The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Aquarius]

Very interresting theory about Janduin.

 

We know for a fact that Tigraine is dead :

 

From tEotW:

". . . battles are always hot, even in the snow. Sweat heat. Blood

heat. Only death is cool. Slope of the mountain . . . only place didn't stink of death. Had to get

away from smell of it . . . sight of it . . . heard a baby cry. Their women fight alongside the men,

sometimes, but why they had let her come, I don't . . . gave birth there alone, before she died of

her wounds . . . covered the child with her cloak, but the wind . . .

[Sharaman]

Very interesting. Only thing is, this can't be the BUT because it "hasn't been going on".

Rand finds out his ancestry and moves on.

We've had no references to Aiel reappearing from the Blight, etc. 

However,

Janduin was killed by Slayer in Lord Luc form.

The Aiel witnesses said that he held back in a fight because Luc looked too much like his dead wife.

For this theory that Janduin wasn't killed, to work,

1) The Aiel witnesses would have to be wrong, whether through compulsion/ illusion, whatever/

2) Ishamel was the only Chosen who was free at the time. We do know he was free since he purged the Black Ajah and put Alviarin in charge. So Ishamel would have to be responsible. 

3) What do the Aiel do with corpses? They cannot be burning (for lack of firewood) but do they bury? Do they just pile a few rocks on to form a cairn? Or just leave it exposed for the elements to take care of?

In addition, this must have been a situation where there was a scrap going on in the Blight so they may have been forced to abandon the body. So there may/ may not have been a corpse.

 

I think it would be too difficult for Ishamel to have wormed his way into the Aiel and used MoM etc, for the length of time required to pretend to be a clan chief with the all delicacies of Toh involved. Also, his PoV as well as that of the other Chosen suggests that the Aiel, as they've evolved, are an unfamiliar culture to him.

 

But a mass illusion compulsion - hmmm.

 

 

[JW]

Ok,

 

I still think the thing is the cache of ter'angreal and angreal in ebou dar. It is first mentioned in LoC, Avienda tells Rand of a dream that all the Aiel dreamwalkers had, which is very significant. A bowl with rain coming out of it and a treasure almost as great as the bowl. The part of the cache is mentioned throughout the series as Elayne sorts through it. But some was carried off by darkfriends and some was left behind, I believe.

As for the significant thing, it could be the dagger that Avienda said that whoever held it could not even be seen by the Dark One. We know that channeling around Thakandar is leathal but what if someone had the dagger with them (like Rand). It could mean victory instead of defeat.

[firstfishman]

I remember thinking about the dagger when she said what her impression of it was. I thought it might be the key that Rand needs in order to defeat the Dark One. For some reason I havent thought about it much since reading about it. Which is funny when you think about it. How could a person just dismiss something so huge?

[Dreamwalker]

I remember thinking about the dagger when she said what her impression of it was. I thought it might be the key that Rand needs in order to defeat the Dark One. For some reason I havent thought about it much since reading about it. Which is funny when you think about it. How could a person just dismiss something so huge?

 

I think the knife ter'angreal will be big, but not that Rand will use it. I think that Elayne might give birth during the Last Battle and maybe even at Shayol Ghul (we've seen her be crazy already about thinking she'll be safe til her kids are born) and the dagger could make this possible. It's maybe a little out there, and I'm not going to go into all of the details here because I don't think it's the BUT, but I wrote a blog post about it if you're interested in the rest of the theory: http://telaranrhiod-awheeloftimeblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/once-for-mourning-once-for-birth.html

[Glowbal]

Ishmeal can't be Jindain. Because he is not Aiel. Rand has Aiel blood.

[JediMindTrick]

After sleeping on my idea that Jindain might somehow be alive I considered another possibility.   If it was Slayer / Luc that supposedly killed him then it would also likely be Slayer / Luc that imprisoned him.  About the first time we see Slayer / Luc is in the wolf dream when Perrin sees him going into the tower of ghenjei.   This is where we all assume Mat is going next book so could it be possible that he'll be rescuing more than just Moraine?  

 

I'm probably wrong but I would tend to think that my idea is closer to truth than the thing being some angreal, terangreal, or something like that.   Vin's earring was something that was basically just mentioned in passing and at the time was just meant to give us some insight to her character.   She wears an earring as a token of remembrance . . . .how sweet.    That makes me think the thing Brandon was talking about deals with something similar about Rand or some other major character's history or persona that we all just take as being a minor descriptive detail but is going to really matter.  Thats why I think its going to be something directly about a character or characters rather than about an item(s) someone finds that has no direct connection to anyone.  My thought of Jindain being alive fits this because it is a major issue to Rand if he's alive though who is father actually was is a pretty minor detail as it could have been any Aiel.   And his heritage is something that constantly gets talked about in all the remaining books in a way whenever the Maidens of the Spear talk about Rand's heritage and how is the the child of the Maiden that was returned to them.  And its in books 4-6 where this really first gets talked about seriously since thats where Rand learns his heritage, where he chooses the Maidens to carry his honor, and such.  

