Signing questions and answers

[Random Man]

Cadsuane is always a really interesting character for me. Like many of the secondary "obstacle" characters, she has good intentions, she's just fundamentally wrong on how to attain her goals. Rand is not someone who should be manipulated. Not just because of his mental state, but because of his stubborn nature. He has never liked the idea of not being in control of his destiny. That's why he denies that he is the Dragon for three books. He's smart enough to see through most attempts at manipulation, and crazy pants enough to blow up over any, real or perceived. But despite being told this, and seeing first hand evidence of it, Cadsuane still does it. It's her nature to do so. I doubt she can change. And I think she's too arrogant to see a need to. So I can sort of see why Brandon would enjoy delivering a comeuppance to her.

 

I must be in the small minority of people who actually likes Cadsuane precisely because she didn't treat Rand like the Dragon Reborn. Instead, she treated him like a stubborn young man, and, like a Catholic school nun, wasn't afraid to smack his hand with a ruler when he needed it. Rand needs people around him - and not just in bed - who don't treat him like the Dragon Reborn all the time. I think Rand realized this, which is why he wanted her to be his counselor in the first place. She broke Semhirage through the same technique -- by dealing with the person and not the title or reputation. Yes, she's a bully, but sometimes you need a bully at your side. If she put a foot wrong in TGS it is because she did not realize the extent of the damage that had been done to Rand by Semhirage. Before Semhirage escaped, Cadsuane's technique seemed to have been working. She does, however, need to learn enough humility to atone for letting the Domination Bands get away from her. That was completely her fault, no two ways about it.

[Terez]

I must be in the small minority of people who actually likes Cadsuane precisely because she didn't treat Rand like the Dragon Reborn.

I feel the same.  I think she was a good deal more abrasive and annoying in this book than she has ever been, to the point that I was happy when Rand exiled her (despite still being in OH SH!T territory from the previous chapter).  And even though I know that this was probably due to Brandon's influence, it doesn't bother me.

 

She broke Semhirage through the same technique -- by dealing with the person and not the title or reputation.

I thought it was interesting how she broke Semirhage by comparing Semirhage to herself.  :)

 

She does' date=' however, need to learn enough humility to atone for letting the Domination Bands get away from her. That was completely her fault, no two ways about it.[/quote']

Now that, I disagree with, unless it was in fact Sorilea who taught Elza those weaves.

[Rocky_Outcrop]

I was reading through this thread and enjoying all of it so much when the LTT/Rand debate got brought up. Initially my cynicism told me this was a way of advertising the theoryland board to people who have a particular view on LTT/Rand construct/real debate.

 

The whole thing is very frustrating to read, essentially (no offense intended here at all) it is a bunch of amateurs debating things they don't really know. The reason I say this is that as I read the debates going back and forth each person feels the need to beef up and back up what they say - the best way to do this is to pretend you know something about psychology. (Aside from the fact that I would not listen to a psychologist's opinion on this debate anyway - as it is a character being described by another person - like I wouldn't send you to the doc for me it would not be wise to get a medical opinion third hand)

 

 

I like the fact that BS does not want to talk about it and that RJ left it to be interpreted by the reader. 

[cleantoe]

Indeed, thats essentially what I'm talking about. Brandon speaks liberally of being the biggest fan who is a writer, yet on this front he also clearly expresses his disdain for Cadsuane, a fact which can be seen in his portrayel of Cadsuane (noted before he stated his opinion).

 

His attitude is deeply disconcerting. It the one aspect I have a deep problem with--even the Mat issue makes sense. This feels like the personal bias of a fan effecting his writing.

 

Have you ever written any literature? You'll start out writing a character who you really like, and then start to not like her but feel it's necessary to keep writing in her storyline due to her being integral to the plot.

 

Authors who say they like all the characters in their book(s) are full of crap, and I'd go so far to say that even RJ had some characters he didn't really like but had to write their parts anyways.

 

You can't expect Sanderson to magically like all the characters in RJ's books just as I wouldn't expect you to like all the characters in the books.

