have seen the first stage of that at the end of the book...

 

This has crossed my mind but I don't think the prophecies really make sense then. Rands face as a puppet?  Hmmm or maybe thats the whole point of the book, the Dragon has no choice in his future? Nah...

 

edit: by the way luckers i want to hear what you think of 'kill the legend'

 

I woulnd't see Rand as a puppet, and I don't think the Dragon really has any choice.  By Rand sacrificing himself he would be opening up to becoming the Dragon completely and only then would he really be who he was meant to be all along.

[OptimusPrime]

Rand isnt supposed to be the Dragon. Hes supposed to be the Dragon Reborn

[Disco]

Yes, and the world believes that the Dragon Reborn is dead, meanwhile the one that sees beyond, the lion and the spear row their boat forward.

[james2095]

Rand/Lews Therin will literally die - by balefire.  The day comes twice.  The strength of the balefire rewinds to a point in the pattern where Rand lives, yet Lews Therin (even though there has been integration Lews Therin remains distinct) is gone.  The result on the other side of the balefire the DO is sealed again.  The great battle done, but the world will be in a state of conflict because the blast did not seal or destroy the DO minions.  Simple stuff.

[james2095]

Of course there's more layers to it than the brief statement I just posted.  For example, if I am correct there will be witnesses who will see Rand living, but they will distinctly remember and know that he died. That is a reasonable inference from the nature of balefire. Remember the conclusion of tFoH?

[Calderis]

Prophecy is meant to only be understood after the fact. Part of me says this because I have faith in both RJ and BS abilities as authors, and part because I absolutely DESPISE the body swap theory. But I can't wait until somethin none of us considered happens and the fits the criteria and we all go, "Oh, damn. good job, I never saw that comin."

 

*DESPISE*