Rand's Plotline (spoilers for the entire book)

[wvlr2]

Sorry if this was asked/answered before.    If so I miied it.

 

OK in KoD Rand was temporarily blinded by Semi's attack  and in TGS he dressed up in a patched coat with a cane in Ebu Dar.

 

Do these actions fill the assorted deams/prophacies?

[markerikson]

 

I think Rand will die, whether before the Last Battle or during his confrontation with the DO, but his soul will be pulled from his body, and placed into Logain's.

 

I agree mostly, but I think Rand is going to shift into Moridin's body, not Logain's.  The Moridin/Rand bond plus the fact that the bodies are very similar.  I've posted about other reasons that support this.  Basically, Rand is going to die, we know from Min's viewing that only one out of Rand and Moridin will live, so if Rand dies then Moridin lives which is just kind of depressing, so Rand will probably take over Moridin and fulfill the viewing in that manner.

 

I do think there is something going on with Moridin's body.  It is almost too similar to Rand's.  And it does indeed appear that they are merging in some fashion.  However, my gut tells me that this merging is more of a metaphysical one.  I think Min's viewing of the two men merging refers to this, but I believe that Moridin is the one who will die (and its starting to seem like this is all part of the plan, and Moridin is willingly and actively pursuing this end).

 

The other prophecies, Dreams and Viewings referring to Rand's death, though, seem to be about a different event.  And Logain does appear to be tied to Rand's death.

 

I still think Rand will go properly blind and play the part of a beggar for a bit (if his brief walk through Ebou Dar was the fulfillment of that particular Viewing, I have to wonder why it was a Viewing at all), that he will die and his soul will be saved and placed in Logain's body (we know that the DO can do this, so it doesn't seem that big a step to think that the OP can possibly do this as well), probably with the aid of Alivia.  At this point, Rand will be able to see again, and he will weep over the grave of his original body.

 

Again, I think I agree, but think it will be Moridin's body.  Still, I'm starting to think the people that think LTT's dragonmount grave and his background voice-weeping were sufficient to fulfill the prophecy may have a point.  I've become undecided on whether that particular prophecy has been fulfilled... I thought the Fisher having a physical bandage implied a physical blindness, coupled with Rand's weird vision which is probably an effect of Moridin's TP use, but now I'm not sure.

 

I not entirely certain myself.  But its the first time, really, that there has been a prophecy that referred to metaphorical events, which just doesn't gel with previous prophecies that were far more specific once they were fulfilled (in fact, Min even thinks explicitly about this, when she considers how obvious the prophecy about Rand being marked with herons and dragons turned out to be, once Rand was actually marked).  So I don't quite buy that there would be a prophecy referring to Rand simply having an epiphany.  Also, the prophecy doesn't quite fit events.  Rand doesn't quite weep.  The winds are brief and of Rand's own creation, not part of the "final storm".

[Lewsdarren]

One thing I was hoping for in TGS was for Rand to recover the fat little man angreal. Anyone have a theory about how that will happen?

[Sentinel78]

One thing I was hoping for in TGS was for Rand to recover the fat little man angreal. Anyone have a theory about how that will happen?

 

Its last known location was Dumai's wells, where Rand refused to go digging around for it because of his trauma in 'the box'.  Taim and his Ashaman pretty much had the area controlled, odds are one of the Ashaman got it or it was just lost.  Maybe we'll see Taim using it in Towers of Midnight, that'd be a nasty surprise to Logain or Rand, whoever goes hunting for Taim.

[Sentinel78]

I not entirely certain myself.  But its the first time, really, that there has been a prophecy that referred to metaphorical events, which just doesn't gel with previous prophecies that were far more specific once they were fulfilled (in fact, Min even thinks explicitly about this, when she considers how obvious the prophecy about Rand being marked with herons and dragons turned out to be, once Rand was actually marked).  So I don't quite buy that there would be a prophecy referring to Rand simply having an epiphany.  Also, the prophecy doesn't quite fit events.  Rand doesn't quite weep.  The winds are brief and of Rand's own creation, not part of the "final storm".

 

True, Rand doesn't weep, but then again he's still up there on the mountain when the book ends.  Maybe after he laughs and realizes life is worth living again he thinks to himself "oh man, I killed a whole bunch of people as DarkRand, abandoned Bandar Eban with no food, not to mention almost nuking my Dad", and then cries. 

 

Regarding the winds created by Rand when he was about to nuke the planet, the book itself is called "The Gathering Storm", and the prophecy refers to the last storm being gathered.  So the events of this books are supposed to depict the last storm being gathered I would think, kind of by definition.  I don't think the storm is anything Rand did, but just the inevitable march to TG.  The guy in the prologue says the storm means the end is coming, which is consistent with Rand coming close to nuking planet.  However, he says he has to go north to face it, from the Borderlands, so the storm is TG, not Rand's near world-ender.

