Why Hasn't Rand Helped Mat And/Or Perrin More? (At All, Really)

[The Fisher King]

Sometimes I think we all forget just how amazingly Powerful Rand is...

 

With Gateways, Travelling, Fireballs etc...he could have made some of Perrin and Mat's recent adventures MUCH simpler!!!

 

Also, isn't it kinda weird how the three most important men on the face of the planet at this point in time (the three tav'eren) NEVER communicate with each other?

 

Fish

[Muad Cheade]

Sometimes I think we all forget just how amazingly Powerful Rand is...

 

With Gateways, Travelling, Fireballs etc...he could have made some of Perrin and Mat's recent adventures MUCH simpler!!!

 

Also, isn't it kinda weird how the three most important men on the face of the planet at this point in time (the three tav'eren) NEVER communicate with each other?

 

Fish

 

For Perrin and Rand's plan to work effectively, there was to be no communication between the two and Perrin was to be seen as being banished from Rand's presence.

 

Mat was sent by Rand to bring Elayne and the Salidar Aes Sedai to Caemylyn but we all know what happened. Instead of going with Elayne and Co when they left Ebou Dar. The Seanchan attacked and Mat barely escaped their territory before reaching Talmanes and the Band.

 

So in the case of Rand and Perrin, their plan could only work if they didn't communicate and in the case of Rand and Mat, there was no way to communicate even if they tried.

[WWWwombat]

Also, Rand couldn't go back to the Two Rivers because moving his plans for the Aiel and Asmodean forward was more important.  Furthermore, Mat and Perrin are old enough to be off leading strings.

[scott_swampy]

Sometimes I think we all forget just how amazingly Powerful Rand is...

 

With Gateways, Travelling, Fireballs etc...he could have made some of Perrin and Mat's recent adventures MUCH simpler!!!

 

Also, isn't it kinda weird how the three most important men on the face of the planet at this point in time (the three tav'eren) NEVER communicate with each other?

 

Fish

 

Simple answer for both. First Mat, Rand thinks that Mat is safe and sound with the band. He also thinks that the band is safe with the rebel AS. And he has this belief because that is what Elayne and Nynaeve let him think.

 

 

And secondly for Perrin it is because as far as he knows Perrin is either in negotiations with The Prophet of the Lord Dragon, or is escorting him back to Rand. And Perrin was too proud to ask him for help even though he could have easily. And Rand hasn’t spoken to him because they are supposed to be fighting at present and rand didn't want to give that away for whatever reason.

 

OK so simple may have been an over statement

 

Edit: sorry for the repetition but you guys posted while I was typing.

[The Fisher King]

Muade, by using Gateways and Travelling, there certainly ARE ways to communicate still!

 

JMO :  )

 

 

Fish

[Solarian]

Surely Rand and Perrin could communicate in secret? It shouldn't be challenging in the slightest for a channeler like Rand.

[Muad Cheade]

Muade, by using Gateways and Travelling, there certainly ARE ways to communicate still!

 

JMO :  )

 

 

Fish

 

Not when Rand Travels frequently and without telling anyone. The visions they have of each other doesn't tell where they are only their surroundings (rooms, people etc).

 

And if Perrin were to show up in the Royal Palace in Caemlyn or the Sun Palace in Cairhien (the last places Rand was publicly seen), rest assured the entire world would know very soon.

 

For rand and Perrin's plan to quite Masema and bring his Dragonsworn to Rand while also convincing Queen Alliandre of Ghealdan to declare publicly for Rand, the world must not know what Perrin's up to.

[Balefire to da face!]

Because Jordan needed to make Perrin run in circles for 4 books instead of Rand taking 10 minutes to travel to Masema and reign him in. Much better to send Perrin to reason with a madman then to go himself to someone who would be overawed by his presence to do whatever he told him.

 

To be fair, Rand has been busy in later books with....erm....ignorning Logain's warnings and bouncing from secluded spot to secluded spot doing not much of anything. Being a big procrastinator myself I can tell you it takes a lot of time and effort to put things off as much as Rand has.