 

Finding someone absolutely objective, after so many books, would be impossible.

 

Agreed.  That being said, I have predicted her going out in a blaze of glory for some time now, thereby teaching Rand and the Asha'man something in a way they won't like at all.  Dunno about gruesome, but I expect her to die.

 

Maybe they'll learn laughter and tears (of joy) when/if Cadsuane dies. I know I'll be laughing!

[TheAngryDruid]

Put me in the camp that says Moiraine's return will bring tears to Rand (and some humanity) and will also be a much needed lesson for Cadsuane (and the rest of the AS, save possibly Nynaeve).

 

[dflinn]

Oy,

 

I was at that signing, I was literally right next to Brandon as he answered this question, and that is far from his exact wording.

 

The response was more accurately something like: So far as we know, no one may chnanel the true power without the Dark One's permission.  Semirhage certainly seemed to think she was betrayed.

 

There was never a comment about Rand not having permission.

 

I'd take all of the Q & A by that guy with a bit of a grain of salt...  He seemed very much to be looking to hear things that agree with his own opinions, not so much just trying to take in some truth from Brandon.

 

I am pretty sure it was said in the earlier books the DO would rather turn Rand then to defeat him. I could see the DO giving Rand "permission" to use the TS even if one of his chosen died because of it. The darkness around Rand might be considered worth it to the DO if it helped keep Rand on the path he seemed to be heading down. I have to say the idea that Rand and his side are on their heals with only a slim chance of defeating the dark one hasnt been conveyed to me at all. Seems to me the Light is winning easily.

[Terez]

Put me in the camp that says Moiraine's return will bring tears to Rand (and some humanity) and will also be a much needed lesson for Cadsuane (and the rest of the AS, save possibly Nynaeve).

 

I had a faction that said as much at Theoryland.  After The Gathering Storm, I considered it debunked.  Rand has had his laughter and tears now.

[analyticalkeys]

Put me in the camp that says Moiraine's return will bring tears to Rand (and some humanity) and will also be a much needed lesson for Cadsuane (and the rest of the AS, save possibly Nynaeve).

 

I had a faction that said as much at Theoryland.  After The Gathering Storm, I considered it debunked.  Rand has had his laughter and tears now.

 

He's had his laughter and tears in one sense, but c'mon, Moraine has to bring some kind of strong emotion from him.. he started this list of dead women that he couldn't save, with Moraine being at the top, and has been repeating it ever since. I'm sure it will bring a little more humanity to him to have Moraine back.

[Terez]

Oh, I'm not saying that Moiraine's return isn't going to make him happy.  Just that we won't be waiting desperately for her to come back solely so that can she fix his wretched mental state.  I don't think he needs to learn humanity any more, after his epiphany on Dragonmount.

[Vambram]

Oh, I'm not saying that Moiraine's return isn't going to make him happy.  Just that we won't be waiting desperately for her to come back solely so that can she fix his wretched mental state.  I don't think he needs to learn humanity any more, after his epiphany on Dragonmount.

 

I do hope that you are right about this.

[Terez]

Oh, I'm not saying that Moiraine's return isn't going to make him happy.  Just that we won't be waiting desperately for her to come back solely so that can she fix his wretched mental state.  I don't think he needs to learn humanity any more, after his epiphany on Dragonmount.

 

I do hope that you are right about this.

I don't expect that his problems will go away completely.  He's still got the link with Moridin to deal with (which is affecting his personality), and Brandon has just revealed that the wound from Fain's dagger is contributing to his paranoia.  But I think that the vast majority of his mental issues were rooted in his guilt over the Kinslaying, as early as The Fires of Heaven, and his subsequent misinterpretation/misappropriation of his past life memories.  Now that he has accepted Lews Therin's memories, he can approach the situation with a few centuries' worth of wisdom under his belt.

