What's Going on at the Black Tower? (Full Spoilers)

[Sharaman]

Why does everyone keep assuming that Taim is a Darkfriend....IMHO he is just an arrogant crazy male channeller. I mean he has been channelling for what...10+ years? Most men go insane after jut a few months...

I am thinking crazy Taim has gone mad with power and is making his own "elite squad".

The LoC saying isn't really restricted only to DFs, is it?

 

It's not a common saying except among the Chosen and maybe, scholars of the AoL. His instructions to the Ashaman to kill Rand in Far Madding are difficult to understand unless he is a Friend of the Dark.

 

 

About the Demi connection (no I am not going to be the 50milionth person to say Taim=Demi don't worry). If Taim is a DF I am voting that he is like....a new forsaken since I don't really see him as any sort of lackey to any of the forsaken.

 

Ok, you're the 20 millionth person to speculate that he is a new Chosen/ Dreadlord - maybe you're right. It's quite possible. 

 

Demi thinks he is his subordinate tho and that is why he states he actually has an army. (On a totally different topic which army does Demi have in his palm? I mean he states he has a ready army at one of the Chosen only tea parties but there are only so many armies in the world. Two armies are brought to mind:

*The prophets army (Which he does not yet know is crushed...tho not very likely...I mean sure the Prophet has been influenced by a Forsaken (he thinks about the visions of Rand he has had but they sound TOO much like the way forsaken appear) but he hardly has something one would call and army

*BT....nuff said :P )

 

Dem says "My rule is secure. We gather for war. We will be ready."

Nothing there actually stated about an army or armies. 

[thewalrus777]

As posted above, Demandred never mentions having an army, just a secure rule of something. And as we all know we hadn't even met Demi's alter ego as KoD. I can't really say if we saw it in TGS, only BS can answer that.

 

As for Taim as a new Chosen/Forsaken, it's very possible and probably likely. He has every characteristic the DO looks for in whom he would want to serve him directly. Not to mention he's apparently incredibly strong in the OP, almost rivaling RaT/LTT. I say it strength wise, because of when Rand made the comparison, and how far along in the series that comparison was made.

[Vermillion]

I have a feeling Taim is more than what he lets on.  He talks like a Chosen and seems to have survived the DO's taint for too long without going mad.  Also seems to know a lot of about the OP such as finding those who can channel.

 

I have wondered if Taim is a Chosen reborn with taint induced memories.  One of the Chosen but one of the ones outside of the 13 famous ones. 

[Ataxia]

His order to kill Rand could've been because he thinks he has gone mad and will take over as the DR. The ones who told him he went nuts using Callandor were DF and could have exaggerated the situation. They could have been like hes gone too far, we need to give him the wine.

[Crael123]

I think that Taim KNOWS a lot more than he lets on as well. we really need to get some info on him.

[thewalrus777]

Whose to say the DO wouldn't pick new Chosen. He had a whole lot more than 13 of them back in the day. I mean his stable is rapidly diminishing in size. He has the power to do it. Shaidar Haran just needs to bring Taim to SG to the Pit of Doom and the rest is history. I believe the DO is just not finding the DF channelers in this Age to be strong enough in the Power or just not up to his standards. Taim just fills certain needs of the DO.

[forzainternl]

I was wondering if the possibility has been discussed that Taim might have been set up/ been under compulsion when he "ordered" the attack on Rand (maybe by Osan'gar pretending to be Dashiva). And if he were a drakfriend isn`t this going against the DO's will since Moridin said not to kill Rand?

Just some thoughts.

[thewalrus777]

I was wondering if the possibility has been discussed that Taim might have been set up/ been under compulsion when he "ordered" the attack on Rand (maybe by Osan'gar pretending to be Dashiva). And if he were a drakfriend isn`t this going against the DO's will since Moridin said not to kill Rand?

Just some thoughts.

 

It's possible for Taim to be set up by Osan'gar. But if Osan'gar compulsed Taim to get rid of Rand, that in itself is also circumventing the DO's orders.

