The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Shazzai]

Something odd popped into my head slightly off topic.  Could Laras be Messana?  Your average cook knowing a Black Sister (Verin) and having a hidey-hole and the right poison...?  Something going on with her, can't remember what book, but Min suffering through hair, dresses, and makeup in the earlier books noted that the woman talked of being a beauty, and odd things about how the cook could move and ruled with that spoon as if it were a scepter.  Do we have actual quote that Messana is an Aes sedai?

 

The problem is that Laras has been in the tower (and fat) for as long as Siuan can remember.  I think the line is in TSR right before Siuan is deposed.  I don't have my copy with me or I'd look it up.

[a5m]

Laras didn't have the right poison. She had the right tea to make the poison go down sweetly.

[Blackhoof]

She probably just helps girls escape, thats all.

[Sharaman]

Something odd popped into my head slightly off topic.  Could Laras be Messana?  Your average cook knowing a Black Sister (Verin) and having a hidey-hole and the right poison...?  Something going on with her, can't remember what book, but Min suffering through hair, dresses, and makeup in the earlier books noted that the woman talked of being a beauty, and odd things about how the cook could move and ruled with that spoon as if it were a scepter.  Do we have actual quote that Messana is an Aes sedai?

 

Been discussed to death in the Mesaana threads.

Answer is "no"

1) Laras has been there in the WT since New Spring. She was very pretty before she put on weight

2) She's known to everyone and in constant sight of large numbers of people (cooks, maids, servants, novices, AS) through most of the day

3) She's fat and always wears white cotton shifts in the kitchen. When Alviarin summons Mesaana ,who arrives instantly during lunch-hour, Mesaana is dressed in bronze green silk.

4) Alviarin finds Mesaana looking vaguely familiar when Shaidar strips her. This strongly suggests M is disguised as somebody who looks like her

5) Graendal seems to know who exactly Mesaana is

5) Brandon's statement "there is a way to beat the Oath Rod" about Mesaana doesn't make sense if Mesaana isn't AS, since only the AS have to swear.

 

 

[DemandredFO]

Sure, she's no ordinary friend of the dark, or even Black Ajah, she's a chosen

[Paerish Swar]

Something odd popped into my head slightly off topic.  Could Laras be Messana?  Your average cook knowing a Black Sister (Verin) and having a hidey-hole and the right poison...?  Something going on with her, can't remember what book, but Min suffering through hair, dresses, and makeup in the earlier books noted that the woman talked of being a beauty, and odd things about how the cook could move and ruled with that spoon as if it were a scepter.  Do we have actual quote that Messana is an Aes sedai?

The problem is that Laras has been in the tower (and fat) for as long as Siuan can remember.  I think the line is in TSR right before Siuan is deposed.  I don't have my copy with me or I'd look it up.

She probably just helps girls escape, thats all.

 

I've always thought that Laras was the Kin's main contact in the Tower.  She has daily contact with all the Novices and even with the Accepted at fairly regular intervals.  She probably knows as much about what's going on with all of the Tower's initiates as the Mistress of Novices, if not more in some areas.  And we know she has a special place in her heart for willful young women.  With all the other oddities, especially her cubby hole and her knowledge of how to spirit people off the island, she would be the perfect conductor of the Kin's "underground railroad."  Verin would totally be able to figure that out about Laras, and would likely greatly respect her for it (them both being "double-agents" and all).

 

That's just my 2 cents about Laras.

[mossman87]

Something odd popped into my head slightly off topic.  Could Laras be Messana?  Your average cook knowing a Black Sister (Verin) and having a hidey-hole and the right poison...?  Something going on with her, can't remember what book, but Min suffering through hair, dresses, and makeup in the earlier books noted that the woman talked of being a beauty, and odd things about how the cook could move and ruled with that spoon as if it were a scepter.  Do we have actual quote that Messana is an Aes sedai?

The problem is that Laras has been in the tower (and fat) for as long as Siuan can remember.  I think the line is in TSR right before Siuan is deposed.  I don't have my copy with me or I'd look it up.

She probably just helps girls escape, thats all.

 

I've always thought that Laras was the Kin's main contact in the Tower.  She has daily contact with all the Novices and even with the Accepted at fairly regular intervals.  She probably knows as much about what's going on with all of the Tower's initiates as the Mistress of Novices, if not more in some areas.  And we know she has a special place in her heart for willful young women.  With all the other oddities, especially her cubby hole and her knowledge of how to spirit people off the island, she would be the perfect conductor of the Kin's "underground railroad."  Verin would totally be able to figure that out about Laras, and would likely greatly respect her for it (them both being "double-agents" and all).