 

That all being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rand get his eyes gouged out, kick Moridin out of his body, find the grave of eyeless 'Rand' as Randidin, see again through Moridin's eyes and then cry.  :P

[jemron]

 

PLUS... Rand has sensed TP all along. He saw and cut the umbilical connecting Ishy to the TP, the first time Rand thought he'd killed ol' Ish-ka-bibble in EoTW. Maybe, crossing streams of balefire with Morrie the Mensch, not only created the link between them but also accelerated Rand's ability to touch the TP. Luckily for him in his moment of need. Not so lucky now that he needs to get rid of the ability.

 

I disagree with this too (sorry).  Just because he saw the black chords doesn't mean that he "sensed the TP all along."  Also, we don't know for sure that the black chord that was coming from Ishy in the EotW was the TP, do we?

 

Could it be possible that every channeler can have access to the TP if the DO lets them?  I think yes.  I think this is what happened.  It was clearly a foreign and "new" power that he sensed when touched the TP after being collared by Semi.  It was not familiar to him, was it?  I don't have my book with me, but I'm pretty sure it was something he had never sensed before.  I'll reread it tonight.

 

 

Here is what the book says:

 

 

Rand wailed. THIS CAN'T BE HAPPENING!  I WILL NOT DO THIS AGAIN!

Something snapped inside of him.  He grew cold; then that coldness vanished, and he could feel nothing.  No emotion.  No anger.

At that moment he grew aware of a strange force.  It was like a reservoir of water, boiling and churning just beyond his view.  He reached toward it with his mind.

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out.  It was gone in a moment.

And Rand found himself filled with an alien power.  Not saidin, not saidar, but something else.  Something he'd never felt before.

Oh, Light, Lews Therin suddenly screamed.  That's impossible!  We can't use it!  Cast it away!  That is death we hold, death and betrayal.

It is HIM.

 

I added the bold emphasis above.  Rand had never felt it before.  Also, I think that "at that moment" means that when Rand's emotions disappeared (something inside him broke) the DO knew (presumably through the link with Moridin) and that is when he suddenly let Rand have access to the TP.  This, to me seems very clearly like the DO's and Moridin's plan all along.  Get Rand to use the TP.

 

However, I do concede that it is slightly possible, but unlikely in my opinion, that when Rand "reached toward it with his mind" this could possibly mean that he reached to it through his link with Moridin who is "in his mind."

[gunnerstahl]

Has anyone brought up the idea that access to the True Power here is actually granted by the Creator? Maybe the True Power is power of the Creator or Dark One and they're relatively the same?

[fikkie77]

The True Power is too lethal to come from the Creator. So, no. LTT did recognise it as coming from the Dark One.

[elec1cele]

Has anyone brought up the idea that access to the True Power here is actually granted by the Creator? Maybe the True Power is power of the Creator or Dark One and they're relatively the same?

 

RJ has said the TP only comes form the DO.

 

DayTripr1: And also is the Dark One the only source of the True Power?

RJ: Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the True Power.

[Mr Ares]

We also know that bodies can live on without their souls.  A drakgar can suck someone's soul from their body.  Machin Shin, also, can remove a person's soul.  In fact, RJ was once asked how Verin was able to Delve the soulless Ogier while in a stedding (in tGH) and RJ said that didn't Delve him, but there are certain things about a soulless body that people can spot without the Power, and that we would be learning a lot more about this over the next few books.  Which suggests that a soulless body or two will play some part in the future plot.

It might have already happened - in WH it was noted that Perrin's soul was nearly absent from his body as he was so deep in T'a'r, and he felt cold to the touch.

[TheBeggar]

To those referencing Rand's sensing of the "Black Cords" in EOTW. I always took those cords to be males connection to the DO back when the taint was still a problem. I don't think that it was their connection to TP, do you think Asmo would have been allowed to use TP? No way. I think it was what the DO was using to protect the male channelers from the taint. Also, I think once the cord was broken on Asmo he said something about how he wouldn't be able to return to the DO now. Anyone remember something like that?

[jemron]

To those referencing Rand's sensing of the "Black Cords" in EOTW. I always took those cords to be males connection to the DO back when the taint was still a problem. I don't think that it was their connection to TP, do you think Asmo would have been allowed to use TP? No way. I think it was what the DO was using to protect the male channelers from the taint. Also, I think once the cord was broken on Asmo he said something about how he wouldn't be able to return to the DO now. Anyone remember something like that?

 

I agree.  It is also possible that Ishy was just using the One Power when fighting Rand at the end of EotW...  Rand didn't kill him at the end (obviously) but he did temporarily cut him off from his link to the DO.  I assumed this was his link to the untainted OP, not to the TP.

