A First Time Reader's Journey.

[HighLordXanthus]

Exaggerated? Yes and No.  Lots of interesting stuff happens, but the plot doesnt seem to move very far forward for all of it.

[TruorTupnm]

I finished the third book and will have to wait for a bit until more come to my library.  In the meantime, I shall re-read these three and probably come up with some crazy ideas.  Yay for debates showing up!  I am a large fan of them, but I won't be calling people crazy if they disagree with me, at least not until I've read all of the bookses.  ::)

 

To your responses:  Towards Halfmen and the Gray ones:  Got it.  I didn't read that it was just a myth that that they could become invisible by turning sideways.  Whoops.  But then, the Gray dudes are still mostly invisible.  It's just a different kind of invisibility.  What was that about not typing why Halfmen are rare?  I read that they are just a strain of Trolloc in which the human half is especially dominant, but I figure that they should be more than just that, since they're creepily magical, and Trollocs are (as far as I know) just humans mixed with animals via evil magic.  They aren't just random as well as mutant Trollocs?  So, they must be intentionally baked with eleven evil herbs and spices.

 

This Shai'tan dude is not a god?  Huh.  Well, I suppose that he could merely be some godling, godlet, or superly powerful thing from a time before mortals.  Of course, he could just be some especially powerful human who has nurtured plenty of scary stories about himself.  I'll find out.

 

Towards the terrifying Lanfear lady ---> Ack!  Shapeshifting?  Pure evil.  I do not know many honest shapeshifters.  If she is in love with Rand, she has no taste and slash or she is just crazy.  She barely knows the guy!  Sure, he is apparently a reincarnation of a dude that she knew, but is she so crazy that she is unaware that new lives make different people?  Of course, I know little of reincarnations in the The Wheel Of Time universe.  Mayhaps one way in which his craziness will manifest is becoming just like past lives, so she's mostly leaving him alone and waiting for that to happen.  Sounds more sad than evil, to myself.  

 

Towards Forsaken in general ---> They were stuck in that prison with the main evil dude for quite a while, so it would make sense for most of them should be crazy, in some way.  At least some of these Forsaken dudes can mess around in dreams.  It seems to be one of Lanfear's specialties, but others were affecting entire cities merely by not guarding themselves.  All should be able to do plenty of scary stuff while actually focusing.  

 

Towards Mat's luck, I have not noticed any evidence that supports the idea that he gets it merely due to being a ta'veren dude, although, sure, I agree that it works as an explanation.  For the dagger being the cause, I mostly typed it because it was the only explanation ventured in the books so far, that I could see.  He wasn't crazily lucky before it, so it must at the least have been a contributing factor.  Of course, being a ta'veren does not mean affecting things like crazy at all times.  His luck kicked in when it was interesting for the evil Creator pulling the strings.  ::)

 

Towards Aes Sedai ---> Argh.  When are they going to tell me what each of those colors are for?  I only know white, brown, blue, green, red, and black.  What would yellow and gray mean?  We've got philosophers, librarians, adventurers, warriors, hunters, and evil-oriented ones.  What would be useful for terrifying magic-users, that isn't already taken?  Although they all seem plenty tricksy, mayhaps one or the other is the one that deserves the reputation of messing with people?  They could be the illusion specialists?  One could be the arts as well as crafts group.  oh well.  I'll find out eventually.  

 

I am not a large fan of her type of character, but Moiraine is deserving of respect.  I feel sorry for the lady, dealing with so many that are so beneath her.  Her temper is getting a lot shorter than it was in the first book.  Tragic, that Verin doesn't have as large a role as I'd hoped.  Brutally objective knowledge seekers are awesome.  I am hoping that Elaida doesn't turn out to be much of an adversary.  I'd like to see one of those Red ladies turn out to not be so evil, just wanting to do her job.  

 

Towards Ogier being like Ents, it looks as if that was explained fairly well.  I was mostly typing that they were similar personality-wise.  I'd agree that the Green Man looked more like an Ent, although, I'd like to know what was under all of the plants (was he just some pathetic human with some forgotten power from some other Age, or was he just more plants and something unique?), but personality-wise, I'd say that the Ogier were more like Ents than he was.  But then, I didn't get to know the guy very well.

 

Also, Darkhounds are crazy terrifying.  Are they why some figure wolves to be under Shai'tan's thumb, or was that just people sensibly hating wolves?  What do you do versus those things?  You can run or hide from anything else.  They only showed up that one time, and I read that, once they're after you, you will be caught, no matter what.  A superly powerful magic made them incapable of falling into traps or losing the scent or somesuch.  Only brute force can save you from canines.  At least, as far as I can tell.  Hopefully, they are very rare? *hides*

 

Anyways, some other stuff:  These Aiel are not as obnoxious as I thought they'd be.  Phew.  

