The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[ed2funy]

lmao....

[Terez]

Alviarin confirmed in her thoughts that the female sa'angreal was destroyed, in Crossroads (this is right before she returned to the Tower to discover that Elaida had removed her as Keeper - she had visited both the site of the Cleansing and the site of the statue).  Too lazy to fetch the quote.

 

This thread gives me a headache.

 

Also, to the person that responded to me like 12 pages ago....we know that Moiraine didn't see anything else in the rings because she told Rand that she knew nothing else of the future except one tidbit that did not concern him.  So likely, the rest she got was just impressions, like the impression that Aviendha had when Elayne wanted to go rescue Rand from the Cleansing (BAD).

[NetSlider]

Callandor was made after Lanfear was sealed and I think even after LTT died because otherwise we would have it with him at the end (or beginning) :) As far as how powerful it is, I think it is the MOST powerful of them all as long as it used properly. After all, it was made specifically for the Dragon Reborn and whoever made it had more knowledge in one and/or true powers than anyone we ever seen (if none of the forsaken can even go through the barrier it had to be something very special indeed). who knows what she/he or they knew when the calandor was made that we have no clue about. which brings me to my question, who did make calandor? the earliest time we see it is in the Rand's vision in the rhudian.

[clu7ch]

The thing i want to know most is what the shiny sword is made of. It splits a weave of balefire like water on a rock, and it's clear, unlike heartstone.

 

Also, if it was made after the breaking that is odd, seeing as I'd figure only a man can make a man sa'angreal. don't know that for sure but that's how logic works for me. Maybe Ishamael made it. o.O

[NetSlider]

Very good questions indeed! All of these are very important questions that are very obvious and yet were not asked in any extensive way.

[Sentinel78]

Callandor was made after Lanfear was sealed and I think even after LTT died because otherwise we would have it with him at the end (or beginning)

 

The Companion book says Callandor was made during the War of Power (not the Breaking), and that the Stone of Tear was made during the Breaking, presumably to protect Callandor.  The War of Power is stated to end at the Sealing of the Bore, which implies Callandor was made before LTT went mad or Lanfear was sealed. 

 

We have no idea if LTT ever used or knew about Callandor, though I'd gather he at least knew about it since Lanfear had knowledge of its power related to other male sa'angreal.  The earliest we see Callandor is during Rand's flashback to the Breaking in Book 4 in the Rhuidean columns.  In this scene, Callandor is sitting on a desk with some Aes Sedai who say that "the sword must wait" while they go to make the Eye of the World with Someshta/Green Man.

[maradon]

I don't have the book with me, but in book 4 when Rand enters Rhuidean and see's the flashbacks of his ancestors or whoever they are, doesn't he see some helmets that are likened to the Seanchan helmets? I believe it goes on to say something about the warriois hearing the song or something as they wear them. If someone could find out if thats true it'd be appreciated! :) It just seems a bit coincidental having helmets like that thousands of years apart unless they were a ter'angreal or something.

[NetSlider]

I don't have the book with me, but in book 4 when Rand enters Rhuidean and see's the flashbacks of his ancestors or whoever they are, doesn't he see some helmets that are likened to the Seanchan helmets? I believe it goes on to say something about the warriois hearing the song or something as they wear them. If someone could find out if thats true it'd be appreciated! :) It just seems a bit coincidental having helmets like that thousands of years apart unless they were a ter'angreal or something.

 

Yeah, the helmets look like insect's heads.

 

Callandor was made after Lanfear was sealed and I think even after LTT died because otherwise we would have it with him at the end (or beginning)

 

The Companion book says Callandor was made during the War of Power (not the Breaking), and that the Stone of Tear was made during the Breaking, presumably to protect Callandor.  The War of Power is stated to end at the Sealing of the Bore, which implies Callandor was made before LTT went mad or Lanfear was sealed. 

 

We have no idea if LTT ever used or knew about Callandor, though I'd gather he at least knew about it since Lanfear had knowledge of its power related to other male sa'angreal.  The earliest we see Callandor is during Rand's flashback to the Breaking in Book 4 in the Rhuidean columns.  In this scene, Callandor is sitting on a desk with some Aes Sedai who say that "the sword must wait" while they go to make the Eye of the World with Someshta/Green Man.

 

Thanks for the answer (I really was not sure but always assumed LTT never used it). I also find it interesting that Lanfear knows a lot about calandor while no where in the white tower (or at least we never saw it mentioned) AS know much about it. WHO THE HELL DID PUT CALANDOR IN THE STONE??!!!!!!  ???