 

Though Ishy did have the flaming eyes/mouth which are side effects of overexposure to the TP, so who knows?

[lordofsoup]

bodyswap theory or at least something like it is looking nice to me after all that with the true power.  anyway, im glad rand laughed and made peace with LTT

[TheBeggar]

To those referencing Rand's sensing of the "Black Cords" in EOTW. I always took those cords to be males connection to the DO back when the taint was still a problem. I don't think that it was their connection to TP, do you think Asmo would have been allowed to use TP? No way. I think it was what the DO was using to protect the male channelers from the taint. Also, I think once the cord was broken on Asmo he said something about how he wouldn't be able to return to the DO now. Anyone remember something like that?

 

I agree.  It is also possible that Ishy was just using the One Power when fighting Rand at the end of EotW...  Rand didn't kill him at the end (obviously) but he did temporarily cut him off from his link to the DO.  I assumed this was his link to the untainted OP, not to the TP.

 

Though Ishy did have the flaming eyes/mouth which are side effects of overexposure to the TP, so who knows?

 

The fact that his eyes and mouth were flaming in later books gives more credit to the black cords being a link to untainted OP through the DO. If his link was broken he would need to use TP exclusively to keep from going insane or rotting his body. Which is funny because the TP does this in a different way. I can't remember did Aginor have the black cords?

[garion]

Aginor was sealed close to the edge of the seal so felt the effects of time and started decomposing.

[gunnerstahl]

Has anyone brought up the idea that access to the True Power here is actually granted by the Creator? Maybe the True Power is power of the Creator or Dark One and they're relatively the same?

 

RJ has said the TP only comes form the DO.

 

DayTripr1: And also is the Dark One the only source of the True Power?

RJ: Yes, the Dark One is the only source of the True Power.

 

Maybe Lews Therins impression and reaction when Rand drew on the "other source" of power was wrong and it wasn't actually the TRUE POWER. but some other power altogether.?

[jemron]

Maybe Lews Therins impression and reaction when Rand drew on the "other source" of power was wrong and it wasn't actually the TRUE POWER. but some other power altogether.?

 

You know, I've wondered that too.  It is unlikely, but possible.  There is not mention in any of that scene that what he felt was "evil" or "bad" or anything like that.  It just felt really good.

 

Why, after Rand had that meeting with Moridin specifically, didn't he recognize the face that flashed before his eyes when he reached for the "alien power"?

 

Still, I highly doubt there is a 3rd (or fourth, if you count saidin and saidar as one) power out there.  I've always assumed that the Creator works with the OP and the DO uses the TP.  The DO's power can be used by men and women alike, but the Creator's power requires men and women to work together or separately, with two different, but similar powers.

 

The power of "creation" has be done by men and women (procreation rather) so it makes sense that the creator's power is man and woman power combined.

[analyticalkeys]

Maybe Lews Therins impression and reaction when Rand drew on the "other source" of power was wrong and it wasn't actually the TRUE POWER. but some other power altogether.?

 

You know, I've wondered that too.  It is unlikely, but possible.  There is not mention in any of that scene that what he felt was "evil" or "bad" or anything like that.  It just felt really good.

 

Why, after Rand had that meeting with Moridin specifically, didn't he recognize the face that flashed before his eyes when he reached for the "alien power"?

 

Still, I highly doubt there is a 3rd (or fourth, if you count saidin and saidar as one) power out there.  I've always assumed that the Creator works with the OP and the DO uses the TP.  The DO's power can be used by men and women alike, but the Creator's power requires men and women to work together or separately, with two different, but similar powers.

 

The power of "creation" has be done by men and women (procreation rather) so it makes sense that the creator's power is man and woman power combined.

 

Is there any proof that this was Moridin's face anyway? If I recall, it said a face in the clouds.. to me, it seemed like it was the Dark One granting him acess to the power.. since the entire beginning of the book was dedicated to showing us how these clouds are gathering from the Dark One's increased touching of the world. I could be wrong, of course, but it just seemed like the first thing that popped in my mind when I was reading this.

[elec1cele]

Is there any proof that this was Moridin's face anyway? If I recall, it said a face in the clouds.. to me, it seemed like it was the Dark One granting him acess to the power.. since the entire beginning of the book was dedicated to showing us how these clouds are gathering from the Dark One's increased touching of the world. I could be wrong, of course, but it just seemed like the first thing that popped in my mind when I was reading this.

 

I don't know this is proof but here is the quote

 

A clouded face flashed before Rand's own, one whose features he couldn't quite make out.  It was gone in a moment.

