LTT is not mad

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Hi,

 

It says quite clearly in the first prologue that LTT has the madness removed (by moridin no less) so he can see what destruction he caused. He then got sad and killed himself.

 

Why then does everyone insist on calling LTT mad, he isn't, he was cured. He was mad for a time, yes, but he was cured.

 

Why does no one else ever try and cure the maddness?

 

Sure in Rand's head LTT is "mad" with grief but he is not taint mad, such an important distinction I feel annoyed it has never been mentioned.

[OptimusPrime]

Look at pretty much anything he says to Rand

[Amayahoshi]

Didn't Elan Morin also say he could grant him 'temporary sanity' or something along those lines?

 

I don't think theres proof either way wether or not LTT was sane when he created Dragonmount. Sure, the wording implies that he was sane when he did, but I haven't come across any concrete evidence either way.

[OptimusPrime]

Its Lews Therins ravings in Rands head that make me think hes insane

[Rocky_Outcrop]

People who are so struck by grief they can not see the world in the same light often sound insane. Many many of the things he'd say I'd agree with, especially when he talked about killing off the white tower, good idea in my view. ;)

 

I honestly never viewed him as insane despite what he'd say in Rand's head. I only ever thought he was incredibly depressed. This is obviously bad mental health but not insanity. Or if it is insanity I thought that it was from his actions not from the taint.

 

I mean he didn't ever say anything particularly insane, can you point out anything that was really insane OptimusPrime? "Kill them all" things like that don't sound that insane given the circumstances, death being viewed by Rand and LTT as a blessing.

[OptimusPrime]

I mean he didn't ever say anything particularly insane, can you point out anything that was really insane OptimusPrime? "Kill them all" things like that don't sound that insane given the circumstances, death being viewed by Rand and LTT as a blessing

 

Lews Therin thinks Rand is the voice in his head. How could he go all this time thinking that? Rand and Lews Therin are NOT the same person, meaning Lews Therins life experiences are different to Rands; this means Lews Therin would react to most things differently than Rand does and would thus give Lews Therin ten million opportunites to realize he isnt in control of the body he sees from. Think about it; at Shadar Logoth I think, Lews Therin screams "why cant I move my hands." Any sane person would have realized there and then, if not before, that the body wasnt theirs. Lews Therin still doesnt get it.

 

Ranting and raving about killing Ashaman and Aes Sedai could be classed as insanity, coming from one of two people who needed them to perform the task they were born for. Lews Therin knows that channelers are needed-NECESSARY-for the Last Battle but he goes on about killing them even before signs of betrayal start showing up.

[ohaitharguiz]

KILL THEM, MUST KILL THEM NOW. QUICKLY! *CACKLES MADLY*

 

Yeah, perfectly normal.

[Beren]

People who are so struck by grief they can not see the world in the same light often sound insane. Many many of the things he'd say I'd agree with, especially when he talked about killing off the white tower, good idea in my view. ;)

 

I honestly never viewed him as insane despite what he'd say in Rand's head. I only ever thought he was incredibly depressed. This is obviously bad mental health but not insanity. Or if it is insanity I thought that it was from his actions not from the taint.

 

I mean he didn't ever say anything particularly insane, can you point out anything that was really insane OptimusPrime? "Kill them all" things like that don't sound that insane given the circumstances, death being viewed by Rand and LTT as a blessing.

 

Way to think differently!  ;)

[moroten]

Ishy cant cure the madness from LTT, he only gives him a temporary moment of clarity, so yes LTT is mad.

[crazyfool]

LTT is for sure crazy. There are so many times in the books where it says straight out how crazy he sounds. He actually thinks that Rand is in his head saying something along the lines of, "You know I wouldn't mind you in my head so much if you weren't so crazy." (not sure if thats exactly what he says)

[Sylvia]

One of the things that I was pondering is that maybe LTT is hearing Rand in his head, just when he was living. I mean if people are being reborn and what-not, why can't there also be cross-dimensional blabbering...or however you want to put it. Maybe LTT is hearing Rand while LTT himself is going mad and breaking the world.

[brando]

.

[OptimusPrime]

That keeps popping up

[Blackhoof]

brando.... man of few words.  :D

[Pug]

LTT was cured by Ishamael and then killed himself in his grief. Now it's possible that the madness took over him again as he was killing himself, and it's also possible that he died free of madness, and therefore isn't mad.