[scott_swampy]

Because Jordan needed to make Perrin run in circles for 4 books instead of Rand taking 10 minutes to travel to Masema and reign him in. Much better to send Perrin to reason with a madman then to go himself to someone who would be overawed by his presence to do whatever he told him.

 

To be fair, Rand has been busy in later books with....erm....ignorning Logain's warnings and bouncing from secluded spot to secluded spot doing not much of anything. Being a big procrastinator myself I can tell you it takes a lot of time and effort to put things off as much as Rand has.

 

Too be fair since sending Perrin away rand has, um i don’t know, cleansed the source, Not to mention started and war, and then latter negotiation, with the Seanchan and, I could have my events out of order on this one, conquered a city And killed one of the Forsaken.

[Mr Ares]

Also, isn't it kinda weird how the three most important men on the face of the planet at this point in time (the three tav'eren) NEVER communicate with each other?

It's a little hard when you don't know where the other guy is.

 

Rand taking 10 minutes to travel to Masema and reign him in.

Except it wouldn't take ten minutes. Generally, they don't Travel in on top of someone, they do so somewhere out of the way. So you have to spend time getting to him. Then he has to gather his forces. That mmight take days, depending on how spread out they are. Then you actually need to bring him back. That's an awful lot of grunt work for the Dragon. Why not give the job to someone else? The first problems was that Masema (which Rand didn't know in advance) refused to Travel.

 

To be fair, Rand has been busy in later books with....erm....ignorning Logain's warnings and bouncing from secluded spot to secluded spot doing not much of anything.

Well, since sending Perrin on his way, Rand killed Sammael and took Illian, campaigned against the Seanchan, killed a rogue Asha'man, Cleansed saidin, and began negotiating a truce with the Seanchan. And sent troops to Arad Doman, wiped out a Trolloc army and ordered the Sea Folk to send food to AD. Of ocurse, he could have done what he does in the early books, and spent most of the time traipsing from point a to point b, or spent 4 months looking at various alternative versions of his life, but no, he actually decided to do something useful. What an idiot. And all you can come up with for him to not do is...ignore Logain's warnings? Wow.

[The Fisher King]

Mr Ares, you fail to consider both the size and rather unique peculiarities (unique peculiarities...is that redundant?) pertaining to both Mat and Perrin's Group...

 

Aes Sedai, while not uncommon at all in Third-Age Randland, are still very unusual and remarked upon and Seanchan and Aiel both are VERY unusual, obviously, plus both young men are travelling with ARMIES lol!!! Throw in Tav'eren Telapathy plus all Rand's minions that could search and it wouldn't take much time at ALL to locate his pals.

 

Also, in KOD we learn from Tam that a function of being Tav'eren is being able to find what you need when you need it - and Rand is the Strongest Tav'eren since Hawkwing...If he needed to find the other Tav'eren - he would, without too much difficulty...

 

See what im sayin?

 

Fish

[The Fisher King]

Oops. 'Thom', not 'Tam' - Sorry.

 

Fish

[Balefire to da face!]

Too be fair since sending Perrin away rand has, um i don’t know, cleansed the source, Not to mention started and war, and then latter negotiation, with the Seanchan and, I could have my events out of order on this one, conquered a city And killed one of the Forsaken.

 

Sorry, I should have been more specific then just saying the later books. He was active up until the end of Winter's Heart. Even if some of his plans didn't quite work out the way he wanted to. Going after Sam, stalemating the Seanchan, and cleansing the source are definitely important. I was referring to CoT and KoD.

 

Except it wouldn't take ten minutes. Generally, they don't Travel in on top of someone, they do so somewhere out of the way. So you have to spend time getting to him. Then he has to gather his forces. That mmight take days, depending on how spread out they are. Then you actually need to bring him back. That's an awful lot of grunt work for the Dragon. Why not give the job to someone else? The first problems was that Masema (which Rand didn't know in advance) refused to Travel.

 

"Prophet, an Ashaman will return to this spot in 7 days, have your forces ready to Travel and join up with the rest of my forces."

 

Why the hell would Rand have to sit there while Masema gathers his troops?

