Mat's Plotline (Spoilers for the whole book)

[stormcrow]

A grown up Mat? He was complaining about women the whole time and making overly elaborate (and silly) plans. He didn't mature in this book, just his voice was a mock imitation of his former self. Mat didn't feel right, but it doesn't really matter since everyone else was written rather perfectly.

 

I'm not sure why anyone here is trying to say someones OPINION is wrong.

[richnewton82]

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[Diederichos]

It's not a question of Mat, Mat didn't do enough to actually be liked or disliked. It's the characters around Mat, and how they were written that just seem bad to me. A lot of what makes Mat likeable, to me anyway, has been his entourage, and on this occasion the entourage was badly done. Also, Talmanes spoke enough occasions(particularly with Egwene) that this just seemed like a different.

 

But yes, I'll agree that we both know we're right.

 

Although I will say this. When Mat says 'saidared it', that is indefensible.

[richnewton82]

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[DemandredFO]

That line seemed like a quintescential Mat line and how do we know Mat and co. weren't going to be written like this with RJ; not saying they would've been either.  The point is we don't know and signs of the Last Battle are now smacking everyone over the head.  Whereas before everyone knew Tarmon Gaidon was coming; the shit has now really hit the fan.  2, Mat has gotten married.  Together, this may just add up to changes in attitude.  For me the Hinderstap chapters were hilarious.

[Jillain Sanche]

I loved those chapters myself (as if it wasn't obvious). I think Mat is much more believable now, and certainly so is Talmanes. More dialogue = good.

 

Can't wait till the next book! Mat in Caemlyn getting Aludra's dragons into production. heh heh

And will he take Verin's advice and be disguised? What's in Verin's letter to him anyway?

 

I'm just sitting here rubbing my hands together in anticipation.  :D

[Mr Ares]

There might be a few DFs, or maybe Mat's ta'veren nature kept them away. You need a certain amount of bravery to join a military organization like Mat's (unless you are ordered to by the Forsaken), and DFs are somewhat lacking in that department.

While it is true that there are unlikely to be many (if any) Darkfriends in the Band, I don't think that Darkfriends as a whole are lacking in courage. Moral cowards, yes. They are greedy and selfish, and on the whole not very good people. But there is nothing to say that they must be physical cowards in addition to that - indeed, that would actually be helpful to the Shadow. They might not be the sort of people who will go out and die for their country, but they could do a pretty good job of making the enemy die for his.

 

Saying the differences are bad, good, a bad imitation, or whatever, is basically saying anybody who disagrees is wrong by default.

But anyone who disagrees with me is wrong by default.

 

Anyway, Mat didn't really mature in this book. He is not more mature than he was at the end of KoD. BS didn't change Talmanes's character, he didn't add really anything, he didn't develop it, he just wrote it in a less subtle fashion. That sense of humour, that was already there, according to Sanderson. Of ocurse, as we usually see Talmanes through the eyes of others (Mat), then they are coloured by that characters perception of them. So Mat is noticing something about Talmanes that was always there.

[singogreatest360]

Am I misunderstanding something or are there readers who beleive that BS MADE UP the idea the Mat would make up aliases before entering a possible trap?!? Something like this is such an obvious/ natural step it HAD to be in the notes already. RJ loves aliases don't forget about super ugly Rand when he goes to Andor and Elayne's guards reaction. Hilarious!

 

And this is the most (almost) down time Mat has had with the Band. (No armies to fight)Ofcourse the will be dialouge.

[Jonn]

Am I misunderstanding something or are there readers who beleive that BS MADE UP the idea the Mat would make up aliases before entering a possible trap?!? Something like this is such an obvious/ natural step it HAD to be in the notes already. RJ loves aliases don't forget about super ugly Rand when he goes to Andor and Elayne's guards reaction. Hilarious!

 

And this is the most (almost) down time Mat has had with the Band. (No armies to fight)Ofcourse the will be dialouge.

 

Mat's was the worst reviewed part of the book, and hence the most defended. Amongst my friends who read the series, they all had at least to comment on how it was...well different from the rest of the book.

You yourself are defending it.

 

People didn't like Mat's depiction in the book. Get over it. 80% of the book was fantastic and well done. 10% was alright, but could be better. The other 10% needed some work or even a sub percentage didn't even need to be there.

 

It's not a perfect book. Get over it.