 

Boo for the ladies being insanely rude to Mat, a guy who two of them have known for a while, who should know how reluctant he'd be to be a hero.  Yay for him taking things in stride, allowing the book to end with him planning on getting out of there.  ::) I'm rooting for him getting out of there, but I am certain that it won't happen.  

 

With Perrin always wondering if that Faile lady is the one that Min told him to run away from, I have to wonder, as well.  That Lanfear lady is all over the place, in addition to being a shapeshifter.  I am hoping that she isn't evil, since I type Yay for a touch of light-heartedness.  

 

Towards Round Three of Rand Versus Shai'tan ---> Dang.  I was getting excited when the evil dude showed up and knocked out Moiraine, then announced that he would take Rand's soul, but he disgraced himself like crazy, due to running away for quite a while.  You're supposed to be the big bad as well as main antagonist here, and you didn't even stop running in a place that would, at the least, take you down with him?  Mayhaps, while being stuck in that prison, the Forsaken grew more powerful, and he lost power?  It was hypothesized that the human he was possessing was the most powerful of the Forsaken, but I am hoping that that is incorrect.  Mayhaps he's just been so pathetic because he's been possessing people, but they're self-preservation instinct kicks in too much?

[HighLordXanthus]

Shaitan is the dark one,and the equal and opposite of the creator.  Ba'alzamon, (sp?) got ganked by rand at the end of book 3 and left a corpse.  What does that tell you.  Moiraine mentions this either at the end of book 3 or the Very beginning of book 4, so if it is a spoiler, sorry but you would learn very soon either way.  Remember the paper the Verin mentions when giving Egwene the black ajah papers and the stone ring ter'angreal.  It talked about this this thing.

 

Forsaken, were trapped in the bore with the dark one, mostly in a dreamless sleep.  All but Ishamael were completely trapped, and . . . again check the paper Verin had.  Aginor and Balthamel were trapped near the edge, and thus felt the turning of the wheel.

[Mr Ares]

Mat met Thom, and they are on a boat and being lucky, which is apparently an awesome (so far?) side effect of being messed with by that dagger.

You're right! It is due to the dagger.

No, it really isn't.

Yes, it really is. All the evidence supports the dagger. None supports ta'veren.

 

I read that they are just a strain of Trolloc in which the human half is especially dominant, but I figure that they should be more than just that, since they're creepily magical, and Trollocs are (as far as I know) just humans mixed with animals via evil magic. They aren't just random as well as mutant Trollocs? So, they must be intentionally baked with eleven evil herbs and spices

No, Fades are just throwbacks to the human stock in Trollocs. They weren't even created intentionally.

 

This Shai'tan dude is not a god?

Shai'tan is a god. Ba'alzamon isn't. Ba'alzamon is Ishamael, who is human, one of the Chosen. This was explained at the end of TDR. You've not met Shai'tan yet.

 

Towards the terrifying Lanfear lady ---> Ack! Shapeshifting?

No. Lanfear cannot shapeshift. She can use Illusion.

 

If she is in love with Rand, she has no taste and slash or she is just crazy. She barely knows the guy!

She is in love with Lews Therin. Well, whatever passes for love in crazy stalkers. But he was the object of her obsessions.

 

Towards Mat's luck, I have not noticed any evidence that supports the idea that he gets it merely due to being a ta'veren dude

That's because there isn't any.

 

When are they going to tell me what each of those colors are for? I only know white, brown, blue, green, red, and black.  What would yellow and gray mean?

Whites are philosophers/logicians, browns seek out knowledge, blues have causes, greens are soldiers, reds hunt out male channelers, yellows are Healers, grays are mediators, blacks are evil.

[Emez Vatsetek]

Exaggerated? Yes and No.  Lots of interesting stuff happens, but the plot doesnt seem to move very far forward for all of it.

 

Ah, well that's all right, there's still a lot of side stories and character development left to advance.

 

So was it Ba'alzamon who was infiltrating the three ta'verens dreams in the first few books? I had thought that was actually the Dark One.

 

Truor: Interesting to see your musings. There are a few of your questions that were still left unanswered, but like you said, you will find out a lot later on, especially about their ways of casting magic to deal with enemies and to make illusions/spells for defense. Although Aes Sedai don't always go into specialties in one power or another. I know you did say you weren't as much a fan of magic as other things. That is really the way of dealing with most everything in WoT, though, at least when there are channelers present.

 

Anyways I look forward to hearing from you later when you read the rest of the series; I guess you will not pass me as I thought if you're rereading the first three already.

 

I was wondering, since you said in the OP you liked sci fi, what some of your favorite book series are, sci fi and/or fantasy?