 

Well, since sending Perrin on his way, Rand killed Sammael and took Illian, campaigned against the Seanchan, killed a rogue Asha'man, Cleansed saidin, and began negotiating a truce with the Seanchan. And sent troops to Arad Doman, wiped out a Trolloc army and ordered the Sea Folk to send food to AD. Of ocurse, he could have done what he does in the early books, and spent most of the time traipsing from point a to point b, or spent 4 months looking at various alternative versions of his life, but no, he actually decided to do something useful. What an idiot. And all you can come up with for him to not do is...ignore Logain's warnings? Wow.

 

As I already said, my bad for not being more clear.

 

And yes, the best I can do is Rand ignoring the Black Tower. Truely the clincher for the Last Battle will be that AD has food, you know, not that the bulk of male channelers follow the Dragon Reborn rather then Taim. Also, is the Trolloc army you are referring to the one that attacked Rand while he was sitting around doing not much? I love how you make it sound like a grand campaign for Rand when it was mostly him being caught off guard, and then LTT saving his ass some some badass death gates.

 

Oh, and nice examples from the first two books. Because obviously I was talking about Rand's great strategic decisions in tEotW and TGH when he still had hay in his hair. I wasn't talking about his decisions in The Shadow Rising to study the Prophecies of the Dragon to learn that he needed to bind the Aiel to him rather then just run off and do what Moiraine told him. Or his campaigns in Cairhien and Andor. Nope, I was talking about his great stratgic planning on the Camelyn Road picking out which haystack to sleep in!

 

 

[sheikh chilli]

c'mon now. would you want some madman with temper issues to 'help' you out? A madman who sees you as nothing more than chess pieces on a board.

[Muad Cheade]

Why the hell would Rand have to sit there while Masema gathers his troops?

 

So you would rather leave 20,000 murderers, arsonists and rapists alone and leaderless?

 

Also, another reason for Rand sending Perrin is for him to convince Alliandre to publicly declare for the Dragon Reborn without him either forcing her to or the world knowing Perrin was there.

 

And yes, the best I can do is Rand ignoring the Black Tower. Truely the clincher for the Last Battle will be that AD has food, you know, not that the bulk of male channelers follow the Dragon Reborn rather then Taim. Also, is the Trolloc army you are referring to the one that attacked Rand while he was sitting around doing not much? I love how you make it sound like a grand campaign for Rand when it was mostly him being caught off guard, and then LTT saving his ass some some badass death gates.

 

Well, seeing how there are several hundreds of thousands of men in the armies in Arad Doman, food there will be very much needed. And fyi, most of the Asha'man seem to follow Rand and Logain. Rand doesn't care if Taim calls himself M'hael as long as he makes weapons he can use. Mr. Ares simply said Rand "wiped out a Trolloc army." Is that not what he did? Or were you reading a different copy of Knife of Dreams?

 

Oh, and nice examples from the first two books. Because obviously I was talking about Rand's great strategic decisions in tEotW and TGH when he still had hay in his hair. I wasn't talking about his decisions in The Shadow Rising to study the Prophecies of the Dragon to learn that he needed to bind the Aiel to him rather then just run off and do what Moiraine told him. Or his campaigns in Cairhien and Andor. Nope, I was talking about his great stratgic planning on the Camelyn Road picking out which haystack to sleep in!

 

That wasn't what Mr. Ares said. Re-read his post.

[buckeyebull64]

Rand doesn't want to talk to Perrin, they're supposed to be fighting.  And if Rand knew Perrin would end up chasing his tail for four books, he probibly would have sent more backup.  The idea was chat up the queen, chat up the prophet, come home.  Rand could not have known about the Aiel, or Masema's traveling adversion.  By the time it spun out of control, Rand knew nothing about the situation, not the least that they had moved into another country altogether.  Besides, Rand has no more need of Perrin at the moment.

 

As for Mat, he is under the impression that Mat is at Tar Valon with Egwene.  At this point, there's no reason taking away the (relativly) friendly Amyarlin's general when he's not urgently needed.

 

And in Rand's defense, since the cleansing, he has A)recovered (kind of a big deal, after that) (B) set up a war in Arad Domain.  Pretty time consuming, but apparently not note-worthy.

[singogreatest360]

He doesn't know they need help. Enough said......

