The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[lammbo]

You know, and it just hit me after reading one of the posts, all the Tinkers need to do to find the song is go to Rhudian and go through the pillars. :) Now that Rand "opened" city to the rest of the world (kind of) it's only the matter of time.

I doubt this would work for all Tinkers since the bloodline is so diluted.  You would have to find a tinker who has the original Aiel blood (see next comment below).

 

Also, we don't really know if WO see in Rhudian what others see. They make two trips (why, I wonder). Following the same line of thought, I wondered if clan chiefs see the same story (through the same eyes) or do they follow the story through the eyes of their ancestors? After all, the once that did come to Rhudian initially survived as clans and the ones that didn't are long gone. I would be cool if Shaido clan chief sees things in Rhudian through the eyes of the Shaido's ancestors.

It's been stated in the book that the timeline regression seen in the crystal columns by Aiel is that as witnessed by direct bloodline ancestors.  The WO make 2 trips: First one is through the Arches T'A that lets them glimpse all of their possible futures once apprenticed.  Second trip is through the glass columns to see the origin of the Aiel once they are deemed ready to become a full WO.

 

Edit:  forgot to post reply for over an hour...  basically same as said above this.

 

[dumont76]

I'm not in disagreement with the Tinker theory and I am curious to see how they might all come together under a leader and who that leader may be and so on from there...

 

I do have a brief thought on another possibility (longshot)if my memory serves me correctly (very longshot).  Please shoot me down if I'm mistaken or let me know if this has been posted before!

 

Has anyone ever discovered what a dragon is? (that's the memory glitch)  I know in tSR Egwene discovers the skeleton of what I assume to be a dragon at the Panarch's palace while in TAR.  There is also some brief discussion with Moiraine as to what a dragon actually is earlier in tSR (not long before Egwene's stint in TAR where she meets Amys & sees the skeleton)  I don't know if I'm on to something or not.  Just a thought...

Fire away!!  :)

[Glowbal]

I always thought the skeleton was that of a giraf.  ???

[lammbo]

I always thought the skeleton was that of a giraf.  ???

 

I always thought it was a wooly mammoth (assuming we are speaking of the same one)

[GrandpaG]

It was a Tyrannosaurus Rex.  ;D

 

To get the answer about the Tinkers/Aiel going through the glass columns, check out the Tinker RP in a couple of weeks.  Jake and Sahandra are headed that way.  In the Last Battle thread, other Tinkers have already congregated at Rhuidean.  The Pattern has been guiding their Mahdi to lead them there.  Plus, Rand Al'Thor personally visited as many Tinker trains as he could find a year or so ago over in the Wagons of the Tuatha'an thread to tell them the glass column story and to let them know that they could find their lost Song by going through with an Aiel escort.  Why the escort you ask?  Thinned blood.  The Tinkers will watch through the Aiel escorts' eyes.  I won't tell you here what will happen when they emerge.  RAFO.  ;D

 

The answer to THIS thread is:  AIEL DARKFRIENDS!!!

[NetSlider]

It was a Tyrannosaurus Rex.  ;D

 

To get the answer about the Tinkers/Aiel going through the glass columns, check out the Tinker RP in a couple of weeks.  Jake and Sahandra are headed that way.  In the Last Battle thread, other Tinkers have already congregated at Rhuidean.  The Pattern has been guiding their Mahdi to lead them there.  Plus, Rand Al'Thor personally visited as many Tinker trains as he could find a year or so ago over in the Wagons of the Tuatha'an thread to tell them the glass column story and to let them know that they could find their lost Song by going through with an Aiel escort.  Why the escort you ask?  Thinned blood.  The Tinkers will watch through the Aiel escorts' eyes.  I won't tell you here what will happen when they emerge.  RAFO.  ;D

 

The answer to THIS thread is:  AIEL DARKFRIENDS!!!

 

I hope this is a joke (lame laughter).....please.....

 

If the second trip for WO to see what clan chiefs see why is Avi going to Rhudian? She already knows and accepts. ????