 

I'm thinking of reading Dune series, and I've always been interested in Neuromancer since the Matrix was based on it, and there was some sort of epic space 'opera' I saw in a store that looked interesting. Otherwise I do mostly prefer fantasy and there's a ton of that I'm hoping to read/reread through.

 

And I really agree that Nynaeve and Elayne were way unappreciative of Mat saving them, acting as if they were just fine by themselves. They should have at least thanked him. That was actually one of the lamest part in the whole series. Then again, I do have a sister, so I know how girls can be.

 

Anyways, later.

[Elend]

The reason the Halfmen are so rare is because no one knows what they are, even their Forsaken creator. Wasn't sure when this was pretty explicitly introduced. Hopefully more on the subject will be shed in later installments but at the moment not a whole lot is known of them beyond being a throwback to a more humanistic version of Trolloc.

 

A bit more explanation of the Green Man and what he was will be forthcoming in The Shadow Rising I believe.

[kennedy798]

I must say I'm loving reading about your theories and your understandings so far. I'm currently re reading and I just started book 1 and your theories etc. about it are good to read. I also enjoy the way you seemed to start out having fun and not knowing what people were called and what societies were called, but now you are getting sucked into it.

 

So far what would your thoughts be on the series?

 

(You seem to be a Tolkien fan btw. Which of his books was your favorite?)

[Agitel]

Yeah, the ajahs.

 

Blue - seek to right wrongs in the world

White - philosophers and deal heavily with logic

Gray - focus on the laws of nations, are often used as mediators in conflicts

Green - the battle ajah, prepare for Tar'mon Gaidon and played a big role in the Trolloc Wars

Yellow - dedicated to the Talent of healing

Brown - scholars, very interested in knowledge

Red - dedicated to hunting down and ferreting out male channelers and gentling them before they go mad

[chris777]

This is fun to read someone elses thoughts. I have another similiar post, also maybe i should make a new thread since i JUST started book 6, Lord of Chaos.  So far so good.  I honestly didn't like Fires of Heaven very much...others did.  I just find Nyneave soo annoying i wanna break her face =)  And Jordan's thoughts of how women perceive men, are getting redundant.  Putting that aside this is a great series.  And let me just say that your Theorys have been great, most of them pretty damn close to truthful for what i've seen so far.

 

You said you don't mind tiny spoilers if your theorys are close...

Mayhaps one way in which his craziness will manifest is becoming just like past lives, so she's mostly leaving him alone and waiting for that to happen.  Sounds more sad than evil, to myself.  

I can't spoil that much, as I am just on book 6...but so far you seem pretty dead on.  It's not exactly just like past lives...there's more to it..you will see.  And I will see too i guess? =)  Not really a spoiler as very soon you find out exactly what I just said.

 

Boo for the ladies being insanely rude to Mat, a guy who two of them have known for a while, who should know how reluctant he'd be to be a hero.

Boo for the ladies ALWAYS being mean.  One thing that bugs me in this book, women think they own men, everyone trying to manipulate everyone else.

 

Mayhaps, while being stuck in that prison, the Forsaken grew more powerful, and he lost power?  It was hypothesized that the human he was possessing was the most powerful of the Forsaken, but I am hoping that that is incorrect.  Mayhaps he's just been so pathetic because he's been possessing people, but they're self-preservation instinct kicks in too much?

I think you may have mis-understood what Moraine said there.  As someone already pointed out, she said It's not the DarkOne, he would not leave a Human corpse behind.  I won't say more, as I don't remember if they then said who they assumed it to be...but you will find out VERY soon.  That whole thing was very confusing to me, Rand was so weak and confused, and could already battle 1v1 THE DARKONE? A GOD?

 

Towards Mat's luck, I have not noticed any evidence that supports the idea that he gets it merely due to being a ta'veren dude, although, sure, I agree that it works as an explanation.  For the dagger being the cause, I mostly typed it because it was the only explanation ventured in the books so far, that I could see.  He wasn't crazily lucky before it, so it must at the least have been a contributing factor.  Of course, being a ta'veren does not mean affecting things like crazy at all times.  His luck kicked in when it was interesting for the evil Creator pulling the strings.  

Well he was ta'veren before he got that dagger...and he was not lucky until he got rid of the dagger.  He did not notice his luck until he was compeltely rid of the dagger.  I think the only explination is the same as Perrin's "Gift".  He did not know he had that gift until it manifested once, and since then he's honed it, and it's now become a part of him.  Because Perrin just recently was able to smell and hear really well...there was no marked event besides meeting w/Elys that lead to that.  So, IMO, the only explination up to this point is that he was basically born this way, and it has developed now(both perrin and mat).  Being ta'veren, and that much power swirling w/the dagger, and to get rid of the dagger, may have made the inherent jump that now causes his crazy luck.  Or he may have just realized how to 'control'.