 

[Phariah]

he doesn't know that they had needed help as other have already stated and also Mat nor Perrin have asked for aid either. Mat seems to be self sufficient and Perrin has proved so far that he is also. Mat and Perrin were to be set and have them take care of the situations that were set for them. if it was important Rand would have set up some sort of system he has in play with Bashere. and in a way i would think it was Rand's way of keeping them safe by giving them easy things, in his mind, to do. if it got out of hand they should have asked for the aid. Rand was quite busy for a awhile running multiple nations and planning war efforts and placating nobles.

[Mr Ares]

Mr Ares, you fail to consider both the size and rather unique peculiarities (unique peculiarities...is that redundant?) pertaining to both Mat and Perrin's Group...

You fail to consider that Rand is busy, and so can't look them up, and has no reason to, and they can't find him if they think they have reason.

If he needed to find the other Tav'eren

Key word: needed. Not wanted.

 

I was referring to CoT and KoD.

During the brief span of time covered by CoT, Rand is recovering from the rigours of the Cleansing. He still sends emissaries to the Seanchan to begin negotiating a truce. In KoD, he begins getting back into the swing of things, including making Darlin King of Tear, and his meeting with "Tuon".

 

Why the hell would Rand have to sit there while Masema gathers his troops?

To make sure he actually gather his troops, to stop him looting, raping and murdering? Why bother going at all? Why not send someone else? Oh, wait, he did.

 

And yes, the best I can do is Rand ignoring the Black Tower.

So you ignore all the things he does, in favour of the one thing he doesn't, because he doesn't see much reason to?

I love how you make it sound like a grand campaign for Rand

I make it sound like something Rand did, which it was.

 

Oh, and nice examples from the first two books.

Well, they are just as relevant. Rand takes a few weeks to wander from place to place, no biggie. He takes a few days to recover from Cleansing the Source (and channeling all of saidin), and you complain.

[Balefire to da face!]

So you would rather leave 20,000 murderers, arsonists and rapists alone and leaderless?

 

No, I would rather leave them with a Masema that has been reigned in.

 

While I will grant that Rand probably could not know just how unreasonable Masema would be(though from his actions in TGH and the word of how Masema has been acting since becoming the Prophet probably should have given him a clue) with someone sent by Rand, we have every reason to beleive that Rand should have understood just how important orders directly from him would have been. Even at the beginning of TDR Masema is treating Rand with extreme fanatical devotion.

 

Masema sees Rand as the light incarnate basically, if Rand showed up and gave him orders of what to do there is no reason to beleive that he would not have followed them to the letter. He would not have been leaving them alone and leaderless, he would have been leaving them with a loyal follower who finally had word of what Rand wanted him to actually frickin do!

 

Also, another reason for Rand sending Perrin is for him to convince Alliandre to publicly declare for the Dragon Reborn without him either forcing her to or the world knowing Perrin was there.

 

I do not pretend to remember Rand's exact reasoning behind this aspect of the story, but even if this was what he is thinking it's pretty flawed. It's like leaving the Aes Sedai alone with the Sea Folk, it doesn't work out well when you extract the Dragon Reborn from the scenerio. After what he has accomplished in books 4-6 Rand should have known that, and you would hope an entire nation would have been worth an afternoon of his time.

 

Well, seeing how there are several hundreds of thousands of men in the armies in Arad Doman, food there will be very much needed. And fyi, most of the Asha'man seem to follow Rand and Logain. Rand doesn't care if Taim calls himself M'hael as long as he makes weapons he can use.

 

Well, that's not what Logain seems to think, and one would imagine he would know considering he's gotten a better look at the Black Tower then Rand or even we the readers have.

 

Rand has Logain warning him, he's had assassination attempts on his life by rogue Ashaman, he has LTT screaming in his head about male channelers. And you're telling me it wouldn't be a good idea to drop by and maybe make sure that one of his biggest weapons for Tarmon Gaiden isn't ready to blow up in his face?

 

He left Taim in charge, what, 4 or 5 books ago and hasn't been back since? He's had multiple reasons not to trust Taim, and yet he has not set foot in the BT in a very long time.

