Rand needs his hand back

[Arkelias]

Well technically its against custom, but not against the law.  It hasn't been done in 400 years, but I don't think they actually outlawed it.

 

Also, he said one of the most irritating women.  No one will take the crown of most annoying female character from Faile, not even Morgase

[Durinax]

I found morgase to be a well rounded character, who has trouble adjusting to the bottom of the food chain.

 

Egwene on the other hand, is a total bag. If she is so into law, and btw some customs are stronger than law, then why did she have sisters swear to her, especially through blackmail

[Arkelias]

Because she's a self important judgmental wench who picks and chooses who the law applies to?

[Seven of Nine]

Well technically its against custom, but not against the law.  It hasn't been done in 400 years, but I don't think they actually outlawed it.

Well, we may be debating the term I used (law), but when it's been viewed so badly they haven't had anyone do it in 400 years, that's a social faux pas of monumental dimensions. In my mind, it's the kind of thing that in some societies if not enough to put you behind bars would be enough to be ostracized (or by AS standards sent to work a farm for decades.

 

I would be very surprised to see Egwene justify what Alanna did and not give some serious penalty.

 

Also, he said one of the most irritating women.  No one will take the crown of most annoying female character from Faile, not even Morgase

All right. I agree that Faile has the crown. But Morgase's storyline makes me feel like I'm losing IQ points when I read about her and Tallanvor. Ugh! I know one purpose she's served is to put Galad over the Children, and I imagine something useful will come out of her association with Faile, but putting them together - - I just skip those parts in rereads now.

[Arkelias]

Hmm, I see your point Seven.  It may as well be a law.  You're probably very right about Egwene's reaction then too.

 

You also mentioned that you feel like you're losing IQ points when you read about Tallanvor and Morgase.  Unfortunately, you actually are losing IQ.  I hired a team of crack scientists to study the series and see if they could find out why.

 

They said that the IQ loss corresponds to the repeated mentions of Tallanvor's calves.  Every time you hear about them your IQ drops a little more, and we all know how often they were mentioned =(

 

In the reread I just finished I read every one of those chapters.  I now find it difficult to string together coherent sentences or to use words with more than two syllables.

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

i dont think morgase is a bad character to read about. of course she is having difficulties with her new situations (maid, captive, whatever), but eggy is a fool. i feel that she has spent the entire 11 books becoming whatever those around her want her to be. first it was a novice, then an accepted who decided she was good enough to be a full sister. yes yes i know it also got her respect because she was out of the tower, but she definitely took it as her due once she left tear. then shes the embodiment of an aiel apprentice, and now all of a sudden she is the all powerful, all knowing amyrlin seat, who believes her village sweetheart, the Creator's champion incarnate and the only hope of the light, needs a pompous self important aes sedai to tell him when to wipe is a$$. give me a break. he lacks some common sense, but he has one of the most brilliant minds from the aol in his head, and when he comes up with legitimate advice, its good.

 

faile absolutely blows as a character. she sucks the big one. period. brandon, kill her of asap. please.

 

Now, to actually comment on the topic of this thread, i think somehow rand will get his hand back. dont ask me how, but i think he will. he has semirhage, who was supposedly the greatest healer in the world from the aol, tied up in his closet, so i think something useful may come from her, if he can ever sack up and do what is necessary to extract the info.

 

does anyone remember when moridin is playing stones, in LoC i think? im fairly certain it is our first pov from him, and he is talking about the fisher being the most important piece. a point is made to describe it, and it is a man with a bandage around his eyes, and his left hand pressed to his side with blood trickling out. to me it fits, with the damage done to his eyes in KoD, the wounds in his side, and his face twisted in pain. i know its kind of weak, but from the first time i read this series i have believed that is rand, and hence he will get his hand back. after all, as the creators champion, he is paramount to the struggle between good and evil. it is also mentioned several times that if he would kneel, just once, to shai'tan, he would be exalted above all others, including the forsaken. i think it is pretty clear that that game of stones/chess (sorry too lazy to look up the real old tongue name) is the representation of the struggle between good and evil, and its all focused around the dragon.

[Seven of Nine]

You also mentioned that you feel like you're losing IQ points when you read about Tallanvor and Morgase.  Unfortunately, you actually are losing IQ.  I hired a team of crack scientists to study the series and see if they could find out why.