 

It's not better than Book 4 or 5 in my opinion...not better than The Great Hunt.

 

It may rank somewhere around Lord of Chaos...Knife of Dreams, about Winter's Heart for me. I loved Winter's Heart.

Good book, but not great, largely because of the perceived inconsistencies of Mat's sections and some of the dialogue abnormalities we are not used to.

 

If Brandon Sanderson's goal was simply to prove that he would be adequate to complete the task, then he has succeeded.

 

but to be looked upon as an equal of or even to surpass Jordan...Not likely to happen, not with this offering as any indication.

 

Hey, but kudos. I have confidence he was the correct choice, but he better step it up if he plans on being seen by the general view as someone who could bring the series to another level.

That's not possible anyway, so don't hold your breath over it.

 

If you enjoy it, then do so. No need to defend it like Brandon Sanderson is a relative of yours.

 

Face it, nice as you want to be about it, Sanderson will NEVER replace RJ. Frankly I'm glad to have this confirmed for me. Relieved even.

[Bob T Dwarf]

Without getting too snarky, here -

 

We each have different tastes.  Different likes and dislikes.  Everybody's reaction to TGS is subjective.  Nobody's subjective reaction to a book is anymore "right" or "correct" than anyone else's.

 

It would be helpful if people therefore quit trying to beat each other over the head with the idea that their personal opinion about TGS is the only "right" way to view the book.

 

If you personally find it to be a good read, that's all that matters.

[jemron]

Without getting too snarky, here -

 

We each have different tastes.  Different likes and dislikes.  Everybody's reaction to TGS is subjective.  Nobody's subjective reaction to a book is anymore "right" or "correct" than anyone else's.

 

It would be helpful if people therefore quit trying to beat each other over the head with the idea that their personal opinion about TGS is the only "right" way to view the book.

 

If you personally find it to be a good read, that's all that matters.

 

Agreed.  I started out by saying stuff like, "who freaking cares if Mat was different, at least we have the book!"  Then I realized, some people do care, and they have the right to discuss it.

 

Unfortunately, since not a lot of interesting stuff has happened to Mat, the main discussions revolving around his character for TGS are about how people felt about the writing, and not about plot or theories.  I usually stay out of discussion in this thread anymore because there really isn't much left to discuss about Mat that hasn't already been discussed.

 

I guaranteed that after ToM comes out, there will be a lot more to discuss about Mat's storyline.

[richnewton82]

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[Vambram]

 

 

Mat's was the worst reviewed part of the book,

 

By some, a relative minority of the reviews according to the many that I have read.

 

and hence the most defended. Amongst my friends who read the series, they all had at least to comment on how it was...well different from the rest of the book.

You yourself are defending it.

 

If none stepped up to defend why we liked Mat's story and character in TGS, then it would be assumed that the negative reviews are the majority opinion, when in fact they are not.

 

People didn't like Mat's depiction in the book. Get over it.

 

SOME people did not like Mat's depiction the book, but not most people. Get over it.

 

80% of the book was fantastic and well done. 10% was alright, but could be better. The other 10% needed some work or even a sub percentage didn't even need to be there.

 

That is your belief which you are free to choose to believe, Jonn. On the other hand, I believe that 99% of the book was fantastic, but unfortunately not up to the mega-superlative standards as set by WOT's creator, Robert Jordan.

 

 

It's not a perfect book. Get over it.

No human has ever written a perfect book. Get over it, Jonn.

 

If Brandon Sanderson's goal was simply to prove that he would be adequate to complete the task, then he has succeeded.

 

He has even succeeded way beyond your own expectations and predictions, if my memory of past posts of yours about this topic in months past are correct.

 

but to be looked upon as an equal of or even to surpass Jordan...Not likely to happen, not with this offering as any indication.

 

Brandon Sanderson has repeatedly said that he is not attempting to equal the work of WOT's creator. Sanderson and the rest of Team Jordan all know that nobody at all could have finished this series better than Robert Jordan could have.

 

 

[jadelollipop]

Personally  I enjoyed the chapters involving Matt. I re read the entire series prior to reading TGS and a lot of the things I disliked about the series faded upon re reading them back to back. TGS fit in quite nicely with the rest of the series IMO.  Is it not a possibility that Matt did not change so much as Talmanes?  I loved how he rolled his eyes at Matt's complaints. Maybe, T did this before but M did not remark on it or failed to notice it at the time...