 

During the brief span of time covered by CoT, Rand is recovering from the rigours of the Cleansing. He still sends emissaries to the Seanchan to begin negotiating a truce. In KoD, he begins getting back into the swing of things, including making Darlin King of Tear, and his meeting with "Tuon".

 

Which is not nearly enough. With his ability to Travel he should be doing more. He is the Dragon Reborn, sitting on countless powder kegs, with situations that are spiraling out of control all over the place, Tarmon Gaiden is fast appoaching, and he sits and waits for the meeting with "Tuon".

 

There are 24 hours in a day, and Rand should be using every one of them. It just goes to show you how slow the series has gotten in later books when you guys defend stuff like this. It would take Rand a couple of hours to check on the Black Tower, so why doesn't he do it?

 

To make sure he actually gather his troops, to stop him looting, raping and murdering? Why bother going at all? Why not send someone else? Oh, wait, he did.

 

*Puts head in hands*

 

So you are saying that Rand doesn't think a direct order from The Dragon Reborn would cause Masema to try to get a handle on his followers?

 

If that is the case, why the hell send Perrin? Because if Masema is not going to listen to the Dragon Reborn, who he sees as the Light incarnate, why would he listen to Perrin?

 

So you ignore all the things he does, in favour of the one thing he doesn't, because he doesn't see much reason to?

 

I just point out the biggest example. My last reread was 5 years ago, I don't recall all of the other things that Rand is neglecting. I do recall that there are plenty though, considering that the general theme of books 8 onward has been that Rand is losing control of everything he gained in books 4-7.

 

 

I make it sound like something Rand did, which it was.

 

Well, more specifically we were talking about what accomplishments Rand has made. What effort Rand has put into things. What goals he has tried to meet. Even if it was a pretty badass thing to do, I don't exactly consider slaughtering a Trolloc army that shows up at your front door to be one of those things.

 

Well, they are just as relevant. Rand takes a few weeks to wander from place to place, no biggie. He takes a few days to recover from Cleansing the Source (and channeling all of saidin), and you complain.

 

In the first couple of books Rand is a farmer who still doesn't beleive he is the Dragon Reborn. There is no reason to expect him to do anything like he is in the latter books.

 

Yes, Rand should be doing more now that the world is falling down around him, he's losing his grip on everything he's gained, Tarmon Gaiden is almost here.....yes.

[lordofsoup]

im just curious, was mat still injured when rand attacked ebu dar?  i dont remember mat mentioning it

[buckeyebull64]

Rand never attacked Ebou Dar, he just defended Illian.

 

Balefire, the reason Rand hasn't gone to the BT very likely has a rationel behind it.  Remember Rand's philosophy on traps: spring them and break their teeth.  Rand is likely waiting until Taim rebels openly, that way, he can kill Taim and all who declare for him.  Otherwise, you may sew the wound (Taim) but leave the infection (Darkfriend Ashaman).  Is it wise? maybe not.  Is it what you would do? no.  But Rand is both shrewd and arrogant enough for it to fit his thinking.

[Muad Cheade]

No, I would rather leave them with a Masema that has been reigned in.

 

While I will grant that Rand probably could not know just how unreasonable Masema would be(though from his actions in TGH and the word of how Masema has been acting since becoming the Prophet probably should have given him a clue) with someone sent by Rand, we have every reason to beleive that Rand should have understood just how important orders directly from him would have been. Even at the beginning of TDR Masema is treating Rand with extreme fanatical devotion.

 

Masema sees Rand as the light incarnate basically, if Rand showed up and gave him orders of what to do there is no reason to beleive that he would not have followed them to the letter. He would not have been leaving them alone and leaderless, he would have been leaving them with a loyal follower who finally had word of what Rand wanted him to actually frickin do!

 

Masema hears what he wants to believe and does what he wants. If Rand openly rebuked him, I doubt it would end with Masema following Rand like a puppy. Masema's right hand man, Ragan is as crazy as he is, so him not actually setting the mob/army loose is unlikely.

 

I do not pretend to remember Rand's exact reasoning behind this aspect of the story, but even if this was what he is thinking it's pretty flawed. It's like leaving the Aes Sedai alone with the Sea Folk, it doesn't work out well when you extract the Dragon Reborn from the scenerio. After what he has accomplished in books 4-6 Rand should have known that, and you would hope an entire nation would have been worth an afternoon of his time.

