3 days

[ONeill]

I don't have my books on hand, so bear with me,

 

Throughout the series, there is made mentions of 3 days. In the EotW when Rand and Mat go to the Queens Blessing, the innkeeper siad that he wouldn't believe that Thom was dead until he had seen his body 3 days dead.

And I believe Nynaeve says something like she believes that someone can't be healed even if there meant to be dead, they can't be heal unless there 3 days dead.

 

So after the Last Battle Rand will be dead, but this will be in order so he can rid of LTT and them Nynaeve will heal him just before the end of 3 days and Rand will live.

 

Your thoughts

[Luckers]

No, the Aes sedai maintain that death is utterly irrevocable... and Nynaeve agrees, reluctantly. Personally i think that if the new tecnique were used to heal a person not long dead, and they were resusitated, then it should work fine... of course this would have to take place before brain death and degredation left them a vegetable so the window would be between 3 and 6 minutes. (longer in the cold)

[Minnea]

The phrase "3 days dead" is probably just that - a saying, meaning "very dead"...

 

But there is so much of other stories, religions and myths baked into WoT... when I read that phrase I think of Christ being dead "3 days" and then resurrected (of course that was more like 40 hours than actually 3 days, but...).

 

I will not count out the possibility that Nynaeve, maybe together with that Asha'man who is good at Healing, will in some way Heal a dead Rand - or at least Heal him in a way so everybody will think he has been dead, but lives again.

[Mashiara]

I'm not sure where in FoH or LoC she says it, but I'm pretty sure that when she's thinking about trying to heal Suian and Leane, she says that everything short of death should be able to be healed. That's saying that she's pretty sure that death can't be healed.

[water_seeker]

Three days was the time given to see if someone really was dead. That's why in the Bible Christ didn't get to Lazarus for three days. That way, when he got there, ppl would finally consider Lazarus dead so when Christ raised him from the dead it was even more meaningful. Remember RJ uses stuff from myth and history to tell his tale.

[Luckers]

But not at the sacrifice of science and reason, which is his strong backgrounding. RJ uses myth and religious crossing in his character symbolism, not in constructing his plot... and of that i would say Christianity is used the least. Norse mythology, Eastern philosophies and the like are used far more heavily.

 

The fact remains that after 6 minutes of death the electrical degradation of the nueral pathways is irrevocable... it wouldn't be healable because that would require the channeler to know everything the person had ever thought and reconstruct that... you couldn't just start up the ion pathways in the axons and expect it to be the same person. They'd be mentally damaged... likely incapable of functioning at all, not even breathing.

[chuckievi]

Thats true Luckers, but death as WE know it is not when someone stops breathing, but rather when brain function stops. They have a different concept of death in the WOT. Given an extremely cold environment and optimal conditions someone could APPEAR to be dead, and given the current Age's lack of sophisticated medical technology/background, still be alive.

 

Not really sure how that would fit into the prophesy, but there it is.

[alEykamp]

chuckievi:

Thats true Luckers, but death as WE know it is not when someone stops breathing, but rather when brain function stops. They have a different concept of death in the WOT. Given an extremely cold environment and optimal conditions someone could APPEAR to be dead, and given the current Age's lack of sophisticated medical technology/background, still be alive.

 

I suppose that is what Miracle Max would tell us is the difference between mostly dead and all dead. Not much you can do for all dead -- but mostly dead may be revived with a chocolate covered miracle pill. The chocolate coating makes it go down easier. :)

[chuckievi]

Wow, haven't thought about that movie for a long time. *adds to his blockbuster online queue*

 

anywho, I really don't think we are going to see any kind of revival going on, I am a supporter of the body swapping theory, but we'll see. :D

[Luckers]

chuckvei, thats more or less what im saying. I beleieve that it is theoretically possible for a healer using the new form (which draws energy from the channeler not the patient) and the injuries were held, then the heart and lungs stimulated... then yes, within a specific amount of time it would be possible to heal death. Which would, as you say, vary in the cold and from person to person.

 

I was just suggesting there are limits... there is no way anyone could heal a man three days dead... there is simply no way for a channeler to accurately recreate the nueral-electrical impulses of the brain. The brain wouldn't be able to support breathing, much less complex thought (the heart has its own little thing that'll keep it running without the brain, the lungs and such dont, which is where respirators come from).