[NetSlider]

Weird, quote got all messed up. I didn't check before posting, sorry.

[maradon]

WHO THE HELL DID PUT CALANDOR IN THE STONE??!!!!!!  ???

 

Well we know from the books that the shield around callandor was put in place using both parts of the True Source (Book 3 one of the girls is dreamwalking and tests the shield, but comes up against something she can't see that is interwoven with Saidar). Hence I think we should assume it happened after the 100 companions sealed the bore but perhaps before the Eye of the World was formed. So in answer to your question by both male and female Aes Sedai between the War of Power and The Breaking.

[clu7ch]

Correct. It is known that not all men went insane instantly. SOme of them probably had some usefulness to give to the world. IE putting Callandor into the stone, and weaving the shield to protect it. Although putting a king-arthur Excalibur weave on something would be nifty to know.......

 

Plus Really, Aes Sedai really know more about callandor than rand does. Caddy knew of it's flaw, Lanfear was at one point a prominent AS, I'd venture a guess that they have some documents concerning the sa'angreal that remain in this age.

[clu7ch]

an epic fail on my part....

 

LINK

 

basically sums up our callandor discussion here lol.

 

What i find odd, is that the Green man was present when they discussed Callandor. I presume it only has to do with the Dragon banner as the Aes Sedai went to make the Eye of the world. although I'd love to know how they made pure saidin during the breaking. Perhaps they used Callandor much as Rand used the CK to cleanse ALL of saidin, but they just used it to cleanse what they considered to be a small amount. Even the most powerful AS of the age of legends would probably call what Rand did with the CK reckless, as he could have killed himself.

[Sentinel78]

Perhaps they used Callandor much as Rand used the CK to cleanse ALL of saidin, but they just used it to cleanse what they considered to be a small amount.

 

Moiraine stated that they made he Eye pure at the cost of their own lives, whatever that means.  It's very unclear how this was accomplished, but it couldn't be the way Rand did it because Rand essentially linked the taint to Shadar Logoth with Saidin as the wire and Saidar as the wire insulation so that the two evils would be drawn to each other and cancel each other out.  Shadar Logoth wasn't around back then, and the evil Mordeth found to create it (most likely from the Finns) likely was still in Finnland at that point (note: see BS's comments on Mordeth and the Finns for support of this).

 

Because the Aes Sedai in the Rhuidean flashback had Callandor and were going to take care of the Eye first and THEN see to the Sword, I would imagine they made the Eye, some of them died in its making, and then the survivors made the Stone of Tear and the Callandor warding (although how they attuned it to a person who wouldn't be born for 3000 years after LTT's soul was no longer available is just an impossibility you just have to accept I think). 

 

In truth, it makes sense that the Callandor-warding would be the last thing they'd do, since they likely needed their male channelers to use it for the Eye, making the Stone, etc., just for its raw power.  Maybe they even made the Rhuidean 'dome' shielding - not sure. Once only a few (if any) male channelers were left sane, Callandor couldn't really be used safely anymore, so they warded it against other male channelers (and Ishamael, although they probably hadn't considered that) until Rand could draw it out.

 

 

[clu7ch]

Thanks for pointing that out. I missed a few things :)

 

I wish the finn's would put all the knowledge of WoT in my head so I wouldn't have to go digging for books lol.

 

And while I'm there I'll say hai to moiraine.

[Sentinel78]

I wish the finn's would put all the knowledge of WoT in my head so I wouldn't have to go digging for books lol.

 

Yeah no joke.  The Finns are the only huge 'unknown' at this point, more than Shara and/or Demandred.  If Mat's trip to Finnland only results in Moiraine being saved, it'll be a big disappointment to say the least.  Something about this trip is critical to Rand winning the Last Battle.  Min's viewing says Rand can't win without Moiraine, but that could also imply an indirect relationship to Mat's Finn-adventure.  In other words, Rand can't win without Mat or Moiraine finding something important (object, information, etc.)in Finnland, and without Mat's trip they what obtain or find out what it is.  I don't accept that Moiraine's importance is only related to further curing Rand's sanity or his dead-woman list recitation.

[Worm]

OK I'm too lazy to read all the posts or even to find a quote to back me up but can anyone tell me if I'm right when I say that Mat asked 4 questions in book 4 and had all of them answered? Or have I just gone crazy? (I'm also fairly sure that he got 4 things from the foxes, medallion,spear,memories,the hanging)

[Terez]

Yup.  And he got 3 answers to his 4th question.