[jwillis7]

speaking of Slayer what was he doing going into the Tower of Ghenjei.

[thewalrus777]

speaking of Slayer what was he doing going into the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

doing whatever he feels like. ;D

[WolfDragonFox]

Way off topic but wow  I now have a personal emal reply from both RJ and BS saved in my email.  Its crazy.

[nwash_10]

I'm sure this was mentioned but I'm being lazy.  What about Moiraine's blue stone, which she uses to evesdrop on Rand while they are in the waste.

 

Also, I don't know why it hasn't been more in the forefront of my mind but if Moiraine's tumble through the Redframed doorway to finnland was her first, then she is owed three wishes.  What do we think they might be?

[Sharaman]

speaking of Slayer what was he doing going into the Tower of Ghenjei.

doing whatever he feels like. ;D

Not 100% sure that Slayer went into the ToG himself. He disappeared at the ToG obviously trying to give that impression. But he may just have been trying to lure Perrin into entering the ToG and not actually gone there himself.

 

I'm sure this was mentioned but I'm being lazy.  What about Moiraine's blue stone, which she uses to evesdrop on Rand while they are in the waste.

 

Also, I don't know why it hasn't been more in the forefront of my mind but if Moiraine's tumble through the Redframed doorway to finnland was her first, then she is owed three wishes.  What do we think they might be?

Moiraine's blue stone is just something she uses as a focus - it's not an angreal.

Yes - she would be owed three wishes  - you can't enter the doorway twice.

But the Finns have weird vibes about stuff that touches the Shadow closely and Moiraine is doing that since she's clasped Lanfear to her bosom. (Also she may be carrying iron.)

 

[TaiDashan]

Cannot be the crystal throne...

 

The throne of the Empress of  Seanchan in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

References

 

    * Guide - The Crystal Throne is, in fact, a ter'angreal that inspires awe in all who approach.

    * It does not require channeling. (from Winter's Heart signings)

    * TGH,Ch34 - The Empress of Seanchan sits on the Crystal Throne in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

    * WH,Ch14 - The Seanchan version of the Prophecies of the Dragon says that the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don or all is lost.

    * WH,Ch18 - Seanchan coins have the image of the Empress on one side and the Crystal Throne on the other.

    * KoD,Ch8 � Tuon tells Mat that the Prophecies of the Dragon say he must kneel before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle.

    * KoD,Ch9 � The Empress of Seanchan always has many children to ensure a fit successor to the Crystal Throne.

 

First mentioned in Book 2 and then again in book 9...

[TheBrokenArrow]

Personally, I think the BUT is the little fat man angreal. It fits the criteria of being present in books 4-6 and is definitely something i forgot about after it disappeared at the end of LOC - and i haven't seen any discussions about it although i am new to the scene - but it did disturb me that Rand couldn't find it even after he tore the wagons apart looking for it. It is very much like Vin's earring; something small and seemingly of little consequence (when compared to the immense power of the Choedan Kal or Callandor) but is something which pops up occasionally because Rand felt a good amount of affection for it.

 

My second favorite theory is that Rand's interpretation of the "one who follows after" prophecy is completely bogus. This occurs in book 4 and is mentioned quite a few times after in passing but seems of little consequence to the characters other than the nature of what the "follows after" will entail. They never question Rand's first interpretation of events, which - with every character in WOT - is pretty much always wrong. I  believe the prophecy has something to do with how Rand will use Callandor - since TGS made me very suspicious of anything to do with it - to defeat the Shadow at TG and Logain will be the one to "draw" it and "follow after" the "dead" Rand in leading the male channelers to get his glory. But i feel that this would have been discussed at length before on the boards yet again im pretty new and ignorant so i dont know.

 

 

[Dead Guy]

Didn't the fat man angreal stab Rand in the hand with his little sword once? I always found that somewhat odd. Can't remember the circumstances though.

[Aquarius]

Didn't the fat man angreal stab Rand in the hand with his little sword once? I always found that somewhat odd. Can't remember the circumstances though.

His grip on it was so strong that the little sword pressed into his palm actually cut him.