[chuckievi]

Luckers I know, I am just one of those picky types. As it stands I don't think I have disagreed with pretty much anything you have posted on these boards.... which is odd because I am argumentative. But back to the matter at hand the gaps in Randland's science compared to what we know would provide a pretty easy prophesy completion with Ny or someone reviving him after what appears that hes been dead a few mins. We shall see...

[Child Olaf]

Waiting three days to make sure someone is actually dead was common practice in the old days. People were frequently buried alive in centuries past because of the lack of medical sophistication. They actually had bells attached to strings in coffins so that if you woke up in one you could pull the string and hope someone heard the bell and come dig you out. I'm sure the "three days dead" line is just an expression.

[Luckers]

That was superstition... the guy waking up in the coffin. People in a proto-comotose state (where cerebral and vascular actions are limited to such a state that they might appear dead) would not survive long in a coffin... the cold and the limited air would see to that. And they certainly wouldn't be waking up. Frankly, laking medical support a person in that state wouldn't survive much of anywhere... at least, not in a way they could wake up from. Brain damage would likely occur with extreme quickness.

 

As for the waiting three days thing... it was religious. It was believed that it took the soul three days to leave the body in some places. Don't quote me on this, but i believe the practice was nordic in origin, and spread. It got quite common for a while, and people would stand vigils and the like to keep the person company while their soul departed.

[Gerrendus]

it probably wont be three days, i was looking around and part of the prophecies say

Twice dawns the day when his blood is shed.

Once for mourning, once for birth

(great hunt Chapter 26 somehwere found it on wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karaethon_Cycle)

so probably something else will happen there other than a miraculous healing after three days

[Guest Lord Captain Valda]

Eh to me "three days dead" is equal to "dead as a door nail". A catchy expression to show somebodys dead without saying "Hes dead!". Its full blown proof that theyre dead. They look dead, they feel dead, they smell dead...theyre dead. I read no psycological meaning into it. Just an interesting thought into your scientific mumbojumbo. Are you saying that with the knew healing techniques Rand could have healed that little boy in the Stone of Tear?

[Luckers]

It was a little girl, and if she hadn't been dead too long then yes. All Rand did was make her heart beat again though, he would have needed to heal her wounds and then made her heart beat.

 

This isn't a particularily magical thing... Doctors resusitate people all the time. Just because someones died doesn't mean they cant be fixed and resusitated.

[Guest Lord Captain Valda]

Thats going to make Rand really angry when he finds out she could have been fixed and made alive again. He has used that for so many launching off points as to what is possible and what isnt that I think has sort of held him back. I think once he finds this out his power will increase dramatically.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

Quote "No, the Aes sedai maintain that death is utterly irrevocable... and Nynaeve agrees, reluctantly"

 

The Aes Sedai maintain that deth is irrevocable, yes. They are wrong. Look at Moridin, Osan'gar and Aran'gar, and tell them that death is irrevocable.

[Luckers]

The Aes Sedai are not the Dark One, to them Death is irrevocable. Incidently they admited the power of the Dark One to rescind death, but as Lan states "Only fools pay that price"

[Bob T Dwarf]

I'd have to reread the passage to be sure, but...

 

I believe the little girl was beyond "Healing." IIRC, she'd been stabbed or hacked and had basically bled to death. Unless Healing includes some method for restoring lost bodily fluids, there would have been no bringing her back. There wasn't enough blood left inside her to carry oxygen to her cells.

[Mat is the Boss]

Noone would wait three days to see if Rand was truly dead, when any channeler with some ability in Healing, could verify his death by a simple weave.

 

And Moridin, Aran`gar and Osan`gar weren`t healed, their souls were put in a new body. I suspect this is possible because of their connection to the Dark One. When they died their souls didn`t pass over to the other side and into the Light, but rather held back by the Dark One in the Pit of Doom, or something like that.

 

I don`t think anyone will, or can, Heal death. I will be disapointed if this happen.

[Gidar]

Nynaeve has huge powers when it comes to healing.. who knows what she is capable of :lol:

[Mat is the Boss]

She probably is one of the best Healers living, and she clearly states that death is the only thing that CANNOT be Healed

[Gidar]

Well.. I agree with you but don't forget that this is fantasy.. i believe that everything can happen..

[Luckers]

It's a High Fantasy... the destinction is usually established by those authors set laws to their reality, and stick to them. The One Power is not magic, and there are things which are simply impossible.

 

Also, Sumeko is a better healer then Nynaeve.