Peronsally I would like to see(but i will not search because of spoilers) someone create a TIMELINE for Mat.  If someone knows it, please post up to the point ive read(middle of LOC) in MY thread " Reading LOC (for the first time)".  =)

[TruorTupnm]

Towards Ba'alzamon ---> Got it.  He was just some pathetic human that messed with people in their dreams, ran from any opposition, and would have been killed by the real Dark Dude for his temerity, if he wasn't too pathetic to matter.  I read that snip of a page that Verin had on him, and they made the hypothesis that Ba'alzamon was the guy that Rand murdered.  Everyone here seems to take as a fact, but I was just waiting for some actual confirmation to show up, since they were clear that they weren't sure about it.  I'm about halfway through the fourth book, now, and I haven't seen any confirmations, so I guess that we are to assume that their hypothesis was correct.  ::)

 

Towards what science fiction and fantasy I read ---> Star Wars and Tolkien (since it was asked, I'd go for The Lord Of The Rings as my favorite, just because Gollum is my favorite Tolkien character, but I've read all but a few of the Histories Of Middle-Earth that I can't find) are my specialties, but I'll read pretty much anything that anybody tosses at me.  I was actually warned away from the Dune series.  People told me that it was really boring, with too much political backstabbing and such, but I call those people crazy.  I recommend the Dune series all over the place.  There are plenty of awesome ideas in there, although I haven't read the books written by the original author's child and Kevin J. Anderson, who is not my favorite Star Wars author.  ::)

 

I didn't get much of a picture in my brain when these Nym things were mentioned, but I would guess that they are what the Green Man is, since I was told that I'd find out more about him in this fourth book.

 

Thoughts so far on this The Wheel Of Time series ---> I prefer to toss out all of the harsh judgments at the end.  I am having all kinds of fun, though.  Epicness and a decent amount of variety.  Although, as has been mentioned ---> Okay.  I get it.  Men and women are different.  Authors repeat themselves to drive home points, sometimes.  Got it.  He has done it enough times, now.  ::)

 

Towards Mat's luck being a unique ability along the same lines as Perrin's wolfiness ---> Interesting, but since the books haven't hinted that it could be the reason, the dagger still seems the most likely explanation, since it was hinted at.  Of course, I am open-minded.  Mayhaps while they were healing him of the evil dagger's influence, they increased the strength of his luck up to full blast and forgot to turn it off.  They always tap into a person's luck to help out with healing and such, but they usually remember to put things back to normal.  ::) See?  That theory has as much evidence supporting it as anything not related to the dagger.  Unless, of course, the books deny the existence of luck gauges.  :o  ::)

 

For this The Shadow Rising book, so far ---> Now, I am really starting to get into the series.  The Aiel are interesting, the three ta'veren all have decently-sized roles, at least so far, and there are plenty of mysteries, bad guys, and prophecies cropping up.  I am at the point where Perrin's group is about to head back to Two Rivers.  He had a creepy wolf dream.  There's some guy called Slayer that you need to look out for.  There was talk of snakes and foxes, at the same time, which is possibly connected to the creepy dudes that answer questions and grant wishes. 

 

Towards dreams ---> I'm still not clear on how exactly that one ter'angreal thingy helps Egwene out.  I haven't seen much of a difference when she doesn't use it.  But oh well.  I would assume that the others like it that the Black Ajah stole help them out with doing much at all in that dimension, while she is one of the few that are naturally gifted in that area.  But then, the lady who used that ter'angreal before her was the last Aes Sedai Dreamer, I think that I read, so mayhaps it at least helps her out with having more control.  What's so useful about messing about in that other dimension, truly?  Sure, I can see that it can be all kinds of useful, but I am wondering what terrifying tricks these Black ladies have planned, since they stole one of those trinkets for each of them to use.

 

Towards Galad ---> He is getting interested in Whitecloak craziness.  Before this and to a lesser degree after that, I was wondering if there was something magically messed up about him, since he is always referred to as creepy, due to always doing what is correct.  I wondered if he had been placed under some kind of tragic as well as creepy magical compulsion to always follow some particular brand of morality, but it is looking as if he just found this eccentricity in a particularly crazy portion of thin air. 

 

Am I forgetting something? 

[Agitel]

Ba'alzamon  was Ishamael, who was equal to Lews Therin in the One Power, and was the one Forsaken who wasn't entirely bound in the seal on the Dark One's prison. The first time Rand confronted him, Rand had just gotten a flood of saidin from the Eye of the World, a well of pure, untainted saidin, and was kind of riding high on that. He wasn't pathetic, just likely half mad and underestimating Rand, as he knew Rand had no training and never really touched the Source. Rand also has other advantages that the typical channeler doesn't have, some of which will become clear later.

