The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[MatrixM]

Three, actually. New Spring.

[Vulgir]

it does seem very weird in thought that there has only been 1, but look at it in context. The Aeil have great pride, and are sworn to "spit in siteblinders eye", and je'ie'toh (spelling) which they are raised by seems to breed against becoming a DF, if you raise the point Why have we seen only 1 DF Aeil, then why not why havnt we seen any Two rivers DF?  The answer may simply be that they are two isolated places, "the backend of forever", and could simply be out of the current of the dark flows.

 

exactly some cultures are less likely to go to the shadow

[Sentinel78]

Oh, I just remembered the 20 or so Aiel Darkfriends Sammael dropped in Mat's tent via gateway in Lord of Chaos to assassinate him during the whole 'fake' war.  There's your Aiel darkfriends.

[Sharaman]

Without reading all 19 pages, did anybody already guess:

 

 

Aiel darkfriends.

 

We already know that Aiel darkfriends exist. Melindhra was one. If you can find any evidence that a particular Aiel may be a darkfriend, now we might be getting somewhere.

That is the whole point.  With the thousands and thousands of Aiel, we have only seen one DF.  Where are the rest?  I bet at least one of the main Wise Ones is.

I've posted here on this topic

To repeat

1) Rahvin is ready when Rand attacks in FoH -Moggy also knows - Amys knows the time and place for certain - so do hundreds of other Aiel

2)LoC Aiel gated in to attack Mat

3) Katerine Alruddin escapes

4) Sorilea - Bair have seen wards removed from Cadsuane's box - Sorilea is quick with weaves

5) We've never seen a PoV from Amys, Rhuarc, Sorilea, Bair, Melaine, Bael, etc

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

Isam was Malkieri, Luc was Cairheinin/Andoran.

 

The Wise Ones have been wrestling with the problem of the Dragon Reborn for generations.  They know that he's fated to break them and spend them like water on sand and that only a remnant of a remnant will remain once the dust settles.  Their focus would be on insuring that this remnant of a remnant would be as large as possible.

 

One way to do that might be to have at least one clan fight for the other side.  Then, no matter who wins, some Aiel would remain.

 

When Rand hears the rumor that Morgase is dead and decides to take out Rahvin, he only tells Asmodean, Moiraine, Egwene, Aviendha, and Mat.  He sends word to the Clan chiefs to be ready to march in the morning, but he does not tell them where.

 

Aviendha makes her nightly report to Amys, making Amys the only outsider to learn of the actual plan.  Amys is married to Rhuarc who is chief of the Taardad Aiel.

 

When Nynaeve captures Moghedien in T'a'R the next morning, Moggy knows all of the specifics.  The most direct route to that knowledge is from Amys.

 

Amys, and by extension Rhuarc and all of the Taardad being Darkfriends would be Very Bad for Team Light.

[Vulgir]

Oh, I just remembered the 20 or so Aiel Darkfriends Sammael dropped in Mat's tent via gateway in Lord of Chaos to assassinate him during the whole 'fake' war.  There's your Aiel darkfriends.

 

There is no proof they are DF's they could just be shadio

 

 

If Rhuarc is a DF or Amy's ill run naked through the streets covered in green jello singing I'm an oscar meyer weiner.

 

If you coudl quote what moggy knows id like to see exactly what it is, since she has been spying on all the forsaken in TAR and probably learned it all from that

 

 

[Bob T Dwarf]

I've posted here on this topic

To repeat

1) Rahvin is ready when Rand attacks in FoH -Moggy also knows - Amys knows the time and place for certain - so do hundreds of other Aiel

2)LoC Aiel gated in to attack Mat

3) Katerine Alruddin escapes

4) Sorilea - Bair have seen wards removed from Cadsuane's box - Sorilea is quick with weaves

5) We've never seen a PoV from Amys, Rhuarc, Sorilea, Bair, Melaine, Bael, etc

 

 

Rahvin would have been ready regardless.  In the Prologue, when Lanfear first approaches him about the plan to lure Rand into attacking Sam, he tells her that he will not have her or any of the others trespassing on his territory ever again.  He would ward Caemlyn against any channeler and shoot first and ask questions later.

 

The wards that Rand's attack trips would have fired no matter what channeler, including any of the other Forsaken, had ever shown up in Caemlyn.  That's also a prime reason why Graendal would never have been there on that day or any other.

[Sentinel78]

If you coudl quote what moggy knows id like to see exactly what it is, since she has been spying on all the forsaken in TAR and probably learned it all from that

 

From Chpt 54 of FoH, right after Lanfear/Moiraine head to Finnland:

 

Words spilled from Moghedien’s mouth, and her tongue flickered out to wet her lips continually. “Al’Thor means to go after Rahvin. Today. This morning. Because he thinks Rahvin killed Morgase. I don’t know whether he did or not, but al’Thor believes it. But Rahvin never trusted Lanfear. He never trusted any of them. Why should he? He thought it all might be some trap set for him, so he has laid a trap of his own. He has set Wards through Caemlyn so if a man channels a spark he will know. Al’Thor will walk right into it. He almost certainly already has. I think he meant to leave Cairhien right after sunrise. I had no part of it. It was none of it my doing. I-”

 

If Amys is a DF, it's a stretch to think ALL of the Rhuarc's Aiel are... I just don't buy this.