[Vambram]

That is what I have been trying for a long time to tell people whom are hating on Rand. For over a year, he has been dealing with levels of physical pain that most of us can not even begin to comprehend. On top of that, he has had to deal with the voice of Lews Therin in his mind. However, I loved the end of the chapter, Veins of Gold, when Rand and Lews merged into one personality, as Rand realized that LTT was never a different man in his head, but that he and LTT were one and the same soul.

Now that this level of reintergration has been achieved, we can be sure that the Dragon Reborn will have much more control over himself, and hopefully the insanity that Rand was suffering will fade away.

[dbo -WoT-]

Matt: Can the Dark One use the One Power?

 

Brandon: RAFO

 

Brandon: ...when it comes to this certain character that you are talking about, there is a whole thing where Maria and I exchanged a bunch of emails about this. She had managed to pull some things out of the notes that I had not seen, which is interesting, because I was going off of something else. I did not think that Cyndane should be nearly as powerful as she was put in the books as being, so I had been under the belief that the Dark One was pulling shenanigans…

 

Matt: ...like a little, in essence, let’s say what the Forsaken Lanfear did to Asmodean, you thought maybe the Dark One was doing some similar…shielding…

 

Brandon: …or the other way around…here is a little extra power you can draw upon while I am pleased with you, I can take this away…

 

 

I found this interesting. These are quotes from Tamyrlin's (Matt from theoryland) discussion with BS. BS says RAFO when asked if the DO can use the OP. Then, he seems to indicate in the discussion about Cyndane that the DO can indeed use the OP in some fashion to make it appear a person is stronger than he/she is by giving them more strength in the OP for a limited time. Maybe it's possible to do with the TP, but I'd like to think this could be a (sort-of) hidden hint dealing with the DO and possibly the Creator.

[Terez]

I'm not sure that Brandon had any real reason to believe that the Dark One could do that, though.  It's hard to say, based on what he said.  That is, however, and interesting angle from which to consider his comments.

[dbo -WoT-]

I'm not sure that Brandon had any real reason to believe that the Dark One could do that, though.  It's hard to say, based on what he said.  That is, however, and interesting angle from which to consider his comments.

 

I took this angle because I thought Brandon did have reason to believe the DO could do that from his misinterpretation of Cyndane's strength. From my interpretation, I thought he essentially said he thought the DO COULD and was giving Cyndane extra strength. After discussing it with Maria, he realized he was wrong.

 

My theory comes from the fact that he was under the impression it was possible from the notes, but didn't realize there were other notes more specific to Cyndane's strength. I don't think those new notes refute what BS believes the DO capable of. They just show that the DO didn't do it in this case. Wrong or right, I want to know what BS meant by thinking the DO could do that. It's obviously something we don't know about the DO yet.

[randfandom]

I must be in the small minority of people who actually likes Cadsuane precisely because she didn't treat Rand like the Dragon Reborn.

 

I think Cadsuane is an awesome character (which should not be taken to mean that she is flawless by any means, or that I would want to be anywhere near her :-)). She has saved Rand's life or freedom several times - after Fain's dagger, warning about the danger of using Callandor, freed him from the Far Madding prison, saved his ass during the cleansing, managed to ruin Semirhage initial plot; as an advisor she managed to prevent him from completely bungling at least two political situations (the resolution of the rebelion in Tear and the Aiel discontent at Arad Doman); she figured out how to break Semirhage. Most important, she never lost sight of her goal to teach Rand humanity and eventually came up with the only way that it could have been accomplished. She never gives up and always able to think out of the box in a way that few can. When confronted with an a'dam, she is not afraid to try it on to look for ways to defeat it (compare that to Rand's refusal to even test the male a'dam).

 

She is also arrogant, rigid, obnoxious, abrasive and rude to a huge degree. I never understood the logic of demanding other people show manners and respect while going around slapping them and talking in a derogatory manner to them at the same time. Like Rand, she shares no information unless she has to, which makes people distrust her even when she means well. I loved it when Tam talked her down, but let's not forget that he'd not have been there to dress her down if not for her - no one else even considered bringing him over to help.