[GrandpaG]

It was a Tyrannosaurus Rex.  ;D

 

To get the answer about the Tinkers/Aiel going through the glass columns, check out the Tinker RP in a couple of weeks.  Jake and Sahandra are headed that way.  In the Last Battle thread, other Tinkers have already congregated at Rhuidean.  The Pattern has been guiding their Mahdi to lead them there.  Plus, Rand Al'Thor personally visited as many Tinker trains as he could find a year or so ago over in the Wagons of the Tuatha'an thread to tell them the glass column story and to let them know that they could find their lost Song by going through with an Aiel escort.  Why the escort you ask?  Thinned blood.  The Tinkers will watch through the Aiel escorts' eyes.  I won't tell you here what will happen when they emerge.  RAFO.  ;D

 

The answer to THIS thread is:  AIEL DARKFRIENDS!!!

 

I hope this is a joke (lame laughter).....please.....

 

If the second trip for WO to see what clan chiefs see why is Avi going to Rhudian? She already knows and accepts. ????

 

 

I'm full of "it" most of the time, but I enjoy being me.  Spent too many years performing for other people who really didn't care (in that "other" world called reality).  Now, I'm older and I realize that if I am to have ANY fun before I die, I'd best get to it!!!  Thus, RP.  Pure inhibition.  Let the imagination fly.  Those who like it will read it...those who don't, don't have to.  ;)

[ethame]

I've lurked for a long time, just registered to post here. I'm listening to tSR now, and I'm not sure when it starts (it could have started earlier than this, but the thought occurred to me so I'm posting it) but can it have anything to do with Loial's writings?

 

It continues through the rest of the books

I don't see much if any discussion of it on Dragonmount, or theoryland

 

The problems are that I don't know why it would be important, thus perhaps not a big thing overlooked....

and I don't know when he started writing about Rand & Co.

 

I also haven't read mistborn yet, so I'm not sure what specifically it is similar to in those books (in detail, I've read some of it I don't really understand)

[JW]

I have not followed this thread at all, so sorry if someone has mentioned this.

 

I think that the little thing may be Egwenes vision of the cache of angreal and ter'angreal. She says something to the effect that the bowl of the winds is very important, but there are other items that will give great benefit to the side that gains the stash besides the bowl. It might even be crucial to the last battle. Anyway, part of the stash was taken by the forsaken and black ajah, and part by Elayne and Nynaeve, and I think some was left in the room. I can not remember when she had this dream, but this is what I think it is. Who has the important object?

 

Sorry if I stepped on someones toes, and sorry if this is outside of the timeline.

[NetSlider]

It was a Tyrannosaurus Rex.  ;D

 

To get the answer about the Tinkers/Aiel going through the glass columns, check out the Tinker RP in a couple of weeks.  Jake and Sahandra are headed that way.  In the Last Battle thread, other Tinkers have already congregated at Rhuidean.  The Pattern has been guiding their Mahdi to lead them there.  Plus, Rand Al'Thor personally visited as many Tinker trains as he could find a year or so ago over in the Wagons of the Tuatha'an thread to tell them the glass column story and to let them know that they could find their lost Song by going through with an Aiel escort.  Why the escort you ask?  Thinned blood.  The Tinkers will watch through the Aiel escorts' eyes.  I won't tell you here what will happen when they emerge.  RAFO.  ;D

 

The answer to THIS thread is:  AIEL DARKFRIENDS!!!

 

I hope this is a joke (lame laughter).....please.....

 

If the second trip for WO to see what clan chiefs see why is Avi going to Rhudian? She already knows and accepts. ????

 

 

I'm full of "it" most of the time, but I enjoy being me.  Spent too many years performing for other people who really didn't care (in that "other" world called reality).  Now, I'm older and I realize that if I am to have ANY fun before I die, I'd best get to it!!!  Thus, RP.  Pure inhibition.  Let the imagination fly.  Those who like it will read it...those who don't, don't have to.  ;)

 

It would be a real irony of a Shakespearean magnitude if what you said was actually the case. Maybe this was your performance of a life time! :)

[NetSlider]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

[lammbo]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

 

My guess would be that it's still a part of the right to passage, a thing steeped in tradition.  I would also venture a guess that the WO would view it as a difference between being told the truth and seeing the truth for yourself.

[Glowbal]

I always thought the skeleton was that of a giraf.  ???

 

I always thought it was a wooly mammoth (assuming we are speaking of the same one)

 

 

Hmm.. perhaps I might need to read it again. It's been some while ago.

[dumont76]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

 

My guess would be that it's still a part of the right to passage, a thing steeped in tradition.   I would also venture a guess that the WO would view it as a difference between being told the truth and seeing the truth for yourself.