 

[Kuston]

Was it book 6 or 7 when matt and the band found that group of slaughtered tinkers with the message for rand that wasnt there... *tell the dragon reborn...*

[saidarisnowtainted]

Didnt Rand make it rain in the waste in TSR?  is this the first occasion where the weather acts unexpectedly? 

[Vulgir]

Very interesting Sentinal very interesting. Now i hate to mention it, but this could also be part of who killed Asmodean then since someone who was with Rand told Moggy, and would have incentive to kill Asmodean ect.

 

The slaughtered tinker idea has been disproven its on The 138 post list

[Bob T Dwarf]

If Amys is a DF, it's a stretch to think ALL of the Rhuarc's Aiel are... I just don't buy this.

 

 

Jordan was pretty good about not making any group monolithic.  So, no not every single Taardad would be a DF.  Nor would all of those who aren't follow Rhuarc no matter what he ordered.  But, people being people, a large percentage would let the authority figures make their moral judgements for them.

[Sharaman]

Rahvin would have been ready regardless.  In the Prologue, when Lanfear first approaches him about the plan to lure Rand into attacking Sam, he tells her that he will not have her or any of the others trespassing on his territory ever again.  He would ward Caemlyn against any channeler and shoot first and ask questions later.

 

The wards that Rand's attack trips would have fired no matter what channeler, including any of the other Forsaken, had ever shown up in Caemlyn.  That's also a prime reason why Graendal would never have been there on that day or any other.

The street around the Caemlyn Palace are cleared of bystanders. There are trollocs waiting in ambush. It's not just wards - Rahvin is completely prepared and at a level of alert, which cannot be indefinitely maintained. So he knows pretty exactly when it's happening. So does Moggy when she's forced to speak by Nyn.

 

[EbanHopwil]

I think what BS is talking about is more of an overarching concept than a single item like Mat's hat.  I don't know how much it has been discussed, but could it be something like the concept behind Mat remembering people's deaths after they went into Finnland?  Have there been discussions about Mat's self-perceived links to the Finns and how this relates to the rescue attempt?  Just a humble thought.

[Aleron688]

I think what BS is talking about is more of an overarching concept than a single item like Mat's hat.  I don't know how much it has been discussed, but could it be something like the concept behind Mat remembering people's deaths after they went into Finnland?  Have there been discussions about Mat's self-perceived links to the Finns and how this relates to the rescue attempt?  Just a humble thought.

 

yes indeedy there have :)

 

several books worth in fact lol

[ClubCaved]

Originally, I thought it might be an *angreal from Rhuidena or maybe that ruined seaport that Rand and Asmodean glimpse high up in the mountains near Jangai Pass but my thoughts have changed on the matter. After reading the past few pages, I'd toss in something new. The Snakes and Foxes have been thoroughly discussed, but what about the description of the gameboard? The game itself shows up in Book 4 and although glancing references to its appearance in the following books, the only detailed description is in LOC. Maybe the gameboard is the only true route through the Tower Of Ghenjei.

[Aleron688]

can you describe it for us? i dont have the books with me at work.. so i can't look it up.

 

if you had the exact quote.. that would be wonderful! :)

 

nonetheless, id be interested to see what we can glean from the description of the board!

[Vulgir]

IT looks like a spider web correct?

[Jareth Bixx]

In reference to the "unnoticed secret" from books 4-6:

Perhaps it has been mentioned already in this thread, or even consensus reached on what it may actually be(20 pages of forum posts is a lot to catch up on), but when did bubbles of evil first start manifesting?

 

It seems to me they really started showing up in tSR, though I may be mistaken. Do bubbles of evil, the Dark One's touch on the world, have anything to do with Rand's (or Mat or Perrin's) taveren nature? It does appear as the time line progresses (and especially noticeable in tGS), that the further into madness Rand slips and the "harder" he becomes, the more apparent and blatant the physical manifestations of the DO's touch are on the world around Rand.

 

For instance, as he is preparing to leave Bandar Eban, having decided there is nothing more he can do for them, essentially abandoning them, ALL of the food he has brought spoils.

Is there a connection between Rand, the perception of the DO's touch and bubbles of evil?

 

I realize that bubbles of evil in general have been discussed, but perhaps the root cause of them has been missed. Of course the increase in DO activity in the land is likely due to the dwindling number of intact seals, and again perhaps all the rearranging of buildings etc is due to balefire use...

 

 

[Aleron688]

IT looks like a spider web correct?

 

This is what wikipedia says... the source of all knowledge in the world

 

Snakes and Foxes is a children's game that cannot be won without breaking the rules. Almost every child enjoys it until they realize this (TSR, Ch. 28).