I also thought it great that Tuon (Fortuona) is getting confirmation that Matt was telling the truth and her opinion of him is expanding...loved Nynaeve's defense of Matt as well...:)

[miss pickles]

Mat+Elayne= Guaranteed Entertainment

 

Yes! I couldn't agree more!

[miss pickles]

In any case... I hope Setalle gets healed. I like her and she deserves it!

I love this too...Setalle is a great character and adds to the depth of the story with the wonder girls and provides ongoing potential for story lines...I compare her to Laras and maybe Bella as loveable and interesting characters.

[Basic]

Personally, i enjoyed the Mat chapters, possibly more than usual. For me they seemed especially fitting in this book. With all the doom and gloom going on elsewhere in the book, the light-hearted feeling to Mat's arc was great.

 

Sure, the humour was a bit less subtle than before, but i found that refreshing. I've never found myself laughing openly at any point in the series that i can remember, but this one forced a giggle to surface quite a few times.

 

I think people are taking these chapters too seriously. They're not, after all, cruicial to the storyline. The only important moment would be Mat's meeting with Verin, and that section was handled rather well in my opinion. Of course, people talk about the use of the term "saidared" and other such things, but something like that has only increased my liking of Mat as a character.

 

I guess it just comes down to personal taste, really.

[singogreatest360]

Am I misunderstanding something or are there readers who beleive that BS MADE UP the idea the Mat would make up aliases before entering a possible trap?!? Something like this is such an obvious/ natural step it HAD to be in the notes already. RJ loves aliases don't forget about super ugly Rand when he goes to Andor and Elayne's guards reaction. Hilarious!

 

And this is the most (almost) down time Mat has had with the Band. (No armies to fight)Ofcourse the will be dialouge.

 

Mat's was the worst reviewed part of the book, and hence the most defended. Amongst my friends who read the series, they all had at least to comment on how it was...well different from the rest of the book.

You yourself are defending it.

 

Face it, nice as you want to be about it, Sanderson will NEVER replace RJ. Frankly I'm glad to have this confirmed for me. Relieved even.

 

If you are gonna quote someone you should really respond to the quote instead of making yourself look like a fool.

 

Mat's parts was awesome. Get over it. After I read the book Mat's parts were the main ones I wanted to reread for the humor of it.

 

The themes of the characters haven't changed!! Mat has ALWAYS been the go to guy for humor. Get over it!!!!

[aunt_pol]

Wow, you guys.

 

I came to this thread thinking I might find 25 pages of interesting fun stuff, like ideas & theories about how Mat's spending his time in Caemlyn, reading & acting on Verin's letter, noticing Elayne's baby bump, putting manners on the Seafolk again, drinking with Birgitte, fussing over Olver, and plotting how to approach the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

Oh well. Never mind.

[Jonn]

Am I misunderstanding something or are there readers who beleive that BS MADE UP the idea the Mat would make up aliases before entering a possible trap?!? Something like this is such an obvious/ natural step it HAD to be in the notes already. RJ loves aliases don't forget about super ugly Rand when he goes to Andor and Elayne's guards reaction. Hilarious!

 

And this is the most (almost) down time Mat has had with the Band. (No armies to fight)Ofcourse the will be dialouge.

 

Mat's was the worst reviewed part of the book, and hence the most defended. Amongst my friends who read the series, they all had at least to comment on how it was...well different from the rest of the book.

You yourself are defending it.

 

Face it, nice as you want to be about it, Sanderson will NEVER replace RJ. Frankly I'm glad to have this confirmed for me. Relieved even.

 

If you are gonna quote someone you should really respond to the quote instead of making yourself look like a fool.

 

Mat's parts was awesome. Get over it. After I read the book Mat's parts were the main ones I wanted to reread for the humor of it.

 

The themes of the characters haven't changed!! Mat has ALWAYS been the go to guy for humor. Get over it!!!!

 

lol, irony.

[b9anders]

Have to say I find all the 'Sanderson wrote it' assumptions unbecoming. It's a cheap slur to transpose on the writer for any passage or development that any given reader might not find to his liking and ignores the fact that Jordan himself could have written much that would have felt disagreeable or 'out of character' to the reader and people would never have noticed if they weren't looking for this in a new writer. Especially considering that arriet has already noted that most of the guesses she had seen online on who wrote what were dead wrong.