 

Robert Jordan's specifically commented on ta'veren. They aren't born that way (can you imagine a child ta'veren as strong as Rand wandering about?), the Wheel makes ta'veren as it needs, and Rand, Mat, and Perrin all sort of grew into it.  The Green Man is a Nym, in fact, that Nym in the flashback was the Green Man (he was called to the Aes Sedai for the purpose of guarding the Eye of the World). As for Galad, nothing like that's been revealed about him at all, and I doubt it. He just has a certain sense of morality.

 

As for the ter'angreal of Egwene's, she's not just a dreamer, she's a dreamwalker, but she's sort of like someone who can channel who hasn't been taught. She can't really control entering tel'aran'rhiod. The ring let's her enter when she wants. As for its uses, you've already seen the Forsaken using it a number of times, as well as the Black sisters (they did much of their meetings in tel'aran'rhiod, distance doesn't matter there), though it wasn't referenced as such for the Forsaken. Perrin's also using it (the wolfdreams). You'll see further uses as the series progresses.

 

The Shadow Rising is one of the best in the series, I'm glad to hear you're enjoying it.

[Mr Ares]

Well he was ta'veren before he got that dagger...and he was not lucky until he got rid of the dagger. He did not notice his luck until he was compeltely rid of the dagger.

That's not quite true. He dates the first increase in his luck to after SL (we see him be lucky in Shienar, and he's successful gambling against Hurin on the road to TV), and the second increase, the one that gives him super luck, as opposed to just very good luck, happens after the Healing.

 

Towards Ba'alzamon ---> Got it. He was just some pathetic human that messed with people in their dreams, ran from any opposition, and would have been killed by the real Dark Dude for his temerity, if he wasn't too pathetic to matter.

No. Ishamael was the strongest of the Chosen, a nihilist and true believer in Shai'tan's cause. He serves not for want of eternal life or power, but simply to see the world burn. He tried to kill Rand, but Rand got Callandor and was too strong for him. So while he ran, he also continued leaving traps to kill Rand.

 

Mayhaps while they were healing him of the evil dagger's influence, they increased the strength of his luck up to full blast and forgot to turn it off.

If they did, picking up the dagger in the first place turned his luck on.

[TruorTupnm]

Towards Ba'alzamon slash Ishamael ---> If that guy is the pinnacle of scariness for these Forsaken dudes, it sounds as if they'll just be minor enemies to deal with while we're waiting for the final boss.  ::) Of course, they might have all kinds of crazy specialties that can make them really annoying.  If that guy was the most powerful and most intimidating, apparently experience is useless versus blindly lashing out (of course, Rand's superly-powered ta'verenness helps), and most magical duels are won by the guy who gets the first shot in, since everyone seems to be very delicate (Although, all of the traps that Ishamael had while pathetically running away were easily countered.  Mayhaps Ishamael is just horrible at hiding traps and coming up with counterspells of his own?).  Mayhaps more information will be given on this Ishamael guy, who was supposed to be really scary.  At least Shai'tan still has the potential to be all kinds of actually threatening.  ::)

 

Towards dreaminess ---> Got it.  The ter'angreal that the Black ladies stole would have been crazy useful, if not for Egwene having one, too.  But weren't the uses of most of the ter'angreal that they stole supposed to be unknown?  How long have those people had the things as well as the opportunity to test them, they were never able to figure them out, but these Black ladies take them, and they are all conveniently dream-oriented?  Well, how long have these Black ladies been infesting Tar Valon?  Mayhaps they've had researchers hiding the uses of the things for a while.  It merely seems weird, to myself.

 

Towards that crazy as well as merely jesting theory on how Mat obtained Super Luck ---> I don't see why picking up the dagger was what turned his Super Luck on, in the first place.  He didn't seem to be very lucky while holding it.  ::) Anyways, I was typing that the healing may have caused the luck increase, not the sudden banishment of the dagger's evil.  Sure, he was only healed because of the dagger, but I'd say that the Aes Sedai messing with his is as plausible as the dagger leaving something good behind, unless I see evidence to the not that.  Is Mat's case the only evidence to suggest that being cursed by stuff from Shadar Logoth also gives you an awesome amount of luck?  

 

Oh.  Anyways, I'll go read some more of that book, now.

[Agitel]

As was said, the first time Rand comfronted Ishamael he was riding high off of the saidin from the Eye of the World. During his third confrontation Rand held a very powerful sa'angreal that made him ridiculously more powerful than Ishamael.

[The Fisher King]

Mr Ares - Nice DK Ref. :)

 

 

Fish

 

 

P.S. - Oh, you did forget though, that later in the series he does state that he actually had ALWAYS had his luck.