 

I thought her depiction by Brandon Sanderson was lacking, but he did convey her creativity and originality, as well as dedication and strength - and her abrasiveness and rudeness too. To be fair, Rand was far less pleasant to be around than she was.

[Terez]

Good post.  *wishes for thumbs-up emote*

[Mr Ares]

Indeed, thats essentially what I'm talking about. Brandon speaks liberally of being the biggest fan who is a writer, yet on this front he also clearly expresses his disdain for Cadsuane, a fact which can be seen in his portrayel of Cadsuane (noted before he stated his opinion).

 

His attitude is deeply disconcerting. It the one aspect I have a deep problem with--even the Mat issue makes sense. This feels like the personal bias of a fan effecting his writing.

Have you ever written any literature? You'll start out writing a character who you really like, and then start to not like her but feel it's necessary to keep writing in her storyline due to her being integral to the plot.

 

Authors who say they like all the characters in their book(s) are full of crap, and I'd go so far to say that even RJ had some characters he didn't really like but had to write their parts anyways.

So because an author has a different experience of writing to you, they are full of crap?

 

You can't expect Sanderson to magically like all the characters in RJ's books just as I wouldn't expect you to like all the characters in the books.

He doesn't have to like her, just write her well. Gutting the character isn't writing her well.

[Eleint]

I've really only seen the people who think she can do almost no wrong say she was 'gutted' or written badly.  Bias, anyone?

 

I don't think she was gutted at all.  Everything she's done is a part of what she's done before.  Everything else is just details.

[Mr Ares]

I've really only seen the people who think she can do almost no wrong say she was 'gutted' or written badly. Bias, anyone?

She can do wrong. That's not at issue. The problem is that she had to act out of character to be wrong in this instance.

 

I don't think she was gutted at all. Everything she's done is a part of what she's done before. Everything else is just details.

Details are important. Cadsuane's whole character is just details. Change the details, change the character. The way she treats Rand is something most people notice, but she doesn't treat everyone like that. She treats different people in different ways, to get different responses. How she treats Rand is deliberate, but she doesn't just automatically walk in and bully people. Look at how she dealt with Aleis - she only brings her down when she has no other choice, no other way to rescue Rand. She does it not by lifting the woman up, but by moving her crown. The details are all important. Look at how many people were annoyed at how he got Mat wrong, by changing a detail (his sense of humour), and he admitted he had reason for that change. It's like he got some of Cadsuane, but missed the finer points of her character.

[Bob T Dwarf]

It's like he got some of Cadsuane, but missed the finer points of her character.

 

There are no "fine points" to Cadsuane's character.  She is a very blunt instrument.

[cleantoe]

Did it ever occur to you Cadbots that RJ had written part of her roles and you are blaming Sanderson for something that RJ potentially had already written?

[Mr Ares]

Did it ever occur to you Cadbots that RJ had written part of her roles and you are blaming Sanderson for something that RJ potentially had already written?

Yes, but either way it's out of character on the whole, not just a specific instance. So unless you think RJ wrote all of her scenes...? And let's face it, BS is a lot more blunt than RJ. That whole lack of subtlety isn't just Cadsuane, it's across the board.

 

It's like he got some of Cadsuane, but missed the finer points of her character.

There are no "fine points" to Cadsuane's character.  She is a very blunt instrument.

There's no point arguing with you, Bob, you don't care about evidence.

[Bob T Dwarf]

It's like he got some of Cadsuane, but missed the finer points of her character.

There are no "fine points" to Cadsuane's character.  She is a very blunt instrument.

There's no point arguing with you, Bob, you don't care about evidence.

 

How would you know, you never present any evidence.

 

Just one quote from the books that points out even one of these "fine points" you seem to believe exists.

[benr]

If you assume that Cadsuane is growing increasingly frustrated with her lack of progress with Rand, and with TG approaching but Rand continuing to deteriorate, it is conceivable that she would "lose her cool".  She is being broken down, somewhat as Semi was.  But I expect Cadsuane to rebound, pull herself together, and have a major role to play in the last two books.