 

That's just my 2 cents about Laras.

 

Yeah a lot of people think Laras works with the Kin.

 

I mean, if you think about it logically.. *maybe* all those girls found their way to the Kin randomly.. or just *maybe* one of the women with a friggin trapdoor in their kitchen, who has shown the knack for letting youths escape maybe working for them.

 

I don't think she's working for them in the sense of, "Okay any female lets get them out of here, screw the aes'sedai.", just in a more of an Underground Railroad compassion route.

[WolfDragonFox]

I like that, honestly never heard the theory of Laras w/ the Kin though it crossed my mind, i never felt strongly enough to voice it, but now hearing others actually say what i was thinking it makes a bit more sense now...lol, but this def isn't the big unnoticed thing right?  Has anyone gotten a confirmation on the "thing" we all don't seem to notice?

[Grumbert]

I'm really keen on Demandred being in Shara. Shara has been mentioned quite a few times, and I'm sure that the story will turn there soon. Why create a huge nation and then leave it out of the plot almost entirely?

[JakeBarnes]

Because of the "somewhere in books 4-6" quote, I'm pretty sure AR to Demandred is excluded.  He didn't show up until the LoC prologue, and even casual readers would pick up on that.

 

Also, AR to Shara, or reports of war there is excluded. 

[Entretamis]

ok just finished LoC. I was just able to think of one other thing that is in book 4 and 6, but still something that comes about other books.

 

Fain can some how control shadowspwans, however at the end of book 4 he has a fade tied up and forces him into a deal, in the middle of book six he is still comanding this same fade. i think in book six the fade smiles as well. IDK how important this is, but is just something i have found.

[neugebms]

Looonnngggg time lurker, first time poster.  Like many, I've considered many of the theories and currently don't have a favorite per se.  Luckers, what you are doing is highly appreciated with compiling all of this into one post.

 

The following thought though occurred to me.  We could spin our wheels from her until eternity (read late November) trying to figure this out.  Will it help to look at it from the reverse end of the problem.

 

Brandon says it's, "more important than who killed you know who..."  Should we ask ourselves which issues would be more important than that which are unresolved, or at least those we have no good suspicion about, and are applicable to the 4-6 book time frame...?  Might help a little bit...

 

The problem with this is, the BUT could be something we have no or little exposure to yet (ie. the sisaiwayman and why this could be so big a deal) so this viewpoint might not be as strong as I initially thought.

 

Toss it around...

[Morsker]

An easy way for something to be more important than Asmodean's death is for it to have anything to do with the Last Battle. But the Last Battle is so mysterious that this doesn't narrow things down hardly at all. We can easily have, "The unseen eyes, oh, they do something in the Last Battle," or "Entering T'A'R in the flesh is important in the last battle!" etc., and that'll suffice to outdo Asomodean, but it doesn't get us anywhere.

[neugebms]

I suspect it is something between Asmodean and the Last Battle in importance...

[Sharaman]

Asmo's death was more a mystery than of particular narrative importance.

RJ just wanted to write him out of the story; who killed him seemed to have been irrelevant to the subsequent plot. It's only because of the hoo-hah that Brandon will write in a "solution". 

 

[ethame]

What about the dice in Mat's head?

 

I have no idea when it started, or if it's been discussed at length but it sure fits with the Mistborn thing...it is definitely ongoing.

 

I don't recall this being discussed in the thread.

 

edit: I looked at the compilation and didn't see it as ruled out.  It fits the ongoing principal, no idea if it's been discussed on forums at any length, I don't know what the revelation would mean, but knowing more details about it might be good, it is present in almost every book since it started happening to Mat, and I don't know what the potential impact it...additionally it seems to fit the Mistbron-like part, it's something in Mat's head with an unknown reason (at least to me)

[shadowkiller_001]

when did that Asha'man (Flinn?) heal rand's wound by playing the two evils against one another?

if that was in books 4-6 that could be a big deal, that seems to be foreshadowing for a way to beat the DO.

 

sorry if this has been brought up,

i haven't been on in a while.

[neugebms]

When did Matt start hearing the dice?  I don't have access to the books right now, but this has potential.  I couldn't figure it out by the summaries in Encylopdia-wot, but I figure it's gotta be TDR, TSR, TFoH.  I vaguely remember maybe he heard the dice when he was leaving Tar Valon either when he was dicing or when he was ambushed...

[ethame]

When did Matt start hearing the dice?  I don't have access to the books right now, but this has potential.  I couldn't figure it out by the summaries in Encylopdia-wot, but I figure it's gotta be TDR, TSR, TFoH.  I vaguely remember maybe he heard the dice when he was leaving Tar Valon either when he was dicing or when he was ambushed...