 

 

[Mr Ares]

As was said, the first time Rand comfronted Ishamael he was riding high off of the saidin from the Eye of the World. During his third confrontation Rand held a very powerful sa'angreal that made him ridiculously more powerful than Ishamael.

And the second time he had to leave himself wide open in order to win.

 

Mr Ares - Nice DK Ref. :)

Glad someone spotted it.

P.S. - Oh, you did forget though, that later in the series he does state that he actually had ALWAYS had his luck.

I forgot nothing. Except where I put my keys....Oh, there they are. He also says that his luck increased after SL, and that he had never before had luck like he did when he escaped TV, winning every toss. He was always luckiy, then he got luckier, then he got luckier again.

 

He didn't seem to be very lucky while holding it.  ::)

He seemed lucky enough to me. He was winning in Shienar, and Hurin would only gamble against him for coppers after a while, then not for money at all, while on the road to TV.

Anyways, I was typing that the healing may have caused the luck increase, not the sudden banishment of the dagger's evil.

But his luck first increased before he was Healed. We see evidence in TGH and TDR.

Is Mat's case the only evidence to suggest that being cursed by stuff from Shadar Logoth also gives you an awesome amount of luck?

There's no telling if it will always give the same powers. Fain has several powers, for example, and he's the only other person with prolonged contact. If you're interested, there was a thread on the source of mat's luck a few months back. Reached over 40 pages. Read that, and you won't be interested any more.

[The Fisher King]

Mr Ares:

 

1 How could someone fail to notice a reference to The Awesomeness that is Awesome??? (TDK) ... Take The Godfather, Heat, and The Batman Legacy, throw in Michael Caine, Morgan Freeman, Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Aaron Eckhart, a few others, and amazing writing, erformances, cintementography and directing and you get... = Masterpiece.

 

2 Regarding Mat's Luck...Technically you are right.

 

I promise though, he does in one book (I apologize for not remembering which) mention that he HAD alwaaaays had abnormal levels of Luck - even when younger and growing up in Emonds Field. ... Now, yes, of course his luck increased after The Dagger and all that. And yeah, I remember that night he was FREAKED by the roll he got on gambling that first time.

 

Now, I personally don't believe that his luck is part of his Ta'vereness...but, to be fair, I see no reason to completely discount it either.

 

 

Fish

[Mr Ares]

1 How could someone fail to notice a reference to The Awesomeness that is Awesome??? (TDK)

People rarely make mention of my references.

 

Now, I personally don't believe that his luck is part of his Ta'vereness.

Neither does Mat. He considers the two separate. You don't have to completely discount it, but weight of evidence leans towards them being different.

[Emez Vatsetek]

 

Towards what science fiction and fantasy I read ---> Star Wars and Tolkien (since it was asked, I'd go for The Lord Of The Rings as my favorite, just because Gollum is my favorite Tolkien character, but I've read all but a few of the Histories Of Middle-Earth that I can't find) are my specialties, but I'll read pretty much anything that anybody tosses at me.  I was actually warned away from the Dune series.  People told me that it was really boring, with too much political backstabbing and such, but I call those people crazy.  I recommend the Dune series all over the place.  There are plenty of awesome ideas in there, although I haven't read the books written by the original author's child and Kevin J. Anderson, who is not my favorite Star Wars author.  ::)

Ah, cool. I'm planning on rereading LotR since I've only read it once, and the Silmarillion looks interesting as well.

 

Anyways, Star Wars is sweet. I'm a big fan of the movies. I used to read some of the extended universe novels, but it's been years; I did enjoy the Young Jedi Knights series by Kevin J. Anderson, so he's not all that bad (but that was when I was a kid, though). I really enjoyed (I'm looking at my books now) Shadows of the Empire and The Courtship of Princess Leia.

 

I hope they put out sequel movies to the original trilogy (movies 7-9). Just for the heck of it; and I enjoyed the prequels also, even though some people don't, I still think there's even more movies that can be made about the Star Wars universe. Although obviously they can't really bring back the whole original cast if the sequel movies do have some of the same characters. Anyway I'm rambling... May the Force be with you. :)

Thoughts so far on this The Wheel Of Time series ---> I prefer to toss out all of the harsh judgments at the end.  I am having all kinds of fun, though.  Epicness and a decent amount of variety.  Although, as has been mentioned ---> Okay.  I get it.  Men and women are different.  Authors repeat themselves to drive home points, sometimes.  Got it.  He has done it enough times, now.  ::)

 

Yeah, it's definitely a fun series. I'm glad I decided to pick it up again (I read only the first 4 books years ago). I'm not sure what specifically you're talking about, but he does repeat some information each book that you're bound to already know. I like his style though.

 

 

I missed the Dark Knight reference...I'm going, huh?