 

That pretty much sums it up, plus the WOs to just "let" her accept and not follow their traditions and rules would be an absolute travesty to their entire purpose  ;)

 

[dumont76]

I always thought the skeleton was that of a giraf.  ???

 

I always thought it was a wooly mammoth (assuming we are speaking of the same one)

 

 

Hmm.. perhaps I might need to read it again. It's been some while ago.

I think 3 of the skels. are described, and I agree one is a giraffe (thin, long neck), but the one that seems to draw her attention?  Maybe it is a mammoth or elephant, but it just seems to carry some unseen weight, IMO. One of my reasons for this suspicion is that the dragon sigil is akin to oriental styling, and many of those types of dragons have tusk-like features aside their snouts.  I'm probably way off track here, but I wanted to propose another wildly impossible theory.  ;D

 

 

 

 

 

[thewalrus777]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

 

My guess would be that it's still a part of the right to passage, a thing steeped in tradition.   I would also venture a guess that the WO would view it as a difference between being told the truth and seeing the truth for yourself.

 

That pretty much sums it up, plus the WOs to just "let" her accept and not follow their traditions and rules would be an absolute travesty to their entire purpose  ;)

 

 

Which is to make sure a remnant of a remnant survive. The WO's observe all Aiel customs strictly. They don't want the ways of the Aiel to dissapear.

[bramaen]

I have a theory about the big unnoticed thing.  I believe it was mentioned in Rhuidean, but I'm not completely through that part of book 4 yet.

 

So, my question at the moment is, the visions Rand saw as he travelled back through time to learn the truth about the Aiel.  Were those *his* past lives, or was each person he was seeing through get "inhabited" by any Aiel who steps into the ter'angreal?  I have some memory that later on in book 4, Rhuarc says that not everyone sees exactly the same thing, which implies that they do not inhabit the same people, and instead may inhabit their own past lives.

[Dreamwalker]

I have a theory about the big unnoticed thing.  I believe it was mentioned in Rhuidean, but I'm not completely through that part of book 4 yet.

 

So, my question at the moment is, the visions Rand saw as he travelled back through time to learn the truth about the Aiel.  Were those *his* past lives, or was each person he was seeing through get "inhabited" by any Aiel who steps into the ter'angreal?  I have some memory that later on in book 4, Rhuarc says that not everyone sees exactly the same thing, which implies that they do not inhabit the same people, and instead may inhabit their own past lives.

 

It isn't their past lives (you can tell it isn't because some of them are alive at the same time, a father and son pair I can remember particularly), it's seeing through the eyes of their blood ancestors. The reason everyone sees something different is because everyone has slightly different ancestors/bloodlines.

[thewalrus777]

I have a theory about the big unnoticed thing.  I believe it was mentioned in Rhuidean, but I'm not completely through that part of book 4 yet.

 

So, my question at the moment is, the visions Rand saw as he travelled back through time to learn the truth about the Aiel.  Were those *his* past lives, or was each person he was seeing through get "inhabited" by any Aiel who steps into the ter'angreal?  I have some memory that later on in book 4, Rhuarc says that not everyone sees exactly the same thing, which implies that they do not inhabit the same people, and instead may inhabit their own past lives.

 

Those were his ancestors eyes he was looking through. When a possible Clan Chief or Wise One go through the ter'angreal in Rhuidean, they see the past through the eyes of their ancestors, the people they were decended from. It's meant as a way to remember what the Aiel nation once was. And only those who can accept what once was, survive it.

[birtikidis]

I said this in another thread but wasn't sure if it belonged here or there..

what if the dark one isn't trying to destroy the wheel itself but that which turns it?  what if by remaking the wheel in a way that the true source dissipates before touching he essentially "Stalls" the wheel.

I actually had a really good theory, but it took so long to register that I cannot remember it... if i do, I'll post it. 

i know, weak first attempt!

[Sharaman]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

 

Every Wise One runs two circuits through two different ter'angreals in Rhuidean.

The first is the ter'angreal that tells them their possible futures. Avi saw her relationship with Rand and Moiraine saw the Lanfear confrontation on that one. Chiefs don't run that one or at least Rand didn't.

The second is the ter'angreal that Rand and the potential chiefs go through - where Aiel see their ancestors' lives. That tells them where they come from.