 

They said that the IQ loss corresponds to the repeated mentions of Tallanvor's calves.  Every time you hear about them your IQ drops a little more, and we all know how often they were mentioned =(

 

In the reread I just finished I read every one of those chapters.  I now find it difficult to string together coherent sentences or to use words with more than two syllables.

Well, it's a dang good thing I skip those sections now! At my age I need all the gray matter I can hang on too!

 

i dont think morgase is a bad character to read about.

Once.

 

That was plenty for me. I got the storyline the first time, and I haven't found a desire to read it again. Perhaps that's my bad (as I listened to bit my son was listening to in an earlier book that I'd forgotten about). But when I read Morgase, it's like those parts when Nynaeve and Elayne are in the circus. I just want to slap them silly (figuratively) and tell them to grow up.

 

I like Egwene's story (though she does irritate me at times), and for an 18-year-old girl who was raised in a little backwater town, I think she's done incredibly well.

 

Is she perfect? No, she's human, so of course she isn't perfect. There's not a character in this series that isn't flawed, but that's the nature of being human. At her age she shouldn't know everything there is to know because what's left for her to grow into?

 

It's like the idea of letting 16-year-old be president. We ought to let them while they know everything . . .  :P

[Arkelias]

To be fair Egwene really redeemed herself in my eyes in KoD.  Most of the reason I dislike her has to do with what she has to say about Rand.  Like Elayne she treats him like a moron who can't tie his own shoes, and she assumes she knows best no matter the situation.

 

Those are good qualities in an Amyrlin though, and I like the direction her story is going.  I just don't want to see her humble Rand >.<

[Jaric Mar Tedronai]

i hear you on getting annoyed with morgase as she gets more girlish, but as the series has progressed and were stuck with povs from eggy, faile and elayne, who dont have a full set of wits between them, i am relieved when a morgase pov comes up. yes, it is relatively simple and is a minor plot in the story, but some of the female povs in the series just leave me baffled as to what they add overall. anyways, you are absolutely correct in your statement that it was ok to read once just for a basis, and can be skipped over on re-reads.

 

to address the whole rand/alanna/eggy/3 musketeers situation, i am fairly sure that nothing will publicly happen. after all, eggy made myrelle swear her the oath of fealty for her and moraine's transgression regarding lan,  

[Seven of Nine]

To be fair Egwene really redeemed herself in my eyes in KoD.  Most of the reason I dislike her has to do with what she has to say about Rand.  Like Elayne she treats him like a moron who can't tie his own shoes, and she assumes she knows best no matter the situation.

 

Those are good qualities in an Amyrlin though, and I like the direction her story is going.  I just don't want to see her humble Rand >.< 

YES! On both!

 

to address the whole rand/alanna/eggy/3 musketeers situation, i am fairly sure that nothing will publicly happen. after all, eggy made myrelle swear her the oath of fealty for her and moraine's transgression regarding lan,  

Yes, but it doesn't have to be public to be very real for Alanna.  :D

[Balefire to da face!]

More irritating than Faile or Morgase?  :o

 

No, Egwene is really into the law now, and what Alanna did is seriously out of the law.

 

That is why she is so annoying at times.

 

Her commitment to Tower law and all that would go out the window if she ever found out and we'd probably get a "Well, even if it was against custom, I can't blame you for trying to get bit of control on him. He is running around with no idea what he's doing, it's about time we got some control of him"(ok, so I don't do a good Egwene, but that's the gist of what would probably happen.

 

One of her biggest character flaws is that she has moral standards and guidelines that go completely out the window whenver she feels like it. Alanna bonded a man against his will?! Atrocious! But it was Rand. Oh, ok...that's understandable, that woolhead needs a leash. On one hand she will uphold a tower lower without mercy....on the other, she'll bend the rules. There's a word for that; hypocrisy.

 

And I don't know what yall are talking about....I love Faile. I guess I relate a little too much with Perrin's character because I've always liked Faile.

[Seven of Nine]

I'm sure that's one of the things that's so appealing about this series with it's cast of thousands--there's someone in there for everyone.

[Balefire to da face!]

I'm sure that's one of the things that's so appealing about this series with it's cast of thousands--there's someone in there for everyone.

 

True.