[chris777]

Did they tell of Rand's birth?  Mother and Father yet?  Something I didn't actually catch until NOW...very interesting.  Pay attention to the story of his Mother...and something that was said about Rand way back in book1?  Or book2?

 

An awesome reference for a person's history up until a certain book....

http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~karlh/wot.html

[chris777]

Thoughts so far on this The Wheel Of Time series ---> I prefer to toss out all of the harsh judgments at the end.  I am having all kinds of fun, though.  Epicness and a decent amount of variety.  Although, as has been mentioned ---> Okay.  I get it.  Men and women are different.  Authors repeat themselves to drive home points, sometimes.  Got it.  He has done it enough times, now.  ::)

 

Yeah, it's definitely a fun series. I'm glad I decided to pick it up again (I read only the first 4 books years ago). I'm not sure what specifically you're talking about, but he does repeat some information each book that you're bound to already know. I like his style though.

 

You don't notice how many times, while in Nynaeve or Elayne or ANY woman's POV, they mentioned how men are pig headed, easy to manipulate/control?  A basic generalization that Women have toward men(or RJ thinks women have toward men), exaggerated and repeated over and over.

 

Towards Ba'alzamon slash Ishamael ---> If that guy is the pinnacle of scariness for these Forsaken dudes, it sounds as if they'll just be minor enemies to deal with while we're waiting for the final boss.   Of course, they might have all kinds of crazy specialties that can make them really annoying.  If that guy was the most powerful and most intimidating, apparently experience is useless versus blindly lashing out (of course, Rand's superly-powered ta'verenness helps), and most magical duels are won by the guy who gets the first shot in, since everyone seems to be very delicate (Although, all of the traps that Ishamael had while pathetically running away were easily countered.  Mayhaps Ishamael is just horrible at hiding traps and coming up with counterspells of his own?).  Mayhaps more information will be given on this Ishamael guy, who was supposed to be really scary.  At least Shai'tan still has the potential to be all kinds of actually threatening.  

I thought the same thing.  But I think Ishamael will be back very soon..how i dunno...but i don't think they can kill the strongest Forsaken so soon, and leave him dead. =/  Hope not.

[Emez Vatsetek]

 

You don't notice how many times, while in Nynaeve or Elayne or ANY woman's POV, they mentioned how men are pig headed, easy to manipulate/control?  A basic generalization that Women have toward men(or RJ thinks women have toward men), exaggerated and repeated over and over.

 

 

Oh, that. Yeah. Well, sort of. Egwene's mental berating of Rand got kind of old before she for some reason randomly stopped loving him, and worrying about his woolhead all the time. Otherwise it's never really bothered me personally. Besides, it is a female-dominated world what with Aes Sedai being the most powerful and plentiful magic users. And other Queens are also powerful in WoT. It's not so unrealistic, actually. My Grandpa IRL basically says it's easier to do what my Grandma tells him to, rather than put up a fight. It's true. Some women are bossy. Anyways, in WoT there are a few exceptions that bring balance to the gender roles. Some are more deferential or even ultimately submissive towards the men, and some name calling, rather than infuriating, is seen as endearing, depending on the character. Other women become humble or apologetic in certain situations. Most of the ta'veren are put in positions over authority over Aes Sedai and other women at some point. So while it's certainly something to remark upon, I don't think this is anything so eccentric about RJ as opposed to just his style, like I was saying, and there aren't really that many black and white characters; there are shades of gray, and even some Red sisters (archetypal man-haters) have a soft spot towards men. So I see it in shades of gray.

[TruorTupnm]

Towards Mat's luck ---> I shall most probably read all kinds of threads about it, once I am done with all of the bookses.  I would not be surprised if evidence pops up for other options.  Nevertheless, I don't remember his luck being creepily great until after he was healed.  Okay, so he was always lucky, but I don't remember it being portrayed as anything beyond a good streak of luck, or Hurin just being horrible or something.  ::) I shall have to see if the library still has those books, so I can look it up really quick.

 

Towards ta'verenness, luck, and me continuing to make fun of the Forsaken  ::) ---> On the other paw, since Rand can easily as well as improbably beat the most powerful of these Forsaken people every two seconds, colossal amounts of luck must be the only way for that to make any sense.  Since Mat is not as important but still a ta'veren, he gets a bunch of dice-rolling luck.  Without luck being the primary reason for winning, the Forsaken types must be terribly inept to be beaten so easily, is all I'm saying.  Especially that Ishamael dude.  He was only sort of trapped and was able to do some things while everyone else was apparently frozen?  He gets all of that extra experience with messing with people and still loses pathetically.  ::) I apologize to any fans of his, of course.  Set me straight.  Maybe something that I read will eventually do so.  ::)

 

Towards Rand's parentage ---> Yes, at least some stuff was recently revealed to me about that.  I wasn't particularly interested in main character lineages and prophecies inevitably being fulfilled.  That's the big and important stuff that gets dramatic reveals and long summaries in later books.  Or at least the last one.  I might idly wonder about such things, but I am more interested in the little things.  Is there some big mystery that I should start trying to solve with what clues I have?  Always fun.

