Towers of Midnight Speculation Thread (Spoilers for tGS)

[Asuana]

Hmm I'm liking this Messana as a Novice theory - Novices and Accepted were the only ones who could wander between Ajah quaters without being suspicious during Elaidas tyranny.

 

From pg 36 of What the Storm Means:

Mesaana was in the White Tower, pretending to be one of what passed for an Aes Sedai in this Age. She was obvious and easy to red: Graendal’s agents in the White Tower kept her well apprised of Mesaana’s activities.

 

Graendal’s agents reported that Mesaana is pretending to be Aes Sedai.  Unless they lied or were mistaken, this would exclude Laras and novices/accepted.  For them to keep her well apprised of Mesaana’s activities in the WT, they would have to know who she was masquerading as. 

 

 

why would Graendal's informants (most likely also black sisters - recognise her when neither Verin nor other blacks we have seen getting instructions form her did so - i would gues they are lying to Graendal.

They where probably trying to get favor, and where lying

 

Which is why I said, unles they were lying or mistaken.

[Brunqea]

Sorry if this has already been clarified, but I haven't been on the forums for a few years.

 

I dont know if this has been mentioned already, but who else can Gaidal Cain be but Olver,

Olver is too old, time doesn't go backwards.

 

Not to mention RJ denied it already.

 

Olver ain't Gaidal Cain. If he's reborn he's little todler SOMEWHERE.

 

Wonder what for Olver IS for however.

 

 

Out of curiosity when did RJ deny it?

[Shard]

Gotta love the WoTFaq:

 

Many explanations were proposed to explain this, but none of them were really consistent with the other information we have about the Heroes of the Horn and T'A'R. And anyway, RJ made the question moot at a post-COT signing in Dayton, OH [report by Tim Kington]:

 

    Q: Is Olver Gaidal Cain?

    RJ: No. I didn't really think that this would last as long as it has. The timing is wrong. He has another reason for being there besides being a red herring, though.

 

    Q: He's too old.

    RJ: Yes. Time in T'A'R and the real world run at different rates, but it never runs backwards. You may spend an hour in T'A'R, and a day has passed when you get back, or you may spend a day, and an hour has passed when you get back, but you'll never go in on Tuesday and come back on Monday.

 

    Q: Is the difference in time constant?

    RJ: No. It's fairly random. Sometimes fast, sometimes slow, sometimes the same as real time.

 

    Q: It's different for different people, then?

    RJ: Yes. Unless they're together in T'A'R. Then the same amount of time passes for them obviously.

[Thane9]

. Although, after the end of Rand's arc in tGS, the thing I want to see most is Rand letting everyone know that he's back to normal and the character interactions that come with it. I would love to see a real, more emotional reunion with Rand and Tam, as well as Rand apologizing to Nynaeve, Cadsuane, and pretty much everyone else (well... maybe not Cadsuane, but yeah).

 

/agree

 

I'd love to see Rand go back and unite the world not by being hard but by being human. 

[Vulgir]

Im excited for Loial to speak at the great stump, should be awesome. i still have a great image from TDR when Perrin asks Loial to watch over him and faile's bodies while in TAR, and Loial Rages about how she was so free, hes a badass.

 

I want to see what comes of Olver. i have no theories, just hopes that he gets more than a cameo like in TGS.

 

I'm also excited to see how the interaction between Perrin and the "New" White Cloaks goes.

 

[xDogmae]

....was posing as an Aes Sedai.  She can use the power to get the ageless look, the same way as they use it for disguises.  She either was collared by Seanchan, left with the BA, or has circumvented the oath rod.

 

Knowing how tricky Aes Sedai are, it wouldn't be hard for her to bypass the oath rod.

 

1. Take the 3 oaths

2. Say "I am not a darkfriend"

3. Think to yourself "I'm one of the Chosen"

4. Steal oathrod later and fix oaths as you please

 

Since to the Forsaken, being a Chosen is more than just a mere darkfriend, this would most likely let them get past the oath to tell the truth.

[coteaz]

Exactly. And even if they asked if she was forsaken (im not sure if they are aware the forsaken call themselves chosen) she can just say that she was not because she sees herself as a 'Chosen'.

[Durinax]

they should ask something like are you aligned with the DO or follow him in any way

[benr]

Verin says that Laras is "...many things, but not a Darkfriend.  You'd sooner find a Whitecloak marrying an Aes Sedai than find Laras swearing to the Great Lord."  The Chosen would not consider themselves Darkfriends, but she would have to swear to the Great Lord.  (Of course, Verin could lie...)

 

Verin cannot specifically state that Mesaana is an Aes Sedai, as Mesaana was too shrouded the two times she saw her, but doesn't say definitively one way or the other that she is or isn't. 

 

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

[Mkelly]

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

 

Im inclined to believe that Egwene is right about Messana still being in the Tower, otherwise she couldnt manipulate events. It may be that mentionning Evanellein was just coincidence, or that she has some part to play in the next book.