 

Not really. All of the nations that are allied to Rand are only allied because he conquered them. Alliandre sent him a very coded letter that basically said she wanted to be free of the Prophet and was willing to swear to him. If Rand went there, it would seem as if he forced her. If he sent Perrin without the entire world knowing and convince her to swear openly. That would cause other nations to do the same.

 

If Rand was going to send Perrin he might as well have him deal with the Prophet also. If Rand had Perrin deal with Alliandre and he himself dealt with Prophet, rest assured the world would learn of the latter and assume he forced Alliandre.

 

Well, that's not what Logain seems to think, and one would imagine he would know considering he's gotten a better look at the Black Tower then Rand or even we the readers have.

 

Rand has Logain warning him, he's had assassination attempts on his life by rogue Ashaman, he has LTT screaming in his head about male channelers. And you're telling me it wouldn't be a good idea to drop by and maybe make sure that one of his biggest weapons for Tarmon Gaiden isn't ready to blow up in his face?

 

He left Taim in charge, what, 4 or 5 books ago and hasn't been back since? He's had multiple reasons not to trust Taim, and yet he has not set foot in the BT in a very long time.

 

Logain says he has a private group of 100 I believe. That is well less that one-third.

 

How far can Rand trust Logain as Mazram Taim is a False Dragon just like Logain? Rand doesn't even know if he can trust him, which I'm not sure he can. Rogue Asha'man. Exactly. Not the rank and file Asha'man. Aes Sedai have tried to kill Egwene, Nynaeve and Elayne. Does that mean all Aes Sedai are bad? No.

 

From the Wikipedia article on Mazrim Taim: Rand is unable to kill him despite his treacheries because he is holding the Black Tower together for him to use at Tarmon Gai'don, while Taim cannot risk trying to kill Rand personally because Rand is more powerful than he, and any open action against him could turn Asha'man who are loyal to Rand against him.

 

Which is not nearly enough. With his ability to Travel he should be doing more. He is the Dragon Reborn, sitting on countless powder kegs, with situations that are spiraling out of control all over the place, Tarmon Gaiden is fast appoaching, and he sits and waits for the meeting with "Tuon".

 

There are 24 hours in a day, and Rand should be using every one of them. It just goes to show you how slow the series has gotten in later books when you guys defend stuff like this. It would take Rand a couple of hours to check on the Black Tower, so why doesn't he do it?

 

So him trying to bring peace to the world over an enemy who in an alternate world (one without Rand establishing himself as the Dragon Reborn) conquered the Westlands and destroyed the Aes Sedai is trivial?

 

So you suggest the Dragon Reborn not sleeping at all which would severely affect his ability to channel and function on a daily basis?

 

*Puts head in hands*

 

So you are saying that Rand doesn't think a direct order from The Dragon Reborn would cause Masema to try to get a handle on his followers?

 

If that is the case, why the hell send Perrin? Because if Masema is not going to listen to the Dragon Reborn, who he sees as the Light incarnate, why would he listen to Perrin?

 

Read above.

 

Well, more specifically we were talking about what accomplishments Rand has made. What effort Rand has put into things. What goals he has tried to meet. Even if it was a pretty badass thing to do, I don't exactly consider slaughtering a Trolloc army that shows up at your front door to be one of those things.

 

He's currently trying to get the world ready for Tarmon Gai'don, cleansed saidin, bound the sea Folk to him, halted the then undefeated Seanchan army from advancing and conquering Illian, killed those who were trying to kill him, anointed a successor in Tear, etc. I'm sorry. I thought killing 100,000 Trollocs with some amazing weaves wasn't trivial.

 

In the first couple of books Rand is a farmer who still doesn't beleive he is the Dragon Reborn. There is no reason to expect him to do anything like he is in the latter books.

 

Yes, Rand should be doing more now that the world is falling down around him, he's losing his grip on everything he's gained, Tarmon Gaiden is almost here.....yes.