 

Towards constant skirmishes of the sexes ---> Eh.  It is a little annoying but no large deal, to myself.  As was mentioned, it's just a style point.  And while the females probably point out that men and women are different more often, the males are preoccupied with the same, ofttimes.  It's just that there are more male main characters than female, so they have more main character class concerns to worry about. 

 

Anyways, I finished the fourth book and am still waiting on more to show up at the library.  Towards what Forsaken types ---> Lanfear ---> Being crazy.  She seems pointless, to myself, at the moment.  Got it.  It's setting up that she is important.  I can't take her seriously until she starts doing something, although, yes, she does seem plenty evil and terrifying.  It was mentioned that she went to Shai'tan's place before she was Lanfear, but what occurred is a mystery.  What I am supposed to assume is what?  That she wasn't so evil, but he caught her and gave her a personality transplant, so that I can be sympathetic?  I hope not.  That totally wouldn't work.

 

That spider lady ---> My first reaction ---> Terrifying!  Messing with people's brains is the most evil and terrifying of all evil powerses!  My second reaction ---> Oo!  Her primary attribute is carefulness.  I hope that she dies last.  My third reaction, and her last appearance in this book ---> Well, it is implied that she somehow got away, but could she not also have been killed by balefire being blasted around?  Well, how did she get away?  She seemed plenty helpless.  But why would she, the superly careful one, walk right up to someone and allow herself to possibly get killed like that?  From Ishamael being so achingly pathetic and Nynaeve supposedly being superly powerful, I doubt that this spidery lady could have been so powerful that she was never in any real danger.  oh well.  I'll find out.

 

That dude who was pretending to be a gleeman (Possibly not pretending.  He might have been one before becoming a pathetic Forsaken type) ---> I didn't get to learn much about him, in this book.  Hopefully, he'll be superly awesome, give Rand all kinds of misleading instructions, escape before Rand decides to put him down due to his power returning, then sneak back up and kill him.  It probably won't happen that way.  ::) But what assurances do Rand or Lanfear have that he won't teach misleadingly?  Yay for a teacher for the male half of magic, though.  Hopefully, he won't die before he does something interesting.

 

Towards dreaminess ---> Do what?  Those heroes summoned by the Horn Of Valere are trapped in the dream world?  Quite tragic.  Not only are they forced to dance to the Creator's tune of constantly fighting and dying and repeating themselves for his rerun-obsessed tastes, they don't even get a nice afterlife or even nothingness.  They have to hide in the dream world from things that could kill them for forever.  If it wasn't for the also cruelly (in this case) Creator-given sense of self-preservation, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those heroes wanted to be killed.

[Emez Vatsetek]

I think Mat's luck, like Perrin's wolf-affinity and Rand's saidin casting, might just be part of them being ta'veren, or inherent abilities, the way the Pattern plays out in that particular Age. At least right now, that makes more sense to me than the dagger does as I've been thinking about it. I don't think RJ ever really explained it specifically.

 

I agree that the Forsaken seem to be beaten rather easily. They do have this trick of seeming to inhabit other's bodies, though. I think that might mean they could die in a body and somehow manifest later on in another body or in their true forms.

 

I was hoping when they got to explaining Rand's parentage, that one of them would still be around. That would've probably made for a rather interesting and emotional scene.

 

I think, rather than the war of the sexes or whatever that is insinuated, one of my issues I have is with the pacing. I get a bit tired of chapter after chapter of the same characters...who are not the protagonist... It might have been more interesting to intersperse the perspectives and you know, go back and forth.

 

Yeah, the heroes thing is a bit confusing...well, sort of. It would have been cool if you could like blow the horn and then they would be on the earth until they were no longer needed, like semi-permanent heroes come back from the dead, or whatever. Luckily I think - I hope - that they will be back at some other point and be more at the forefront of the action.  And they seem rather oblivious to their own selves, as far as I can tell they don't appear to be suffering, so I think they'd be more than happy to be summoned and save the world.

[Mr Ares]

I missed the Dark Knight reference...I'm going, huh?

Ishamael was the strongest of the Chosen, a nihilist and true believer in Shai'tan's cause. He serves not for want of eternal life or power, but simply to see the world burn. He tried to kill Rand, but Rand got Callandor and was too strong for him. So while he ran, he also continued leaving traps to kill Rand.

Alfred: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.