 

I am really not convinced either way it says the face was clouded and he couldn't make out the features.  The Rand's own part is interesting did he think he was seeing himself for a second.  Are Moridin's look changing to make him look more like Rand I think their was a scene that implied something like.

 

Rand has scene a mysterious face in his head for a while. I think it is Moridin's so him seeing a face while reaching for the TP it becomes a logical conclusion.  I am not sure if their has ever been any confirmation that the mysterious face rand sees sometimes is Moridin's though.

 

 

[Zeffy]

I think Cadsuane knew that Rand would snap when Tam mentioned her.  She's crafty, so she she probably knew all that would happen.  Also, Rand is probably going to bow to the Empress next book as long as she promises to get food to Arad Doman, as long as they haven't all starved to death yet. 

[Ranglar]

Rand story was perfect in every way. I think there's no question that he hit absolute bottom. So often characters hit 'rock bottom' but they rarely reach the depths of nearly being forced to kill a loved one.

 

Then he sinks even deeper by BFing Graendal's little fortress with hundreds of innocent people inside. It's true that they were pawns of Graendal but Rand burned their threads from the pattern for all time! They don't get the chance to live again. Their souls are forever lost. That's horribly tragic.

 

Then he nearly kills his own Father. A man who raised and loved him from the day of his birth. A man who never mistreated him and taught him everything he needed to know to be a man both wise and true.

 

His reconciliation with LTT on the slopes of Dragonmount was the most moving scene in the entire WoT.

 

I'm pretty sure being balefired only means the DO can't bring you back, but you can still be reborn.

 

I think Rand made the right decision in balefiring the city, since Graendal would have gotten away otherwise. It was risky, but it seems to have payed off.

[Rand Skywalker]

I totally agree that Rand's story was perfect in TGS--in pitch, content, pacing, you name it. 

 

A major theme of WoT, perhaps THE theme, is the relationship between women and men.  I think it's apparent that to win the Last Battle it will require men and women working together and closely connected.  Lews Therin's group probably failed because there was only Saidin without Saidar.  I don't think the True Power, Saidin, and Saidar will be the "three in one."  Sealing the prison really could turn out to be something as simple as multiple full circles of Aes Sedai and Ashaman.  This combining of power could probably rival or overcome the Chodan Kal (at least, only one of them), and this was even mentioned. 

 

I think in order to get to the point of cooperation needed it will take a humbling of all the characters, including Rand.  After Veins of Gold, I think Rand is able humble himself. 

[karehiro]

A major theme of WoT, perhaps THE theme, is the relationship between women and men.  I think it's apparent that to win the Last Battle it will require men and women working together and closely connected.  Lews Therin's group probably failed because there was only Saidin without Saidar.  

 

Lews Therin's plan was better than the alternatives; if he actually worked with women both sides of the Power would have been tainted and the whole world would be destroyed.  It's a blessing he actually did what he did.  Latra's plan would have been an unmitigated disaster, as well as having women with the Hundred Companions.

 

And I don't think beating the Dark One himself requires men and women working together; beating the Dark One requires the Dragon, since he is the one known as the Light's champion and the one whom the Dark One himself counts as his eternal foe.

 

However, that's not to say that Rand himself won't need something in order to win, but that's something we already know of: We know that he needs both Perrin and Mat, and we know that he needs Moiraine.  Those were the only requirements for the Dragon to be victorious over the Dark One.  It was never hinted that working with a circle of channelers or even being linked with Aes Sedai would be necessary however.  And even fighting the Dark One was not hinted towards being a team affair.

[Sentinel78]

Lews Therin's plan was better than the alternatives; if he actually worked with women both sides of the Power would have been tainted and the whole world would be destroyed.

 

Yes, RJ actually said this pretty explicitly in an interview.  Rand needs a different strategy altogether.

[analyticalkeys]

Rand story was perfect in every way. I think there's no question that he hit absolute bottom. So often characters hit 'rock bottom' but they rarely reach the depths of nearly being forced to kill a loved one.

 

Then he sinks even deeper by BFing Graendal's little fortress with hundreds of innocent people inside. It's true that they were pawns of Graendal but Rand burned their threads from the pattern for all time! They don't get the chance to live again. Their souls are forever lost. That's horribly tragic.

 

Then he nearly kills his own Father. A man who raised and loved him from the day of his birth. A man who never mistreated him and taught him everything he needed to know to be a man both wise and true.

 

His reconciliation with LTT on the slopes of Dragonmount was the most moving scene in the entire WoT.

 

I'm pretty sure being balefired only means the DO can't bring you back, but you can still be reborn.

 

I think Rand made the right decision in balefiring the city, since Graendal would have gotten away otherwise. It was risky, but it seems to have payed off.

 

No, it's not just the DO. Balefire burns your threads from the Pattern... it's like you never existed at all.