 

Well, in the beginning books he had the support of Moiraine, Egwene and the other two ta'avern as support. Also, Rand didn't have two crippling wounds, wasn't growing increasingly weaker, LTT wasn't becoming increasingly stronger, wasn't fending off constant attacks on his life, nearly died several times, didn't face the full Seanchan army, hadn't been psychologically scarred by the Tar Valon Aes Sedai and the dark One's touch was growing stronger by the day...I can see how things could get harder for him.

[moroten]

Also, isn't it kinda weird how the three most important men on the face of the planet at this point in time (the three tav'eren) NEVER communicate with each other?

It's a little hard when you don't know where the other guy is.

 

Rand taking 10 minutes to travel to Masema and reign him in.

Except it wouldn't take ten minutes. Generally, they don't Travel in on top of someone, they do so somewhere out of the way. So you have to spend time getting to him. Then he has to gather his forces. That mmight take days, depending on how spread out they are. Then you actually need to bring him back. That's an awful lot of grunt work for the Dragon. Why not give the job to someone else? The first problems was that Masema (which Rand didn't know in advance) refused to Travel.

 

To be fair, Rand has been busy in later books with....erm....ignorning Logain's warnings and bouncing from secluded spot to secluded spot doing not much of anything.

Well, since sending Perrin on his way, Rand killed Sammael and took Illian, campaigned against the Seanchan, killed a rogue Asha'man, Cleansed saidin, and began negotiating a truce with the Seanchan. And sent troops to Arad Doman, wiped out a Trolloc army and ordered the Sea Folk to send food to AD. Of ocurse, he could have done what he does in the early books, and spent most of the time traipsing from point a to point b, or spent 4 months looking at various alternative versions of his life, but no, he actually decided to do something useful. What an idiot. And all you can come up with for him to not do is...ignore Logain's warnings? Wow.

 

Well the trolloc army actaully came at him when hiding so I cant rly agree that that was something of his achievements after sending Perrin away, more of a stumbling over stone only to find it was a lump of gold. Ordering the sea folk was something Logain did, sure Rand told Logain he might have spent hours doing so...and as far as I know not much negotiation has been made between him and the seanchan and I also think he sent others to set up a meeting while he himself waited in the stone. I agree about him not being useless but I also see other areas where his presence could have helped speed things up instead of lying about and postponing things.

 

[Mr Ares]

Masema sees Rand as the light incarnate basically

And if someone sent by the Light Incarnate told him to do something, he would. Why should Rand waste time when he can delegate the job to someone else, who can also do a far better job of bringing in Ghealdan?

 

It's like leaving the Aes Sedai alone with the Sea Folk, it doesn't work out well when you extract the Dragon Reborn from the scenerio.

Except Perrin is also ta'veren. So if it works for one, it should for both.

 

Rand has Logain warning him

Why should he trust logain over Taim?

he's had assassination attempts on his life by rogue Ashaman

Note: rogue. Taim considered them traitors.

he has LTT screaming in his head about male channelers.

LTT is insane. He was ranting about Demandred and Sammael around Taim.

 

He's had multiple reasons not to trust Taim

And they are?

 

There are 24 hours in a day, and Rand should be using every one of them.

Because sleep deprivation is generally regarded as the best path to victory. Overworking himself won't help.

 

So you are saying that Rand doesn't think a direct order from The Dragon Reborn would cause Masema to try to get a handle on his followers?

No, I'm saying that if he can be trusted to gather his troops in without Rand looking over his shoulder, why not just send someone else in the first place? Send Perrin with orders from Rand. Perrin can do the job. Or would you rather he sat around doing nothing?

 

Well, more specifically we were talking about what accomplishments Rand has made.

And slaughtering a Trolloc army is an accomplishment.

 

In the first couple of books Rand is a farmer who still doesn't beleive he is the Dragon Reborn. There is no reason to expect him to do anything like he is in the latter books.

In the later books, he still needs to rest.

 

Ordering the sea folk was something Logain did

On Rand's orders. Rand can't do everything himself, he needs to delegate.

I also think he sent others to set up a meeting

Of course. Delegating. He can't spend all his time negotiating treaties and truces himself. He needs to have other people do things.

lying about and postponing things.

What has he postponed?