 

I find that a lot of people dislike Faile and Nyn just as much as I dislike Egwene, so it's not like we are discussing facts here, just opinions. Just about any character can have negative things pointed out about them, and then others can say , "Yeah, but she this, this, and this". And to some people that is redeeming, and to others not so much.

 

Egwene has done enough to impress, but as a person I have always found her lacking. She is willing to throw away everyone she cares about for the chance of adventure and something new at the beginning of the series. Some find that brave and daring, I just find it selfish. She has this tendency to compensate for her shortcomings or uncertainty by projecting those things onto others. In general she has taken on too much of the Blue mindset of her plans coming before people. With Moiraine it often came off as wisdom, and a neccesity. In Egwene being younger, she seems to rush to act before having all the needed information and comes off as a child wielding her mothers broomstick.

 

Like I said, she has her positive qualities, and she's had some good moments, but all in all I don't like her very much

[mb]

Because she's a self important judgmental wench who picks and chooses who the law applies to?

'imposed' seems to fit the context better than 'important'.

 

Since Egwene was made Amyrlin (through a process that was as legal as possible), she probably has authority to judge Aes Sedia issues.

 

If she is so into law, and btw some customs are stronger than law, then why did she have sisters swear to her, especially through blackmail

With Myrelle and that other sister, Egwene explained her reason in the scene.

 

[Durinax]

as a leader who is supposed to be all good and such you cannot pick and choose who the law applies too. That is one of the main things I commend rand for, he imposed the law to the Aiel chief who killed a man even though he is a friend.

 

She does have authority over aes sedai issues WHEN they are in aes sedai domain, in other lands it should fall to whomever is in the highest authoritative position

[Locke]

Honestly, there aren't really any characters I dislike. Oh sure, they all (some more than others) do things that annoy me sometimes and embarrass themselves. (I don't like embarrassment in general with extremely few exceptions)  But I don't really dislike any of the characters. They're not people, they're characters written by an author who wants his characters to actually have problems and bad characteristics that make the whole story interesting. A mob of awesome people would just never do.  So I read and enjoy and respect every character. On a side note though, I actually do like Egwene and the character she is written as.  I only wish all Aes Sedai were as cool as her.

[Mr Ares]

I'm referring to the part that said 'know her wrath'. That doesn't sound like Rand just blandy taking it. That sounds like the world's worst upbraiding to me.

"Just blandly taking it" isn't Rand's style, but being cowed is even less so. He won't eat crow or kneel. He might well shout back.

 

faile absolutely blows as a character.

No, she doesn't.

does anyone remember when moridin is playing stones, in LoC i think?

PoD Prologue, and it's Sha'rah, not stones. Stones is a completely different game (also known by the Old Tongue name of no'ri).

[OptimusPrime]

The only thing I dont like about the damage Rand has taken is his eyes. Obviously, I understand that a fireball blowing up less than three feet away from you face would do that, just in case a certain someone misunderstands me YET AGAIN, but thats the one that surprises me. It just seemed... random. Blowing his hand off got the point across.

 

I started reading ASoIaF and quit almost immediately after a certain character "fell" out of a window. Too harsh for me, that.

[Locke]

This is just a little response to your sig Seven of Nine:  The game snakes and foxes refers to the Aelfinn and Eelfinn as the Aelfinn and Eelfinn are referred to as snakes and foxes (forget which is which. If you recall the chant you say at the beginning of the game (I can't remember the exact words but there is something about fire and iron and 1 or 2 other things) involve the same things that the finns always make sure you never bring with you into finnland. Remember in TSR when Mat was asked right after he entered the ter'anreal if he had iron, fire, or a couple other things with him.

[OptimusPrime]

Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind.

 

Something about the agreement the Finns had made hints towards these doesnt it? Cant remember exactly what was said though.

 

Could it be that Mat is supposed to represent courage, and Thom music? The latter seems obvious but it seems to me that Mat Thom and Noal will end up acting out some sort of live action version of the board game, with each one of them having a specific role in the game. Moiraines letter will flash in his mind just when hes getting angry that he cant figure the game out, and he'll realize that he has to break the rules to get Moiraine out.