[TaiDashan]

This rules out it being the fat man angreal. In fact it kinda puts the crimp on this being an object of any time. 'It's been going for a long time' seems to imply that this overlooked thing is an event, or an effect....

 

nope...

[Casabamelon]

Way off topic but wow  I now have a personal emal reply from both RJ and BS saved in my email.  Its crazy.

You gonna post that in every thread?

[The Lost One]

I am doing a re-read or I should say re-listen (audio books) and I noticed something that I have never caught before.  Forgive my mispelling of names....when Suian is talking to Min and the Keeper in The Shadow Rising, she is talking about all the crazy reports she has been getting.  This is right before she gets the report that Rand has taken callindor.   One of the things she mentions is that a Lord of Shinar (Borderlands) has proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn.  Could this be it...that the Boderlands have their own "Dragon Reborn" or think they have the true one?  (unseen Foresaken..maybe?)

 

That would be "The Prophet" preaching about Rand.  Masema(The Prophet) is insanely dedicated to the DB, but has twisted himself into a lunatic, mainly because he was sent from their hideout in the mountains by Lan & Moiraine after Rand fled alone. (thus not allowed to be near Rand again) The "Shienaran lord" part of that discussion is just Masema's twist on the proclamation, mostly due to the soldiers of Fal Dara having been the first to see and follow Rand before and after the events at Falme.

 

Also, a lot of the rank-and-file in Sheinar did think that Rand was a lord, partially because of the importance that Moiraine put on him, getting welcomed into the home of the Sheinarian king, but also because the Al' in his last name was a royal or noble prefix used in Sheinarian names.  So wasn't so much a twist on the proclamation as much as something Masema might have believed.

 

I know this got shot down before, however, as I continue my re-read, in The Fires of Heaven it is mentioned that the Sheinarins are fighting each other.  The sisters don't understand why they would be fighting with each other and there is no information given to what is causing it. 

 

Did Masema actually stay in Sheinar to preach about the Dragon Reborn?  I though he left with Rand before and started his preaching outside of the borderlands?  And I know they thought Rand was a lord, but they knew he was not Sheinarin.  I still find these reports about Sheinar interesting.

Why would they be fighting among themselves? 

[Batsoww]

I still think the only thing I've continually seen go undiscussed and unnoticed is the effects of TAR when someone enters in the flesh.  It is only mentioned by Aiel Wise Ones in books 4-6 and is hardly mentioned again.  The Wise Ones say that you can lose a piece of yourself when you do it.  The only good guys we have seen do it are Egwene and Rand and in the case of Rand, he starts to grow harder and harder afterward.  Perhaps he has lost some of himself and perhaps the only way to regain the "laughter and tears" is somehow connected to this.  Who is to say that Egwene has gone totally unaffected as well?

 

Rand first enters TAR in the flesh at the end of The Dragon Reborn while chasing Ba'alzamon.  Then at the beginning of The Shadow Rising, Lews Therin's first utterance occurs during the trolloc battle in the Stone when Rand releases that whirlwind.  The voice just says, "Now".  I have a theory that when Rand entered TAR, it gave the Lews Therin voice a chance to enter his head for the first time.  We know that legends hang out there right?  Birgitte and Gaidal Cain for example.

 

Thats just what I think the unnoticed thing is.  I honestly never saw it until a recent re-read and keeping the books 4-6 unnoticed thing in my mind as I read.

[aunt_pol]

Cannot be the crystal throne...

 

The throne of the Empress of  Seanchan in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

References

 

    * Guide - The Crystal Throne is, in fact, a ter'angreal that inspires awe in all who approach.

    * It does not require channeling. (from Winter's Heart signings)

    * TGH,Ch34 - The Empress of Seanchan sits on the Crystal Throne in the Court of the Nine Moons in Seandar.

    * WH,Ch14 - The Seanchan version of the Prophecies of the Dragon says that the Dragon Reborn must kneel before the Crystal Throne before Tarmon Gai'don or all is lost.

    * WH,Ch18 - Seanchan coins have the image of the Empress on one side and the Crystal Throne on the other.

    * KoD,Ch8 � Tuon tells Mat that the Prophecies of the Dragon say he must kneel before the Crystal Throne before the Last Battle.

    * KoD,Ch9 � The Empress of Seanchan always has many children to ensure a fit successor to the Crystal Throne.

 

First mentioned in Book 2 and then again in book 9...

 

 

 

But it can be the crystal throne that was sat in Rhuidean, never seen before The Shadow Rising, I think it was.