 

The game is played on a board with a web of lines on it, indicating which lines allowed movement in only one direction and which both. There are two lots of ten discs, one set inked with wavy lines representing the snakes and another inked with triangles representing the foxes; players have black discs. They begin the game by saying "Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind" while drawing a triangle with a wavy line through it in the air. The purpose of the game is to find a way to the circle in the middle of the board, but most of the time you do not make it as far as the outer edge.

 

On each of their turn, the snakes and foxes get to roll six dice carved with triangles and wavy lines. This means that they can take zero to six steps, and whatever number is rolled, you have to move their discs accordingly toward yours by the shortest path. If a snake or fox lands on a field occupied by a player, he or she is out of the game. And as long as the rules are followed, this always happens.

 

Historians believe this game is an ancient metaphor of how to deal with the Aelfinn and Eelfinn (LoC, Ch. 33; KoD, Glossary).

 

According to Birgitte, the sign that is drawn in the air at the beginning of each game opens the Tower of Ghenjei and lets a gateway to the lands of the Aelfinn and Eelfinn appear (KoD, Ch. 10).

 

sorry for the long quote... it's the whole article.

 

and after reading it, i dont think we can know how it is important other than to wait and see what happens in the ToG

[smileyman]

In reference to the "unnoticed secret" from books 4-6:

Perhaps it has been mentioned already in this thread, or even consensus reached on what it may actually be(20 pages of forum posts is a lot to catch up on), but when did bubbles of evil first start manifesting?

 

It seems to me they really started showing up in tSR, though I may be mistaken. Do bubbles of evil, the Dark One's touch on the world, have anything to do with Rand's (or Mat or Perrin's) taveren nature? It does appear as the time line progresses (and especially noticeable in tGS), that the further into madness Rand slips and the "harder" he becomes, the more apparent and blatant the physical manifestations of the DO's touch are on the world around Rand.

 

It's been discussed. Rand is the Fisher King, who is tied to the land. Until the Fisher King is healed, the land can't be healed.

[Aleron688]

 

It's been discussed. Rand is the Fisher King, who is tied to the land. Until the Fisher King is healed, the land can't be healed.

 

this. someone post the list of what has been discussed and disproven already back from pg 12!

 

In fact....

 

Moggy creating Bridgette

Lilwein Shipless

Egwene’s Use of need in TAR

Nynaeve and Elyane using Need in TAR

Fel talking with Rand

Farstrider in Grendals lair

The Tinker’s Song

Message in blood from the Tinkers to “Tell the Dragon Reborn”

Demandred Massing Armies

Perrin and Finnland

The Ghoolam

Demandred’s interaction with the DO

Sistters sent to recapture Taim

Rest of the 13 BA

Who killed Sahra Covenry

Graendel meeting with Ilutrade

Doorway Ter”angreal

Fel’s Note to Min

TO live you must become Morridin “Die”

Morroianes wishes to the Finn

Rand’s Effect on the Weather “The Fisher King Theme”

The sword “Justice”

Taim Setting up the BT

The BA setting up Taim as the Dragon

War in Shara

Mind Traps

Moirraines Letters to Tom and Rand

Why Matt got the Ashandarei

Matt’s medallion

Avendesora

Missing Theodrin

 

let it be known that these things ARE NOT POSSIBLE!

[smileyman]

What about the alternate worlds? Rand and Hurin travel along them for awhile. I don't know how they would impact the plot in any way though since they were only mentioned in one book.

[Kinsbane]

I dunno how viable this is but Rand got the two dragon tat's in Rhuidian,

and they've been mentioned constantly in the books since,

 

And now one of the dragon tattoo's is incomplete, which would mean that the prophecies aren't completed unless it only matters if they were whole at one time.

 

and he's missing a heron too

 

....................................and a hand

 

Doesn't seem very viable to me. Rand was already marked four times by the time he lost his hand - this doesn't negate the Prophecy, as the events that the Prophecy talks about are tied to the Dragon through the sybmols of the heron and the Dragons on his arms. Three of the four events have happened, I believe.

 

I concur, the prophecy was for him to be marked.. not for him to stay marked. Which was the fourth event?

 

I honestly don't think the fourth event has happened yet, and I believe that the first Dragon on his arm was for remembering where his blood really came from, which most of the Aiel (save for chiefs and Wise Ones) have forgotten.

[HighLordXanthus]

How about a new idea?  I certainly do not remember it ever being discussed, except in the most casual way.

 

Basic workings of the power.  What can and cannot be done.  I know there are comments made by rand I think in tFoH when weaving for skimming.  Something about when making the platform to carry them all to Andor.  He makes the platform to the same size as the courtyard, then adds another ring of stones making it larger, until he begins to sink.  He brings it back until the floor firms and realizes he cannot make it much larger then his first attempt.  He questions how much of what he does is limits were set by himself.  This is also true for other things.  There is a random ashaman somewhere that has a "bar" where he cannot channel pass like 50 paces because he does not believe he can.  And aviendha unable to make a proper gateway, because the weave she first used was different.  This line of thought could lead to Rand figuring out how to seal the bore.