 

I don't know, I was doing a re-listen on my audiobooks at work and it occurred to me that it sure seems to fit.  I'm on Knife of Dreams and don't have the others, did a quick search on my break and didn't find any dice in his head information either.

[ethame]

When did Matt start hearing the dice?  I don't have access to the books right now, but this has potential.  I couldn't figure it out by the summaries in Encylopdia-wot, but I figure it's gotta be TDR, TSR, TFoH.  I vaguely remember maybe he heard the dice when he was leaving Tar Valon either when he was dicing or when he was ambushed...

 

I don't know, I was doing a re-listen on my audiobooks at work and it occurred to me that it sure seems to fit.  I'm on Knife of Dreams and don't have the others, did a quick search on my break and didn't find any dice in his head information either.

 

I don't know now, according to EWoT the first time he hears them is at the end of TDR when he's about to enter The Stone.  According to this he doesn't know what it means until LoC.  I Like this idea a lot still though, seems to fit everything but the 'starts in books 4-6 part' unfortunately.

 

From EncyclopediaWOT:

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/characters/m/mat.html#dice

# TDR,Ch52 � Mat feels the dice as he plans to enter the Stone of Tear.

# TFoH,Ch42 � Mat feels the dice as he plans to leave Rand's camp near Cairhien before the battle with the Shaido.

# TFoH,Ch44 � Mat feels the dice as he leads his small group through the battle.

# TFoH,Ch51 � Mat feels the dice as he leads the Band against Andorans in Cairhien. It is almost like a warning that there is a fight over the next hill.

# TFoH,Ch51 � Mat feels the dice after he kills Melindhra.

# TFoH,Ch54 � Mat feels the dice as Rand prepares to Skim to Caemlyn.

# LoC,Ch47 � Mat feels the dice in Mol Hara Square outside the Tarasin Palace. He knew that sensation well. "Sometimes he felt it when his luck was running strong in the gambling. It was always there when a battle was in the offing. And it seemed to come when there was a vital decision to make, the sort where the wrong choice might well get his throat cut." They stop when he enters The Wandering Woman.

[shinerfan]

Yeah, I think the dice have to be explained eventually. I thought I had them figured out but apparently RJ said in an interview that Mat's luck is not related to the connected dice ter'angreal from tDR. Even with that remark it still seems too similar to not be somehow connected. A dice ter'angreal that is believed to alter chance in some way makes one appearance and then Mat begins to hear dice in his head whenever there is a momentous event? Maybe they're not related to his luck but instead warn him that he is about to choose a path between several possible futures? Wrong book though for tBUT in any event.

[Luckers]

The Power Related BuT's are up. In particular I'm curious on your thoughts on the Warding of the Great Holding and the Loss of the Agelessness. I did alot of expanding on those, and have probably made some foolish points. Thought?

 

edit: I looked at the compilation and didn't see it as ruled out.  It fits the ongoing principal, no idea if it's been discussed on forums at any length, I don't know what the revelation would mean, but knowing more details about it might be good, it is present in almost every book since it started happening to Mat, and I don't know what the potential impact it...additionally it seems to fit the Mistbron-like part, it's something in Mat's head with an unknown reason (at least to me)

 

It's on my list for the Miscellanious Section, though I will be listing it with the Other Thoughts/Problems addendum as: First mentioned in book three, so not the BUT. As well as pointing out that it hardly went unnoticed--unless someone can point out indications of the cause of the dice, or something in books 4-6 that indicates they are not what we think they are, then they can't be the BUT.

 

It's an interesting issue though, one I do hope to see explained. Maybe in the encyclopaedia.

 

Luckers, what you are doing is highly appreciated with compiling all of this into one post.

 

Thanks mate.  ;D

[Terez]

Yeah, I just noticed the FAQ you made on this mystery.  Nifty.  I haven't made up my mind yet, but I've got a couple of ideas I like.

[wipe]

To Luckers

 

Love your BUT theory thread, but you asked for comments. I just wanted to say that in all your writings on Moghedien, you call her Moghedian. Not a very big deal, but I guess a perfectionist as you would like to have your names spelled correctly.

 

Looking forward to the discussion created by your post- fantastic summary and job. Thanks.

[Luckers]

To Luckers

 

Love your BUT theory thread, but you asked for comments. I just wanted to say that in all your writings on Moghedien, you call her Moghedian. Not a very big deal, but I guess a perfectionist as you would like to have your names spelled correctly.

 

Looking forward to the discussion created by your post- fantastic summary and job. Thanks.

 

Yeah, thanks for the FYI. I'll fix it when I get a chance.