[alexthegray]

I believe the BT will reach a bloody end or there will be something dark and sinister going on. I don't think it's coincidental that a history buff such as RJ modeled them to highly resemble the Waffen SS in terms of uniform, command structure, mannerisms and even borrowing some of the history of the Waffen SS if he did not plan something ulterior and sinister to surround them in the Last Battle.

[lordofsoup]

i dont think that Osangar would have the guts to directly disobey the DO, he wants to live forever, and he was already killed once, and he doesnt have another chance

[Sharaman]

I was wondering if the possibility has been discussed that Taim might have been set up/ been under compulsion when he "ordered" the attack on Rand (maybe by Osan'gar pretending to be Dashiva). And if he were a drakfriend isn`t this going against the DO's will since Moridin said not to kill Rand?

Just some thoughts.

 

It's possible for Taim to be set up by Osan'gar. But if Osan'gar compulsed Taim to get rid of Rand, that in itself is also circumventing the DO's orders.

 

Taim never shows the slightest signs of being under compulsion. He's not muzzy in his thoughts or actions, and it's possible, even likely, that he's an independent agent. Osan'gar didn't seem to have much influence on Taim if we see the reactions in CoS when Rand picks him.

 

As far as we can figure out, the Salidar contingent got to the BT first and then Pevara & co. Taim seemed to be stopping the Ashaman he thumped from letting slip that the Rebel AS were already there.

 

Again, that conversation implies that the Rebels are not dead since it seemed like the Ashaman (Misharile?) is about to object saying that AS have already bonded Ashaman warders.

 

Has anyone noted that the BT sigils (hand with lightning bolts) were the same in Tear (on the carriage of High Lord Bel'al) and on Sammy's chair in TaR and also very similar to one of the Trolloc bands? Seems to be an icon common to GLoD's followers.

 

[thewalrus777]

Interesting take on the Ashaman badges. Very astute Sharaman. Those symbols were seen in the books in regards to various Chosen. And Taim picked out the symbol...you may be on to something.

[Tensai0211]

I still love the idea that Taim killed Asmodean.

[Sharaman]

There's a 250 page thread for Asmo sleuths where random hordes have been arguing about it forever.

I'd love a PoV from Taim that establishes his innocence in this matter but I suspect that one way or another, Asmo is just a random footnote in the story now.

 

[Bastor]

There's a 250 page thread for Asmo sleuths where random hordes have been arguing about it forever.

I'd love a PoV from Taim that establishes his innocence in this matter but I suspect that one way or another, Asmo is just a random footnote in the story now.

 

Sadly I have to completely agree with you. :/.... I was hoping for that Taim PoV in TGS....oh well...

[Sharaman]

I was just re-reading bits of the books.

One of Alvi's PoVs when Toveine and co. are being told to raid the BT says that she will make sure that no BA goes on that raid because it's too dangerous. This means the first lot of 50 sisters bonded by Logain's team are all good girls.

 

The Salidar Rebel Embassy we don't know about - though Egwene doesn't seem to reference the names to Verin's list, She's irritated because four of them have sworn personal fealty to her. Faolian and Theodrin are probably clean because the BA only approaches sisters to become members and they were Accepted raised by Egwene. We don't know if the others (Myrelle, Nisao) are BA.

 

Pevara's lot may have BA also though Pevara herself and Javindhra aren't on Verin's list.

 

Maybe important at some stage that Logain's lot are all clean.

 

[Crael123]

I was wondering if the possibility has been discussed that Taim might have been set up/ been under compulsion when he "ordered" the attack on Rand (maybe by Osan'gar pretending to be Dashiva). And if he were a drakfriend isn`t this going against the DO's will since Moridin said not to kill Rand?

Just some thoughts.

 

It's possible for Taim to be set up by Osan'gar. But if Osan'gar compulsed Taim to get rid of Rand, that in itself is also circumventing the DO's orders.

 

Taim never shows the slightest signs of being under compulsion. He's not muzzy in his thoughts or actions, and it's possible, even likely, that he's an independent agent. Osan'gar didn't seem to have much influence on Taim if we see the reactions in CoS when Rand picks him.