 

[The Lost One]

I am doing a re-read or I should say re-listen (audio books) and I noticed something that I have never caught before.  Forgive my mispelling of names....when Suian is talking to Min and the Keeper in The Shadow Rising, she is talking about all the crazy reports she has been getting.  This is right before she gets the report that Rand has taken callindor.   One of the things she mentions is that a Lord of Shinar (Borderlands) has proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn.  Could this be it...that the Boderlands have their own "Dragon Reborn" or think they have the true one?  (unseen Foresaken..maybe?)

[dumont76]

I am doing a re-read or I should say re-listen (audio books) and I noticed something that I have never caught before.  Forgive my mispelling of names....when Suian is talking to Min and the Keeper in The Shadow Rising, she is talking about all the crazy reports she has been getting.  This is right before she gets the report that Rand has taken callindor.   One of the things she mentions is that a Lord of Shinar (Borderlands) has proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn.  Could this be it...that the Boderlands have their own "Dragon Reborn" or think they have the true one?  (unseen Foresaken..maybe?)

 

That would be "The Prophet" preaching about Rand.  Masema(The Prophet) is insanely dedicated to the DB, but has twisted himself into a lunatic, mainly because he was sent from their hideout in the mountains by Lan & Moiraine after Rand fled alone. (thus not allowed to be near Rand again) The "Shienaran lord" part of that discussion is just Masema's twist on the proclamation, mostly due to the soldiers of Fal Dara having been the first to see and follow Rand before and after the events at Falme.

 

 

[Dakota]

I am doing a re-read or I should say re-listen (audio books) and I noticed something that I have never caught before.  Forgive my mispelling of names....when Suian is talking to Min and the Keeper in The Shadow Rising, she is talking about all the crazy reports she has been getting.  This is right before she gets the report that Rand has taken callindor.   One of the things she mentions is that a Lord of Shinar (Borderlands) has proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn.  Could this be it...that the Boderlands have their own "Dragon Reborn" or think they have the true one?  (unseen Foresaken..maybe?)

 

That would be "The Prophet" preaching about Rand.  Masema(The Prophet) is insanely dedicated to the DB, but has twisted himself into a lunatic, mainly because he was sent from their hideout in the mountains by Lan & Moiraine after Rand fled alone. (thus not allowed to be near Rand again) The "Shienaran lord" part of that discussion is just Masema's twist on the proclamation, mostly due to the soldiers of Fal Dara having been the first to see and follow Rand before and after the events at Falme.

 

Also, a lot of the rank-and-file in Sheinar did think that Rand was a lord, partially because of the importance that Moiraine put on him, getting welcomed into the home of the Sheinarian king, but also because the Al' in his last name was a royal or noble prefix used in Sheinarian names.  So wasn't so much a twist on the proclamation as much as something Masema might have believed.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Ok, I'll repeat my question again, for those to actually really care (I do have friends! I DO! They are just nut real) :)

 

Why does Avi needs to go to Rhudian for the second time if she already knows the truth and accepts it?

 

My guess would be that it's still a part of the right to passage, a thing steeped in tradition.   I would also venture a guess that the WO would view it as a difference between being told the truth and seeing the truth for yourself.

 

That pretty much sums it up, plus the WOs to just "let" her accept and not follow their traditions and rules would be an absolute travesty to their entire purpose  ;)

 

 

Which is to make sure a remnant of a remnant survive. The WO's observe all Aiel customs strictly. They don't want the ways of the Aiel to dissapear.

When I think about it the revelations from Aviendha's second trip to Rhuidean which will be in the next book could have been hinted at starting in book 4.  Maybe it has something to do with how the Aiel failed the Aes Sedia.  I always thought it was about the failure to stick to the way of the leaf, but maybe it has something to do with the discarded one power items (just guessing I do not think this is really it).  However, when the Aiel where digging wells for the Cairhienians, didn't they say something about Aes Sedia being in the wagons with the Aiel and traveling with them off and on for a couple of years.  And the Aes Sedia were involved with Rhuidean's construction.  Since channelling follows blood lines and we will be seeing Aviendha's blood line, it seems reasonable that we will be seeing a lot of wise ones history.  What if the failure was not losing the way of the leaf but something that has do with Rhuidean.  In the begining the wise ones were afraid of the Aes Sedia and have been warned not to fail them again.  But what could it be?