Signing questions and answers

[Mr Ares]

If I were balefired back a year, all of my posts would disappear!

That would be a terrible loss.

[coteaz]

Theres a similar precidence with 'traveling' and 'power scale'.

RJ said its theoretically 'possible' to say, travel to different planets, ect, via gateways/skimming.. But the further you go, the more power it takes....

 

So if it takes say, 1/2 rand to travel to the opposite side of earth, and 1.5x rand to get to the moon, it would take like, 80x rand to get to mars, and about a billion rands to get 1 light year away from earth. ;)

 

Well, he could just chuck on a space suit, and travel small distances at a time, and use weaves of air to push himself back towards a gateway lol

[benr]

If I were balefired back a year, all of my posts would disappear!

That would be a terrible loss.

 

Ah, Mr Ares, do I catch a hint of sarcasm?  Of course, your ingenious ripostes would be gone as well.

[Mr Ares]

If I were balefired back a year, all of my posts would disappear!

That would be a terrible loss.

Ah, Mr Ares, do I catch a hint of sarcasm?  Of course, your ingenious ripostes would be gone as well.

My ripostes gone? NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

[Barmacral]

My guess on the small detail might be the Fat Man angreal. It is something much forgotten after Dumai Wells, and nobody really gives it a second thought after Rand can't find it.

[Luckers]

I don't know--the disapearence was made too big a deal for it to sit well described as 'a minor detail', especially when compared to Vin's earing... And Brandon did say that this detail was overlooked.

 

I still reckon its whatever ter'angreal drew Elayne and Nynaeve's 'need' to Tower. Consider her need was something that would help make the Aes Sedai see they needed Rand--a ter'angreal that requires a man, or one which the Aes Sedai might percieve required a man. One for which the need to use would be great enough to overcome the Aes Sedai's natural antipathy...

[kasper11]

What about the ivory angreal that Lanfear has when Moiraine pushes her through the doorway?  Moiraine leaves it infront of the door (maybe to lure Lanfear, maybe not), describes it in detail (it is an ivory carving of a man bending backwards with his wrists bound to his ankles) and, most interesting to me, rips it away from Lanfear as they are going through the doorway.

 

Why does Moiraine need it? Is she really going to overpower Lanfear? Or, could it be some key to how she was able to survive?  Maybe it gave he something to bargain with the Finns?

[Paedraig Gaidin]

So, with regards to the hidden detail in books 4-6.  Don't we have to assume that the thing/person/whatever that BS was referring to shows up first in book 4, but then shows up again in books 5 and 6?

 

So, that last post might be wrong, just because I don't think that village shows up more than one time.  Speaking of probably being wrong, but wanting to bring something up:

 

Maybe this has been mentioned, but Lanfear said to Rand in the Stone of Tear in the beginning of book four that there are two other sa'angreal made for a male that are as/more powerful than Callandor.  We know of the CK... What is the other one?  Maybe this is the key?

 

 

What if Alanna- who bonded Rand in Book 4(?)- Is ILYENA REBORN.

[jemron]

What about the ivory angreal that Lanfear has when Moiraine pushes her through the doorway?  Moiraine leaves it infront of the door (maybe to lure Lanfear, maybe not), describes it in detail (it is an ivory carving of a man bending backwards with his wrists bound to his ankles) and, most interesting to me, rips it away from Lanfear as they are going through the doorway.

 

Why does Moiraine need it? Is she really going to overpower Lanfear? Or, could it be some key to how she was able to survive?  Maybe it gave he something to bargain with the Finns?

 

Cool.  I forgot about this.  Must reread.  I like that idea.  Whether or not that is the "significant" thing that BS was talking about, I like that this detail was there.  I bet we'll learn exactly why in the next book.  Next year can't come soon enough!

 

 

So, with regards to the hidden detail in books 4-6.  Don't we have to assume that the thing/person/whatever that BS was referring to shows up first in book 4, but then shows up again in books 5 and 6?

 

So, that last post might be wrong, just because I don't think that village shows up more than one time.  Speaking of probably being wrong, but wanting to bring something up:

 

Maybe this has been mentioned, but Lanfear said to Rand in the Stone of Tear in the beginning of book four that there are two other sa'angreal made for a male that are as/more powerful than Callandor.  We know of the CK... What is the other one?  Maybe this is the key?

 

 

What if Alanna- who bonded Rand in Book 4(?)- Is ILYENA REBORN.

 

I hope not... Also, didn't that happen in book 6?  Or was it book 4?

[anotherfingolfin]

What if Alanna- who bonded Rand in Book 4(?)- Is ILYENA REBORN.

 

why, because the names sound similar?

[Laurel4Amyrlin]

I asked Brandon about Mesaana, and if we'd seen her Aes Sedai a/e on stage yet. His answer was two-part: per RJ, we hadn't seen her on stage prior to KoD, but he wouldn't confirm or deny her appearance since then -- that was RAFO-ed.

 

He did, however, tell me that she WAS still in the White Tower at the end of TGS. SO. There's a little tidbit of info for you to chew on. I want to hear some theories! :)

[Nightstrike]

My theory is that Mesaana=Tsutama Rath. I don't know when we first saw her "on stage". She was mentioned before KoD, but I don't think she was "on stage"...