 

As far as we can figure out, the Salidar contingent got to the BT first and then Pevara & co. Taim seemed to be stopping the Ashaman he thumped from letting slip that the Rebel AS were already there.

 

 

Again, that conversation implies that the Rebels are not dead since it seemed like the Ashaman (Misharile?) is about to object saying that AS have already bonded Ashaman warders.

 

Has anyone noted that the BT sigils (hand with lightning bolts) were the same in Tear (on the carriage of High Lord Bel'al) and on Sammy's chair in TaR and also very similar to one of the Trolloc bands? Seems to be an icon common to GLoD's followers.

 

 

 

how can we be sure he hasnt shown any signs, we havent had a Taim PoV

[lordofsoup]

i dont think Pevara would let any BA on the trip.  Because she was the second sister involved with finding BA, she would have interrogated all of the potential candidates before she took them with her. 

 

I dident know that who are the 2 BA who swore fealty to Egwene?

[Sharaman]

No, we don't know that they are BA - in fact, their names are not on Verin's list so they probably aren't . But we don't know that they aren't BA either -Myrelle (the one who got Lan's bond) and Nisao had to swear fealty to her because she found out about Lan.

The other two Theodrin, Faolian, were Accepted and Egwene raised them very recently and a lot of AS don't accept them yet - they haven't sworn on the Rod. The BA doesn't recruit except from full sisters. So the chances are very high, they're clean.

 

About Taim, he's given decisive orders always, and he's never shown signs of being compelled, no uncertainty, forgetfulness, etc.

No, we can't be sure but his actions and behaviour doesn't show signs of compulsion.

 

[Crael123]

i didn't think Perava knew the identities of all of the BA members?  

[Crael123]

And also we didn't really see a whole lot of Taim after the Carhien fiasco. so he may been compelled to order it, i wouldn't rule this out completely.

[metaphor]

Taim said they could bond any asha'man the wanted and it seems he would let them do it because it would increase chaos. SO why would he change his mind and block them there?

I think there is something more than that going on.

[BladeDancer]

It is in intriguing mystery. The Black Tower is one of the most powerful groups in the world. This is why Taim or another Forsaken must be influencing things and trying to infiltrate and subvert it - the Forsaken have previously been placed in all the most powerful organisations - The White Tower, The Rebel Tower, Seanchan, Andor, Tear, Illian.

 

The title of the next book in WOT is called the Towers of Midnight. This is an indicator that the Black Tower will feature heavily (as will the Tower of Ghenji and Tuon allying with Rand).

 

I am excited to see what has been happening at the Black Tower. Really we know very little except small glimpses. Rand really needs to get this Black Tower united and under his control. Egwene has united the White Tower now and Rand needs to do so too. Then they can get round to making massive linked circles and causing some damage to those pesky Shadowspawn.

[SimpleJo]

Personally I hope that the main thing Cadsune is to teach Rand and the Ashaman is to be something more than living weapons.  Basically to be human to teach them to add soul and intelligence to their knowledge of the OP.  If it is done right the Ashaman would show the Aes Sedai it is possible to be powerful without the arrogance and the manipulation that is ingrained to the core at the White Tower.  (Very apt name for it when you think about it.  Aes Sedai remind me most of being exactly like a typical college professor.  Full of knowledge yet no bigger kind of fool could be found if a person tried).

[WolfTwins]

:-[ I'll quote myself:

  About Taim it's said that he's not displaying signs of male channelers crazyness. I have the sensation that the crazyness isn't described enough and Taim have some sort of 'Napoleon complex'.

 

  What are the symptoms of channeler crazyness if Taim is perceived as sane?

  It's only a personal sensation, because of the events at the Dumai's Wells, I rather see Taim insane than at the DO side.

  I hope he's one of the people who don't know for what or for whom they're fighting, as Demandred has suggested, IIRC.

 

Edit:

Sharaman:

Perrin can smell insanity - emotions flicker and change amazingly rapidly.

He sees that with Rand (CoS) and also with Massema (CoT/ KoD).

Doesn't see it with Taim (CoS).

  So Taim is pretty sane, still he could be a bad ambitious man and not a DF. Hope dies last!