 

I just don't think it adds anything to the discussion to bring in Sanderson's writing as part of the analysis on topics like this.

[Eleint]

Basically, it's very common for certain types of fans to think the author 'made a mistake'.  I'm waiting for a 'true end of the WoT' where someone rewrites it the 'way it should be' because their favorite character (Cadsuane and Mat are most common here) didn't act as they wanted.  Like those insane Harry Potter fans who decided to rewrite the last few books because Harry didn't end up with Hermione.

 

Onto the topic, I thought Mat felt a little different, but it did feel like 'Mat'.  The humor is a bit more overt, but he's in a tough spot and BS is just getting to know him, so it's cool.  I didn't think it sucked or anything.

[Strom Jak]

Onto the topic, I thought Mat felt a little different, but it did feel like 'Mat'.  The humor is a bit more overt, but he's in a tough spot and BS is just getting to know him, so it's cool.  I didn't think it sucked or anything.

 

If you've ever followed a comic strip that changes illustrator you can better understand what's happened with Mat.  The characters in the comic strip never look the same at first but after awhile it's the early strips that become strange looking. 

 

Mat's portrayal IS slightly different than before and it is because it's a different author but that is unavoidable, especially since Brandon Sanderson is an accomplished author in his own right.  He has his own voice and has done a fantastic job of modulating that voice to better mimic Robert Jordan's but it can not ever be exactly the same. 

[Jonn]

Onto the topic, I thought Mat felt a little different, but it did feel like 'Mat'.  The humor is a bit more overt, but he's in a tough spot and BS is just getting to know him, so it's cool.  I didn't think it sucked or anything.

 

If you've ever followed a comic strip that changes illustrator you can better understand what's happened with Mat.  The characters in the comic strip never look the same at first but after awhile it's the early strips that become strange looking. 

 

Mat's portrayal IS slightly different than before and it is because it's a different author but that is unavoidable, especially since Brandon Sanderson is an accomplished author in his own right.  He has his own voice and has done a fantastic job of modulating that voice to better mimic Robert Jordan's but it can not ever be exactly the same. 

 

Back when I collected comics a long time ago, I was totally a fan of Jim Lee's take on the X-Men. loved every frame. He left to do stuff for Image comics, and I followed him when he started WildCATS...In hindsight, the book sucked, but I still was into his art and his style. Thing is X-Men remained the X-Men, even without Jim Lee, but I know what I liked about it and what I didn't like about WildCATS. I know what I didn't like about X-Men when Lee left.

 

It slightly mirrors what has happened here. I really liked Sanderson's work on some of his books. I really liked Elantris. I liked Mistborn 1. I thought Warbreaker was ok. Judging from these works I thought Sanderson had the chops to do Wheel of Time. He does, but something wasn't quite the same. While I like his work on Wheel of Time, some things just didn't work for me. There's no use for me to try to convince myself otherwise. I was very clear about what I liked about his efforts with The Gathering Storm. I am equally clear about what I don't like, I think.

 

Many people seem up in arms about the very act of not liking something about the book. I find this sadly typical. Try something why don't some of you...Gain some distance from the book.

I find that a lot of people have a hardon for it simply because they can't bear the thought that perhaps this isn't going to be as special an ending as the series deserves.

 

I said months ago that it's going to be very sad when it turns out that the people who want something so bad realize in horror, that what they get isn't quite as good as they've hyped it up to be. That they HAD to hype it otherwise face despair again. The despair that RJ has passed away and we won't get to see the end he promised us. It's almost that the facsimile presented to us by Sanderson and Co. is just a shadow of what we could have had from the man himself.

Thing is we could never have that. We could NEVER have RJ's ending. To accept that truth is far more painful that just blindly defending every little shortcoming Sanderson shows. He was always going to fall just short guys. In a lot of cases he will fall far short. That's life, cruel as it is.

Sanderson isn't RJ. I know that. It think it's pretty simple of people to suggest that I need to accept something that I already know. Sanderson's work pales in comparison to RJ's. In many ways. In some ways he's an equal to RJ. Some things he does a bit better, but not enough for me to say that the sum of what we are getting from Sanderson by any means meets or surpasses what I think RJ would have produced by himself had he lived.