 

Oh, and I believe she evaded the oaths by saying "I am not Black Ajah". Technically, she is very unlikely to consider herself part of the "Black Ajah". Those primitives. :D

 

 

[Luckers]

Tsutama doesn't work--RJ said we had enough to figure out who she was if we were diligent by before CoT--Tsutama's as much a non-entity prior to KoD as Lirene, who remains a non-entity. There is nothing to mark her beyond the average referenced Aes Sedai.

 

Beside it doesn't match. He mannerisms are just too... quirky... to be fake. You try using unfamiliar curse words casually. And she's hard as nails and dangerous besides--enough so that she even unsettles Pevara. Compare that to Mesaana's personality. If she could fake such strength and self-containment then why does she behave to childishly at the Forsaken meetings?

 

The Black Ajah thing could very well work.

 

I think it was silly of him to answer that Mesaana was still in the Tower--think of all the debate he killed.  ;)

[coteaz]

Do we know if mesaana is actually a part of the black ajah, it would seem best to not be in the ajah so as best escape scrutiny if something were to happen to it.

[Nightstrike]

Tsutama doesn't work--RJ said we had enough to figure out who she was if we were diligent by before CoT--Tsutama's as much a non-entity prior to KoD as Lirene, who remains a non-entity. There is nothing to mark her beyond the average referenced Aes Sedai.

We know a few things before CoT that fits exactly. So, I persist in my belief that Tsutama Rath really is Mesaana in disguise.  :)

[zxg15]

I asked Brandon about Mesaana, and if we'd seen her Aes Sedai a/e on stage yet. His answer was two-part: per RJ, we hadn't seen her on stage prior to KoD, but he wouldn't confirm or deny her appearance since then -- that was RAFO-ed.

 

He did, however, tell me that she WAS still in the White Tower at the end of TGS. SO. There's a little tidbit of info for you to chew on. I want to hear some theories! :)

 

So this means that Danelle cannot be Mesaana since she was "on stage" in TSR and neither can Tarna since she was "on stage in TFoH/LoC (can't remember which.)  They were the two primary candidates pre-TGS.  Also I don't remember any quote from RJ that we hadn't seen her alter ego pre-KoD, it seems unlikely simply because Danelle and Tarna were the prime candidates and RJ saying that would have excluded them.

[Luckers]

Tsutama doesn't work--RJ said we had enough to figure out who she was if we were diligent by before CoT--Tsutama's as much a non-entity prior to KoD as Lirene, who remains a non-entity. There is nothing to mark her beyond the average referenced Aes Sedai.

 

We know a few things before CoT that fits exactly. So, I persist in my belief that Tsutama Rath really is Mesaana in disguise.  :)

 

Like what? The fact that she returned to the Tower after a long period away? That's essentially all we know prior to CoT--and remember we know also that Mesaana had taken residence in the Tower prior to Tsutama's return--she orchastrated Rand's kidnapping.

 

I asked Brandon about Mesaana, and if we'd seen her Aes Sedai a/e on stage yet. His answer was two-part: per RJ, we hadn't seen her on stage prior to KoD, but he wouldn't confirm or deny her appearance since then -- that was RAFO-ed.

 

He did, however, tell me that she WAS still in the White Tower at the end of TGS. SO. There's a little tidbit of info for you to chew on. I want to hear some theories! :)

 

So this means that Danelle cannot be Mesaana since she was "on stage" in TSR and neither can Tarna since she was "on stage in TFoH/LoC (can't remember which.)  They were the two primary candidates pre-TGS.  Also I don't remember any quote from RJ that we hadn't seen her alter ego pre-KoD, it seems unlikely simply because Danelle and Tarna were the prime candidates and RJ saying that would have excluded them.

 

No. Firstly either Brandon or Laurel messed up--RJ stated that we in fact HAD seen Mesaana on stage prior to KoD. Robert Mee asked him at a Crossroads of Twilight signing if we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on stage, and he said yes. This was on January 23 2003.

 

What Brandon may have been thinking of was RJ's comment about Demandred, whose alter ego RJ told us we have not seen as of CoT.

 

Incidentally here is the Storm Leaders official transcription of the Mesaana question--may or may not be what Laurel is referring to.

 

1. Question -  Has Mesaana’s alter ego been seen yet “on stage”?

 

1. Answer -  “I’m afraid I’m going to have to RAFO [read and find out] that.” Any yes/no would set all the fans, especially on the message boards and fans into figuring it out by process of elimination. The crowd pressed him for hints, and he did confirm that she is still in the White Tower. This statement was met with speculative “oohhh”’s and pensive looks as new theories were born then and there.

[Nightstrike]

Like what? The fact that she returned to the Tower after a long period away? That's essentially all we know prior to CoT--]

I've been over this before. We know more than that. How she's changed, for instance.

 

and remember we know also that Mesaana had taken residence in the Tower prior to Tsutama's return--she orchastrated Rand's kidnapping.