[dumont76]

I'm in a re-read of tSR right now, which I have been taking notes on to see if I can figure this out.  I'll be watching the crystal throne theory as well as the many others being tossed about.  What fun!

 

I don't know if I'll catch it, but it's great trying... ;D

[shadowkiller_001]

One thing that i've thought about is that just because BS had a story with Vin's earring in it, doesn't mean that RJ's does.

It is too large a leap for me to connect the two authors like that. I suppose Sanderson could have seen this BUT in the WoT series and thought "hey this is just like vin's earring". But for me that seems to be a tenuous connection.

 

I think that the BUT could be almost anything; person, place or thing.

The Vin's earring theory is not proof perfect for me, and i can't dismiss some of these theories who's only fault is that they are unlike Vin's earring.

 

I just hope that when we find out what it is it isn't something obvious and lame.

 

personally I like the fat man angreal, something to do with aes sedai influencing warder's through the warder bond, or the t'ar in the flesh thing.

[The Lost One]

I am doing a re-read or I should say re-listen (audio books) and I noticed something that I have never caught before.  Forgive my mispelling of names....when Suian is talking to Min and the Keeper in The Shadow Rising, she is talking about all the crazy reports she has been getting.  This is right before she gets the report that Rand has taken callindor.   One of the things she mentions is that a Lord of Shinar (Borderlands) has proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn.  Could this be it...that the Boderlands have their own "Dragon Reborn" or think they have the true one?  (unseen Foresaken..maybe?)

 

That would be "The Prophet" preaching about Rand.  Masema(The Prophet) is insanely dedicated to the DB, but has twisted himself into a lunatic, mainly because he was sent from their hideout in the mountains by Lan & Moiraine after Rand fled alone. (thus not allowed to be near Rand again) The "Shienaran lord" part of that discussion is just Masema's twist on the proclamation, mostly due to the soldiers of Fal Dara having been the first to see and follow Rand before and after the events at Falme.

 

Also, a lot of the rank-and-file in Sheinar did think that Rand was a lord, partially because of the importance that Moiraine put on him, getting welcomed into the home of the Sheinarian king, but also because the Al' in his last name was a royal or noble prefix used in Sheinarian names.  So wasn't so much a twist on the proclamation as much as something Masema might have believed.

 

I know this got shot down before, however, as I continue my re-read, in The Fires of Heaven it is mentioned that the Sheinarins are fighting each other.  The sisters don't understand why they would be fighting with each other and there is no information given to what is causing it. 

 

Did Masema actually stay in Sheinar to preach about the Dragon Reborn?  I though he left with Rand before and started his preaching outside of the borderlands?  And I know they thought Rand was a lord, but they knew he was not Sheinarin.   I still find these reports about Sheinar interesting.

Why would they be fighting among themselves? 

 

Okay now further along in The Fires of Heaven, there are reports of rebellion in Sheinar.  What would cause a rebellion in Sheinar?

[mossman87]

After sleeping on my idea that Jindain might somehow be alive I considered another possibility.   If it was Slayer / Luc that supposedly killed him then it would also likely be Slayer / Luc that imprisoned him.  About the first time we see Slayer / Luc is in the wolf dream when Perrin sees him going into the tower of ghenjei.   This is where we all assume Mat is going next book so could it be possible that he'll be rescuing more than just Moraine?  

 

I'm probably wrong but I would tend to think that my idea is closer to truth than the thing being some angreal, terangreal, or something like that.   Vin's earring was something that was basically just mentioned in passing and at the time was just meant to give us some insight to her character.   She wears an earring as a token of remembrance . . . .how sweet.    That makes me think the thing Brandon was talking about deals with something similar about Rand or some other major character's history or persona that we all just take as being a minor descriptive detail but is going to really matter.  Thats why I think its going to be something directly about a character or characters rather than about an item(s) someone finds that has no direct connection to anyone.  My thought of Jindain being alive fits this because it is a major issue to Rand if he's alive though who is father actually was is a pretty minor detail as it could have been any Aiel.   And his heritage is something that constantly gets talked about in all the remaining books in a way whenever the Maidens of the Spear talk about Rand's heritage and how is the the child of the Maiden that was returned to them.  And its in books 4-6 where this really first gets talked about seriously since thats where Rand learns his heritage, where he chooses the Maidens to carry his honor, and such.  

 

But what's the puzzle that should have been solved at the time?  The puzzle if he's alive?  We were told he was killed so there wasn't any puzzle, unless you mean we're supposed to question everything we're told and then that makes everything a puzzle.