[Worm]

I thought so :)

so the question is was 1 of their answers a lie?

The snakes were required to give 3 true answers but Mat asked 4 so one of the answers may not have been true/Ashanderei may have some dark secret (he didn't ask for it).

Either that or Mat is somehow able to get 4 answers from them because of something special about him. This happened in book 4 and we have had countless references to his questions/gifts, it may not be what BS meant but it still seems important to me.

[saidarisnowtainted]

When we are directed to the top of the mountain and, i think it was Asmo, says that they may be ruins up there, etc.--or that notwithstanding--isnt there an instance where ruins are seen on top of a mountain and there is something glinting in the sunlight? 

 

also wasnt there a reference to seeing someone flying really high?

[Sentinel78]

When we are directed to the top of the mountain and, i think it was Asmo, says that they may be ruins up there, etc.--or that notwithstanding--isnt there an instance where ruins are seen on top of a mountain and there is something glinting in the sunlight? 

 

From Chpts. 20-21 of Fires of Heaven:

 

High on the other side, so far up that he was not sure he was seeing what he thought, just below the snow line, stood something even stranger. Something that made the first monument of a few thousand years a commonplace. He could have sworn it was the remnants of shattered buildings, shining gray against the darker mountain, and stranger still, what appeared to be a dock of the same material, as for ships, slanting drunkenly down the mountain. If he was not imagining it, that had to date from before the Breaking. The face of the world had been changed utterly in those years. This could well have been an ocean's floor, before. He would have to ask Asmodean. Even if' he had had the time, he did not think he would want to try reaching that altitude to find out for himself.

 

and

 

"What do you know about those ruins up near the snow line? They must come from the Age of Legends."

 

Asmodean did not even glance up the mountain. "This world is very changed from the world I... went to sleep in." He sounded weary, and he shivered slightly. "What I know of what lies where, I have learned since waking." The mournful sounds of "The March of Death" rose from his harp. "That could be what is left of the city where I was born, for all I know. Shorelle was a port.'

[Aroura]

Since there is quite a bit of discussion about Callandor, and it is clearly going to figure prominently in the last battle, or at least leading up to it, there is something else I haven't seen discussed very much.  The part in the prophecies about he who takes up the sword shall follow after. the quote is:

"Into the heart he thrusts his sword, into the heart, to hold their hearts. Who draws it out shall follow after. What hand can grasp that fearful blade?"  I don't know which book it is first given in, however.

 

Anyway, so Narashma drew out the sword, Rand chose him (I still don't quite understand why, if someone would care to explain). Narishma seems to be one of the SM that is always around Rand, and appears to be Loyal and protective of him.

 

BS was asked if Narishma fulfilled the prophesy, and we got a RAFO answer.  Well...it seems to me this is a HUGE deal.  I mean, if he already fulfilled it by pulling it out and wielding it to defend them against the forsaken at SL, then surely we wouldn't have gotten a Rafo.  Narishma has been loyal, and done quite a lot of little things (like catching the male channeling in the Rebel camp), and a lot of other things. 

 

So what is Narishma's link to the sword, what has he yet to do, and how important will it be to the final outcome of the series?  We really know next to nothing about this guy anyway, even though its very likely the prophesies do indeed refer to him.

 

Its all so vague, I cannot even form a theory about it, I just see that there is a huge gap in our knowledge regarding what seems to be an important part of the prophesy and the person(s) involved.

[NetSlider]

Perhaps they used Callandor much as Rand used the CK to cleanse ALL of saidin, but they just used it to cleanse what they considered to be a small amount.

 

Moiraine stated that they made he Eye pure at the cost of their own lives, whatever that means.  It's very unclear how this was accomplished, but it couldn't be the way Rand did it because Rand essentially linked the taint to Shadar Logoth with Saidin as the wire and Saidar as the wire insulation so that the two evils would be drawn to each other and cancel each other out.  Shadar Logoth wasn't around back then, and the evil Mordeth found to create it (most likely from the Finns) likely was still in Finnland at that point (note: see BS's comments on Mordeth and the Finns for support of this).

 

Because the Aes Sedai in the Rhuidean flashback had Callandor and were going to take care of the Eye first and THEN see to the Sword, I would imagine they made the Eye, some of them died in its making, and then the survivors made the Stone of Tear and the Callandor warding (although how they attuned it to a person who wouldn't be born for 3000 years after LTT's soul was no longer available is just an impossibility you just have to accept I think). 