No, we don't know that she had taken permanent residence in the Tower prior to Tsutama's return. Even so, she doesn't have to be the same "person" the whole time. It's highly unlikely that someone could infiltrate the Tower that way - if this had been a real life situation.

 

 

Robert Mee asked him at a Crossroads of Twilight signing if we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on stage, and he said yes. This was on January 23 2003.

Seen her, or seen her "on stage"? I don't remember that quote.

 

 

 

[Nightstrike]

I searched on Theoryland, but couldn't find that Q&A. Where is it?

[Luckers]

I've been over this before. We know more than that. How she's changed, for instance.

 

Actually it names her as 'nervous eyed' "The other two Red Sitters who had resigned and gone into a "voluntary" retreat at the same time were nervous-eyed women now, but unlike Lirene and Tsutama, Toveine had only hardened in her solitary exile."

 

There is nothing there to differentiate of individuate Tsutama--and nothing to make her suspect--she is cited as having been broken by her time in exile. Nothing is odd about that. Lirene actually WAS broken by her time in exile.

 

That one sentence is literally the only mention of Tsutama by name prior to KoD. And the exiles as a whole get specifically referenced only one other time.

 

No, we don't know that she had taken permananent residence in the Tower prior to Tsutama's return. Even so, she doesn't have to be the same "person" the whole time. It's highly unlikely that someone could infiltrate the Tower that way - if this had been a real life situation.

 

Actually it's not possible that she's swapped alter-ego's. RJ told "Tallis" at the Harvard Coop signing [January 18, 2003] that "there are many clues as to Mesaana's identity, enough that we should figure it out before COT." He basically said that he'd full-out reveal her in upcoming books, though: '...and if you still don't know, well, you'll find out later.'"

 

The inference is that the pre-CoT identity would remain the same up to the reveal in later books. And that that identity should be identifiable prior to CoT.

 

Besides, I've always reguarded it as highly unlikely that she would swap identities. That seems a silly thing to do--it'd mean Aes Sedai disapearing and the greater chance of people noticing changes of behaviour in sisters--I mean one sister changing her behaviour slightly might be reguarded as odd--several over time mimicing this change as the one who first changed disapeared...

 

And why bother? You say in real life it would be difficult to infilitrate the Tower by assuming a single identity... why? Just pick one of the more reclusive sisters, on who has no friends. Any identity change would be shrugged off except by the closest of friends--take Sheriam as proof of that fact.

 

Quote

Robert Mee asked him at a Crossroads of Twilight signing if we had seen Mesaana's alter-ego on stage, and he said yes. This was on January 23 2003.

 

Seen her, or seen her "on stage"? I don't remember that quote.

 

Just seen her. Here is the exact quote from the WoT FAQ. "When asked if we have actually seen Mesaana's alter ego in the Tower, RJ said, yes, we have [Robert Mee, Bailey's Crossroads signing, VA, January 23, 2003]. "

 

I don't know what distinction your making. By 'on stage' I meant 'in the story'. Quite clearly RJ says that we have seen her in the story.

[Nightstrike]

From Theoryland:

Bailey's Crossroads VA 2005 - Robert Mee Reporting

 

Q:  Have we actually seen Mesaana's alter ego in the White Tower?

RJ:  Yes.

 

Was that the quote you were thinking about?

[Luckers]

I was using the WoTFAQ--it's all in the post above yours.

[Nightstrike]

From Theoryland:

Crossroads of Twilight book tour 18 January 2003, Harvard Coop - Tallis reporting

 

Tallis:  RJ said there are many clues as to Mesaana's identity, enough that we should figure it out before Crossroads of Twilight. He basically said that he'd full-out reveal her in upcoming books, though: '...and if you still don't know, well, you'll find out later.'

Yeah, there are many clues as to Mesaana=Tsutama Rath. More than on any other character.

[Nightstrike]

I was using the WoTFAQ--it's all in the post above yours.

Different years. 2003/2005. Well, I still think Mesaana=Tsutama. :)

[Luckers]

Well, I still think Mesaana=Tsutama.

 

That's cool... care to address my points though? I mean you claim...

 

Yeah, there are many clues as to Mesaana=Tsutama Rath. More than on any other character.

 

But the only one you've offered so far was the change of her personality. Which I addressed above--here it is again.

 

Actually it names her as 'nervous eyed' "The other two Red Sitters who had resigned and gone into a "voluntary" retreat at the same time were nervous-eyed women now, but unlike Lirene and Tsutama, Toveine had only hardened in her solitary exile."

 

There is nothing there to differentiate of individuate Tsutama--and nothing to make her suspect--she is cited as having been broken by her time in exile. Nothing is odd about that. Lirene actually WAS broken by her time in exile.

 

That one sentence is literally the only mention of Tsutama by name prior to KoD. And the exiles as a whole get specifically referenced only one other time.

 

 

So... only one mention by name, only one other specific reference. Where are these 'many clues'

 

 

 

Edited because I sounded WAY more terse than I intended. Lol. Hope I got to it before you saw, if I didn't, I REALLY didn't mean to sound angry. Just wasn't paying attention to what I was saying.