 

Some may think me unfair to say it, but hey; Someone had to. No one has gone as far as to say what some are truly thinking at this point.

 

I loved some parts of this book. I like a good portion of it. I though a good deal of it was passable, and a small chunk of it I thought was tripe and garbage. Sorry if that's mean to you, but it's honest. Problem is, no one likes honesty these days. So there you have it. dislike it all you want. Doesn't make it not true. 

Hate the title. The cover art is horrible. Hated Mat's overacting, and how fanfic his conversation with Thom was. Didn't think many of the "funny" bits were very funny. Some of the dialogue was too modern but most of it was passable. That pretty much says it for what I did not tolerate. As you can see, the majority of the book I enjoyed, most of it I enjoyed very much.

[mossman87]

Onto the topic, I thought Mat felt a little different, but it did feel like 'Mat'.  The humor is a bit more overt, but he's in a tough spot and BS is just getting to know him, so it's cool.  I didn't think it sucked or anything.

 

If you've ever followed a comic strip that changes illustrator you can better understand what's happened with Mat.  The characters in the comic strip never look the same at first but after awhile it's the early strips that become strange looking. 

 

Mat's portrayal IS slightly different than before and it is because it's a different author but that is unavoidable, especially since Brandon Sanderson is an accomplished author in his own right.  He has his own voice and has done a fantastic job of modulating that voice to better mimic Robert Jordan's but it can not ever be exactly the same. 

 

Back when I collected comics a long time ago, I was totally a fan of Jim Lee's take on the X-Men. loved every frame. He left to do stuff for Image comics, and I followed him when he started WildCATS...In hindsight, the book sucked, but I still was into his art and his style. Thing is X-Men remained the X-Men, even without Jim Lee, but I know what I liked about it and what I didn't like about WildCATS. I know what I didn't like about X-Men when Lee left.

 

It slightly mirrors what has happened here. I really liked Sanderson's work on some of his books. I really liked Elantris. I liked Mistborn 1. I thought Warbreaker was ok. Judging from these works I thought Sanderson had the chops to do Wheel of Time. He does, but something wasn't quite the same. While I like his work on Wheel of Time, some things just didn't work for me. There's no use for me to try to convince myself otherwise. I was very clear about what I liked about his efforts with The Gathering Storm. I am equally clear about what I don't like, I think.

 

Many people seem up in arms about the very act of not liking something about the book. I find this sadly typical. Try something why don't some of you...Gain some distance from the book.

I find that a lot of people have a hardon for it simply because they can't bear the thought that perhaps this isn't going to be as special an ending as the series deserves.

 

I said months ago that it's going to be very sad when it turns out that the people who want something so bad realize in horror, that what they get isn't quite as good as they've hyped it up to be. That they HAD to hype it otherwise face despair again. The despair that RJ has passed away and we won't get to see the end he promised us. It's almost that the facsimile presented to us by Sanderson and Co. is just a shadow of what we could have had from the man himself.

Thing is we could never have that. We could NEVER have RJ's ending. To accept that truth is far more painful that just blindly defending every little shortcoming Sanderson shows. He was always going to fall just short guys. In a lot of cases he will fall far short. That's life, cruel as it is.

Sanderson isn't RJ. I know that. It think it's pretty simple of people to suggest that I need to accept something that I already know. Sanderson's work pales in comparison to RJ's. In many ways. In some ways he's an equal to RJ. Some things he does a bit better, but not enough for me to say that the sum of what we are getting from Sanderson by any means meets or surpasses what I think RJ would have produced by himself had he lived.

 

Some may think me unfair to say it, but hey; Someone had to. No one has gone as far as to say what some are truly thinking at this point.

 

I loved some parts of this book. I like a good portion of it. I though a good deal of it was passable, and a small chunk of it I thought was tripe and garbage. Sorry if that's mean to you, but it's honest. Problem is, no one likes honesty these days. So there you have it. dislike it all you want. Doesn't make it not true. 

Hate the title. The cover art is horrible. Hated Mat's overacting, and how fanfic his conversation with Thom was. Didn't think many of the "funny" bits were very funny. Some of the dialogue was too modern but most of it was passable. That pretty much says it for what I did not tolerate. As you can see, the majority of the book I enjoyed, most of it I enjoyed very much.

 

You don't need to say sorry, I just don't think anyone really cares, no matter how many words you try and type to convince them.  :-\