 

In truth, it makes sense that the Callandor-warding would be the last thing they'd do, since they likely needed their male channelers to use it for the Eye, making the Stone, etc., just for its raw power.  Maybe they even made the Rhuidean 'dome' shielding - not sure. Once only a few (if any) male channelers were left sane, Callandor couldn't really be used safely anymore, so they warded it against other male channelers (and Ishamael, although they probably hadn't considered that) until Rand could draw it out.

 

 

 

Actually (and I might be wrong about this) but I'm pretty sure Green Man says that ALL of AS dies making the EYE. If that's the case, they could not have Calandor with them bc than there was no one who could carrie it back. Unless one of the heroes of legend found the Green Man and took Calandor from him and delivered it to the stone (which is very unlikely).

[NetSlider]

From the wheel of time encyclopedia :

 

"ummary

 

Rand POV - Moiraine, Lan, Rand, Perrin, Mat, Loial, Egwene and Nynaeve accompany the Green Man to a cave. Mat asks about the Tree of Life. The Green Man gives Rand an odd look1 and says he has not seen it in two thousand years.2 He tells them the Eye of the World was made in the first days of the Breaking. It was made by a hundred men and women working together and they died in the process. Guarding the Eye of the World was not what the Green Man was made for.3 The Green Man stays behind while the others enter the cave and walk to a strange pool. Moiraine says the Eye of the World has enough power to mend the seals on the Dark One's prison or to break it open. It is the pure essence of saidin. No one living knows why it was made. When they leave the cave two men approach, Aginor and Balthamel. Aginor wears a dark green cloak and sounds like Ba'alzamon, extremely arrogant and greedy. He was close behind Ishamael and Lews Therin in strength. Balthamel wears a dark gray cloak and a grinning mask.4 Aginor says Mat guided them, "an old thing, an old friend, an old enemy".5 He says "the seals weaken, some of us are bound no longer, like Ishamael we walk the world again."6 Looking toward the Eye of the World, Aginor says "so long without."7 Lan starts towards Aginor and is thrown back. Nynaeve lunges at him and Balthamel grabs her. As Aginor looks at Nynaeve he licks his lips and says, "I have nearly forgotten the pleasures of the flesh, but Balthamel remembers much." Aginor says he might teach Rand. The Green Man arrives and tells them to leave. Balthamel starts burning him and the Green Man grabs him. Before the Green Man collapses, Balthamel begins rotting and dies. As the Green Man dies he touches an acorn and an oak tree grows. Moiraine tries to slow Aginor but he easily escapes her weaves. Everyone runs and Aginor follows Rand."

 

Chapter 50

[Crael123]

I wish the finn's would put all the knowledge of WoT in my head so I wouldn't have to go digging for books lol.

 

Yeah no joke.  The Finns are the only huge 'unknown' at this point, more than Shara and/or Demandred.  If Mat's trip to Finnland only results in Moiraine being saved, it'll be a big disappointment to say the least.  Something about this trip is critical to Rand winning the Last Battle.  Min's viewing says Rand can't win without Moiraine, but that could also imply an indirect relationship to Mat's Finn-adventure.  In other words, Rand can't win without Mat or Moiraine finding something important (object, information, etc.)in Finnland, and without Mat's trip they what obtain or find out what it is.  I don't accept that Moiraine's importance is only related to further curing Rand's sanity or his dead-woman list recitation.

 

where does it say rand cant win without moirane?

[NetSlider]

I wish the finn's would put all the knowledge of WoT in my head so I wouldn't have to go digging for books lol.

 

Yeah no joke.  The Finns are the only huge 'unknown' at this point, more than Shara and/or Demandred.  If Mat's trip to Finnland only results in Moiraine being saved, it'll be a big disappointment to say the least.  Something about this trip is critical to Rand winning the Last Battle.  Min's viewing says Rand can't win without Moiraine, but that could also imply an indirect relationship to Mat's Finn-adventure.  In other words, Rand can't win without Mat or Moiraine finding something important (object, information, etc.)in Finnland, and without Mat's trip they what obtain or find out what it is.  I don't accept that Moiraine's importance is only related to further curing Rand's sanity or his dead-woman list recitation.

 

where does it say rand cant win without moirane?

 

One of Min's viewings, she thinks that she was always right except when it came to Moirane.