[lordofsoup]

im confused, in the age of legends everything could be healed except death and losing the power to channel (i remember one of the forsaken being amazed that it could be done).  anyway, there is a way to replace rand's hand.  i assume grendal knows how and probable semi too.  if rand could just compel her, he could get some good info

[Locke]

I believe in TSR that Mat is asked if he has any of those things with him, implying that some of those things are actually objects.  It shouldn't be difficult to bring iron, something that can make music, and something that can make fire. Of course, I could be wrong. There are multiple ways of looking at the whole thing.

[Seven of Nine]

I started reading ASoIaF and quit almost immediately after a certain character "fell" out of a window. Too harsh for me, that.

I was getting worried about that series, too, OP, so I checked Wiki and read a synopsis. Quit reading after that. GRRM seems to like killing off his characters (that he makes me care about) too much for me.

 

I like a happy ending. Now a happy ending can include deaths, but they need to be satisfying deaths--perhaps "worthy" deaths would be a better description. I realize that not all deaths (too many actually) in real life are meaningless in that the person who dies doesn't do something noble or something. But I remember some of those dreadful movies from the 1970s very dissatisfying endings. I definitely don't want to see something like that for this series.

 

Courage to strengthen, fire to blind, music to dazzle, iron to bind.

Interesting that there are four you list but Moiraine says only 3 may come--no more, no less. So we have Thom, Mat, Noal, and . . . Olver (sneaking along)? Which would he be of the above four? Besides bringing Moraine back, will this trip do anything to further Rand's cause?

[Ashaman Kovan]

Interesting that there are four you list but Moiraine says only 3 may come--no more, no less. So we have Thom, Mat, Noal.

 

I think the fact that the three of them are risking their lives just by going to the ToG does well enough for the "Courage" part. Don't you?

 

Mats' fireworks are the fire.

Thoms' harp is the music.

Noals' knives are probably the iron.

 

Besides bringing Moraine back, will this trip do anything to further Rand's cause?

 

One of the few Aes Sedai that Rand has any measure of trust for coming back might help. Finding out someone whose "death" he blames himself for isn't really dead might bring back some small measure of his humanity.

Not to mention the information she may have gained while spending so much time with the Aelfiin and Eelfinn.

Or the information she may now have from the Rings of Rhuidean because of the way certain events played out that she knew had to happen one way or the other.

I know she said that she didn't see anything after her confrontation with Lanfear on the docks but she did say "Know". That doesn't mean she doesn't have guesses or that there were things that couldn't have happened afterwards but nothing she "Knew" for sure. So she wouldn't have been lying.

[Seven of Nine]

Interesting that there are four you list but Moiraine says only 3 may come--no more, no less. So we have Thom, Mat, Noal.

 

I think the fact that the three of them are risking their lives just by going to the ToG does well enough for the "Courage" part. Don't you?

 

Mats' fireworks are the fire.

Thoms' harp is the music.

Noals' knives are probably the iron.

I like that.

 

I notice you excluded my mention of Olver sneaking along. Are you thinking then that only the three will end up going? Olver must serve some purpose in the books. It's that thing about if there's a rifle over the mantle at the beginning of the story, it better be used by the end. :D I keep going back to Mat's thoughts about Snakes & Foxes . . .

 

Besides bringing Moraine back, will this trip do anything to further Rand's cause?

 

One of the few Aes Sedai that Rand has any measure of trust for coming back might help. Finding out someone whose "death" he blames himself for isn't really dead might bring back some small measure of his humanity.

Not to mention the information she may have gained while spending so much time with the Aelfiin and Eelfinn.

Or the information she may now have from the Rings of Rhuidean because of the way certain events played out that she knew had to happen one way or the other.

I know she said that she didn't see anything after her confrontation with Lanfear on the docks but she did say "Know". That doesn't mean she doesn't have guesses or that there were things that couldn't have happened afterwards but nothing she "Knew" for sure. So she wouldn't have been lying.

Plus what was the prophecy/viewing/dream (can't remember which) where it talks about Mat balancing two AS on a scale and giving up half the light to save the light  ??? Going after Moiraine seems to be a likely place for that to come about. And in spite of Mat feeling VERY strong the pull to go to Rand, it's sounding like this little side trip will happen first. Maybe Rand will be okay with it having taken so long when Mat brings Moiraine with him.

 

And since she seems to be the top name of Rand's litany, that should be really good news.