Ask A Simple Question, Get a Simple Answer (No AMoL Spoilers)

[thisguy]

I was wondering, does anyone have a list of the named characters the Fain/Ordeith corrupted when he was criss crossing the globe making Madeshar-intensified trouble for team LIght?

 

Mine is

PEdron Niall

Eladia

....

hmm...

Dain Bornhold

 

Also, have we seen anyone who has Fain-induced paranoia return to baseline as it were? I wonder if Dain is the only one who is one that path.

Other minor or major characters.... no. A bunch of WCs and some assorted nobles. OH! Toram - the noble who wanted to become King of Cairhien. Lan kills him in Far Madding.

[Joebiwan]

I looked around a bit and did not see anything. In LoC Mat and the Band find a bunch of slain Tinkers, and one of them wrote "Tell the Dragon Reborn" in his blood. is this explained in the books anywhere? I'm in the middle of a re-read and I have forgoten alot so maybe I just have'nt gotten to it yet.

[thisguy]

I looked around a bit and did not see anything. In LoC Mat and the Band find a bunch of slain Tinkers, and one of them wrote "Tell the Dragon Reborn" in his blood. is this explained in the books anywhere? I'm in the middle of a re-read and I have forgoten alot so maybe I just have'nt gotten to it yet.

I just think it's Fain taunting Rand. Killing Tinkers isn't nice.

[yoniy0]

I looked around a bit and did not see anything. In LoC Mat and the Band find a bunch of slain Tinkers, and one of them wrote "Tell the Dragon Reborn" in his blood. is this explained in the books anywhere? I'm in the middle of a re-read and I have forgoten alot so maybe I just have'nt gotten to it yet.

I just think it's Fain taunting Rand. Killing Tinkers isn't nice.

How do you figure? I mean, what made you think of Fain, of all people?

[thisguy]

I looked around a bit and did not see anything. In LoC Mat and the Band find a bunch of slain Tinkers, and one of them wrote "Tell the Dragon Reborn" in his blood. is this explained in the books anywhere? I'm in the middle of a re-read and I have forgoten alot so maybe I just have'nt gotten to it yet.

I just think it's Fain taunting Rand. Killing Tinkers isn't nice.

How do you figure? I mean, what made you think of Fain, of all people?

There's no logic to it. It's what came into my mind. It could have been someone trying stir the pot, trying to get Rand to distrust the Aiel as they were moving down to Tear along that path. But, it seemed too small of a thing for the Forsaken to do. Could have been random DFs.

 

Edit to add: It may have been that the last time we saw a message left to be found and written in blood was in Shienar when Fain is broken out of prison.

Edited September 12, 2012 by thisguy

[Vardar]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

[thisguy]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

[Vardar]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

 

Touche ya got me.

 

Interesting!

[thisguy]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

 

Touche ya got me.

 

Interesting!

Hahaha! I'm sure you've gotten me already. Yeah, what's more interesting is that somewhere either in that book or the one previous, the Forsaken are at a meeting and someone says that Choeden Kal is indestructible - but maybe they meant the actual sarangreal and not the terangreal keys.

[Vardar]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

 

Touche ya got me.

 

Interesting!

Hahaha! I'm sure you've gotten me already. Yeah, what's more interesting is that somewhere either in that book or the one previous, the Forsaken are at a meeting and someone says that Choeden Kal is indestructible - but maybe they meant the actual sarangreal and not the terangreal keys.

 

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

[thisguy]

Thanks Yo and Sutt.

 

That's odd. So the WIndfinders are better at weather than the people in AOL, and it stressed the device. Hmm, I wonder if you can stress a Ter'Angral enough to break or if this proves it can't.

 

Oh well.

You can do it with a sarangreal - Choeden Kal.

 

He didn't overload it, he turned it's power back into itself. Theres a slight difference.

The female key is melted after cleansing saidin and useless.

 

Touche ya got me.

 

Interesting!

Hahaha! I'm sure you've gotten me already. Yeah, what's more interesting is that somewhere either in that book or the one previous, the Forsaken are at a meeting and someone says that Choeden Kal is indestructible - but maybe they meant the actual sarangreal and not the terangreal keys.

 

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

It is the key - the terangreal - that is broken.

[yoniy0]

It is the key - the terangreal - that is broken.

No, actually it's the sa'angreal itself:

The Great Hand on Tremalking melted. The hill where it stood reportedly is now a deep hollow.

[thisguy]

It is the key - the terangreal - that is broken.

No, actually it's the sa'angreal itself:

The Great Hand on Tremalking melted. The hill where it stood reportedly is now a deep hollow.

OH! Then, it's both. I finished the book far too late last night. I've been doing that far too often on the reread. I remember that Cads is handling the broken terangreal key at the end of the cleansing chapter, though.

 

Edit: Thanks, yon.

Edited September 12, 2012 by thisguy

[yoniy0]

Oh, yes, I didn't mean that the access key survived. It's just that in KoD we learn that not only did it melt, the sa'angreal itself melted.

[thisguy]

Oh, yes, I didn't mean that the access key survived. It's just that in KoD we learn that not only did it melt, the sa'angreal itself melted.

Gotcha.

[MasterAblar]

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

 

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

Edited September 12, 2012 by Master Ablar

[Durinax]

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

 

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

well we know they are unsafe to use without one of the access keys, so they must be a special kind of sa angreal

[mb]

The Ter'angreal drew on Saidin, probably because for effective control of the weather it was best if saidin and saidar were used together. It was made with this in mind so it could be used when only one gender is present.