 

He might say things that would make him appear mad, but don't we all say crazy things.

 

I don't know if he's mad or not, I just think he should hurry up and merge with Rand that way Rand has all of LTT's knowledge. This might happen in book 12 but I don't know as I haven't read it yet.

 

ciao.

[OptimusPrime]

Lews Therin channeled a hell of a lot unaided, way more than he or anyone could handle. It was all tainted.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

Ok so maybe it was temporary sanity when he killed himself and not permanent - BUT HE DIED.

 

What is there, anywhere, that suggests that the taint's madness would go beyond death?

 

If LTT was not supposed to be in Rand's head then he would think it was his own body, or at least be confused. If you look down and see hands, who's are they? They are your own. If you see through eyes and see a body that is attached to those eyes then you would say "Why are you in my head" to any other voice you heard. You would also be confused as to why you can't control your hands, hence the S.Logoth event.

 

I am not suggesting for a second that I don't see madness, I am suggesting that this is not the incurable taint madness but other forms of mental health problems that are so severe the end result is the same as madness but it is not the cause.

 

Does anyone understand my point? I think some of you do but just don't agree and others are responding without understanding what it is that I am saying.

 

[Blackhoof]

I still reckon LTT is bonkers.

[OptimusPrime]

What is there, anywhere, that suggests that the taint's madness would go beyond death?

 

The same thing that suggests any kind of madness carries over beyond death. Its possible that Lews Therin is taint mad, or not. Im not bothered about the cause of that, hes loopy through and through.

 

If LTT was not supposed to be in Rand's head then he would think it was his own body, or at least be confused. If you look down and see hands, who's are they? They are your own. If you see through eyes and see a body that is attached to those eyes then you would say "Why are you in my head" to any other voice you heard. You would also be confused as to why you can't control your hands, hence the S.Logoth event.

 

As I said earlier, by the time Lews Therin couldnt move hands taht werent his, there would have been ten million other times when he would have realised he wasnt in control of Rands body. Can you really believe Lews Therin would have done absolutely everything the way Rand did up until that point? That is a massive stretch.

[Nae Bliss]

One of the things that I was pondering is that maybe LTT is hearing Rand in his head, just when he was living. I mean if people are being reborn and what-not, why can't there also be cross-dimensional blabbering...or however you want to put it. Maybe LTT is hearing Rand while LTT himself is going mad and breaking the world.

That's what i've been thinking for a long, long time. I just never said anything cause I thought no one else had the same view as me.

[Sylvia]

That's what i've been thinking for a long, long time. I just never said anything cause I thought no one else had the same view as me.

 

YAY! I'm glad someone else agrees with me =)

[Nae Bliss]

That's what i've been thinking for a long, long time. I just never said anything cause I thought no one else had the same view as me.

 

YAY! I'm glad someone else agrees with me =)

 

I figured that since Rand heard LTT and he talked to him and he sometimes talked back why couldn't he hear Rand before he died, in the "moment of clarity" he heard his future incarnation, or mabey it was before Elan Morin "healed him" and he was still kinda crazy. I don't know why he hears Rand but I'm convinced that he did hear him. I've also thought that maybe in one of the other worlds(portal stone) that stuff happened a bit different and LTT didn't kill himself or that time was slower and LTT was living at the same time as Rand and they comunicated across the worlds. or that in the other world Rand came before LTT and he heard him that way or... something.               

[Sylvia]

I never thought of the portal stone theory. It makes sense. I was thinking more along the lines of while LTT was crazy that he heard Rand.

[Mad_Scientist]

Regarding Lews Therin being healed, I believe it was stated by Jordon that the True Power can heal insanity. Hence how Lews Therin was healed, but why not one else can be healed of the taint induced madness.

 

Regarding whether Lews Therin was suffering from the taint induced madness when he died, that does not matter now. He's a voice in Rand's head now. People will debate a lot about what exactly Lews Therin is and what his nature is, but regardless, his soul is in Rand's body now (it's the same soul as Rand's, of course), and Rand has been tainted plenty. Thus, Lews Therin is insane.

[OptimusPrime]

I never contemplated that Lews Therin might have been affected by the Taint Rand channeled through as well. Interesting thought that