@mb I don't recall any quote that would satisfy you, but the question seems self-explanatory, as Knivy says. It's a function of the ter'angreal.

 

Ok; though it makes little sense.

 

 

I looked around a bit and did not see anything. In LoC Mat and the Band find a bunch of slain Tinkers, and one of them wrote "Tell the Dragon Reborn" in his blood. is this explained in the books anywhere? I'm in the middle of a re-read and I have forgoten alot so maybe I just have'nt gotten to it yet.

As far as I am aware, neither author told who did/ordered the attack on tinkers nor who wrote the message. As far as I recall, this event has not been brought up again in the books.

The message might have come from any of these::

-the victims

-the attackers

-a witness

-a person that passed by; after the attack, but before the Band came.

and perhaps there might have been other candidates.

As for who did/ordered the attack, that was speculated in a number of past threads. One theory has been Fain.

[yoniy0]

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

I find that unlikely on several fronts. First of all, Nynaeve is very strong. Very. If she's not strong enough, then who would be, Lanfear and that's it? After all, they were meant to be used, weren't they? Secondly, the CK weren't supposed to be used continuously for hours on end, which is a much more likely explanation. Third, in anyone's to blame, it's probably Rand, who might've 'abused' saidar since it was his first time ever in a link.

Anyway, it's all speculation; we simply don't know.

[Luckers]

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

 

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

 

Actually the more likely reason was not the amount of Power drawn (far more saidin was used than saidar [an ant/mole hill next to a mountain]), or the strength of the channeler who used it (Nynaeve is cited as having sufficient strength, and the point you're referencing (Moghedien's comment) about the Choedan Kal being used at great strength for a long period of time is just as applicable to the male one--more so, because more Power was used). The most likely reason was the USE to which saidar was put.

 

Specifically, in the Cleansing Rand used saidar to wring the Taint from saidin--as if saidin were a wet towel, the Taint were the water, and saidar were the hands that wrung it. Of course it's actually more complex than that, and far worse--saidin and saidar cannot mix and Rand used that concept to generate the force that compressed the Taint out of saidin--and saidar was the side of the Power he used to generate that force.

 

Hence, saidar was the stressor, whilst saidin was largely passive--the effects on it being the result of the application of force upon it by saidar. And, as a result, though more saidin was used, it was saidar that expended the effort, and thus the saidar Choedan Kal that felt the strain of it (and like you might snap a tendon in your hand if you wrung a towel too forcefully, so too did the Choedan Kal break)

[Vardar]

Good point. I'm actually not sure how the Female one was destroyed. How can something made to draw power in be destroyed by drawring power?I mean I understand how Rand destroyed his, he did it on purpose. But I always thought the Female one just destroyed the key. They I read closer and realized the actualy item was destroyed.

 

Nyneave. She was strong enough to use it, but apparently not strong enough to use it for the extent of time with she did without it "overheating". Not really sure why that would happen though. Afterall even the weakest channeller can use a angreal without it being destroyed. But then, the CK are sort of special. Their power levels are off the charts, so I suppose they're basically glass cannons. The "handle with extreme caution" type of equipement.

 

Actually the more likely reason was not the amount of Power drawn (far more saidin was used than saidar [an ant/mole hill next to a mountain]), or the strength of the channeler who used it (Nynaeve is cited as having sufficient strength, and the point you're referencing (Moghedien's comment) about the Choedan Kal being used at great strength for a long period of time is just as applicable to the male one--more so, because more Power was used). The most likely reason was the USE to which saidar was put.

 

Specifically, in the Cleansing Rand used saidar to wring the Taint from saidin--as if saidin were a wet towel, the Taint were the water, and saidar were the hands that wrung it. Of course it's actually more complex than that, and far worse--saidin and saidar cannot mix and Rand used that concept to generate the force that compressed the Taint out of saidin--and saidar was the side of the Power he used to generate that force.

 

Hence, saidar was the stressor, whilst saidin was largely passive--the effects on it being the result of the application of force upon it by saidar. And, as a result, though more saidin was used, it was saidar that expended the effort, and thus the saidar Choedan Kal that felt the strain of it (and like you might snap a tendon in your hand if you wrung a towel too forcefully, so too did the Choedan Kal break)

 

Damn Luck beat me too it. I was about to say, I really doubt it was a time thing, I mean, who knows how long it would take to destroy the Armies of the Shadow and seal the boar, it had to be the taint itself or something of the sort.

[Oort]

seal the boar

This is a very disturbing picture or might it be a sword form?

[yoniy0]

seal the boar

This is a very disturbing picture or might it be a sword form?

I'm thinking more along the lines of "easing the badger"...

[Knivy]

seal the boar

This is a very disturbing picture or might it be a sword form?

I'm thinking more along the lines of "easing the badger"...

You beat me by six minutes.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Knivy

[Hagazussa]

I find that unlikely on several fronts. First of all, Nynaeve is very strong. Very. If she's not strong enough, then who would be, Lanfear and that's it? After all, they were meant to be used, weren't they? Secondly, the CK weren't supposed to be used continuously for hours on end, which is a much more likely explanation. Third, in anyone's to blame, it's probably Rand, who might've 'abused' saidar since it was his first time ever in a link.

 

Rand have never been one for practice runs have he? Normal people might have decided to do something simple in a link just to try it out first before they went on to the thing everyone saw as impossible. :P

 

Anyway could it not be a combination of things that made the CK act up, both the fact of how long they where working, and that Rand being one of the most powerful male channelers so linking with him stress things even more. I mean there do not need to be one, single reason, there can be many things combined that then created the problem.