[wotjunkie]

Personally, I started believing that Mesaana isn't hiding as an Aes Sedai at all when I read the prologue. It probably isn't much of a hint, but she's wearing a completely white dress. Since Vering was unable to locate her, and Alviarin couldn't remember why she looked familiar, I'm guessing she's posing as a novice.

 

It makes perfect sense if all she wants to do is know what's happening in the tower. It means she doesen't have to change her face into a timeless one, and I'm betting Moghedien wasn't the only Forsaken to think "ya know, hiding is a lot more subtle when you're not hiding as a King". That would also mean she's still in the tower, just waiting to be discovered.

 

but if i remember correctly (and i may not), a time when Messana appeard to Alviarin she was wearing i think a bronze coloured dress or maybe copper, Alviarin could just see the hem of it i think

[Luckers]

That catch from Graendal about Mesaana being Aes Sedai was a good one.

 

I just wanna know where Danelle's at.  :(

[benr]

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

 

Im inclined to believe that Egwene is right about Messana still being in the Tower, otherwise she couldnt manipulate events. It may be that mentionning Evanellein was just coincidence, or that she has some part to play in the next book.

 

Mesaana hasn't been the most effective or bravest Chosen.  I think she fled as soon as she knew that Egwene was purging the WT of the BA.  Maybe the BA and Mesaana all went to Salidar.

[Thorn]

Personally, I like the idea that Mesaana's now bound by all three oaths, including the one saying she won't use the One Power as a weapon except against darkfriends or shadowspawn.

[Luckers]

RJ stated that one may create an Oath Rod in TAR and use it to unbind oneself. Not sure how that worked given they were used as binders on criminals in an Age were every Aes Sedai was trained in Tel'aran'rhiod, but he said it nonetheless.

 

Still, for all the Lanfear disavowed being a darkfriend, I don't think it could be pulled off under oath. Lanfear's dismissal was both pride and a desire to decieve Mat--but at her heart she is still a servant of the Dark One, a Friend of the Dark. I don't see it working--any more than Beonin couldn't say she'd not betrayed anything, despite wanting to think that.

[benr]

It seems quite likely that some of the AS taken by the Seanchan would be BA.  Some of the AS BA that Egwene thinks ran away are probably there.  Will the Damane be able to tell that they are BA?

 

If Moridin wants to save the BA sisters that have been collared, would he send "Halima" to lead that?

 

Would being collared work on Mesaana?  I tend to think so, and that would be fascinating.  She has made such a mess of the WT thing - actually helping in the reunification thing, it would seem - that again I could see the Dark forbidding any rescue.  However, if Mesaana could be bound by the collar, she would then become a terrific weapon for the Seanchan. 

[Luckers]

I agree, Mesaana as a damane is a shiny thought I've held for some time. The idea of her thinking herself so brilliant, standing above the world, playing both sides against the middle, then getting taken in an attack that has nothing to do with the Shadow...

 

It gives me happy warm feelings.

[Bob T Dwarf]

To answer one of the above points -

 

Nynaeve collared Moggy.  Semi collared Rand.

 

Mesaana could certainly be collared.

[benr]

To answer one of the above points -

 

Nynaeve collared Moggy.  Semi collared Rand.

 

Mesaana could certainly be collared.

 

hmmm - yes that seems pretty definitive.

[lillcheese]

Verin says that Laras is "...many things, but not a Darkfriend.  You'd sooner find a Whitecloak marrying an Aes Sedai than find Laras swearing to the Great Lord."  The Chosen would not consider themselves Darkfriends, but she would have to swear to the Great Lord.  (Of course, Verin could lie...)

 

Verin cannot specifically state that Mesaana is an Aes Sedai, as Mesaana was too shrouded the two times she saw her, but doesn't say definitively one way or the other that she is or isn't. 

 

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

 

I don't remember ever hearing of Evanellein before.  I thought RJ said that we had seen Mesaana's alter ego.  Who was Evanellein?  when have we seen her before?

[benr]

Verin says that Laras is "...many things, but not a Darkfriend.  You'd sooner find a Whitecloak marrying an Aes Sedai than find Laras swearing to the Great Lord."  The Chosen would not consider themselves Darkfriends, but she would have to swear to the Great Lord.  (Of course, Verin could lie...)

 

Verin cannot specifically state that Mesaana is an Aes Sedai, as Mesaana was too shrouded the two times she saw her, but doesn't say definitively one way or the other that she is or isn't. 

 

Egwene twice thinks about Evanellein as a sister that is not listed as a member of the Black Ajah but that has disappeared from the White Tower (once in "To Be Forged Again" and once in the Epilogue).  I think that the emphasis that provides fingers Evanellein as Mesaana.

 

 

I don't remember ever hearing of Evanellein before.  I thought RJ said that we had seen Mesaana's alter ego.  Who was Evanellein?  when have we seen her before?

 

For whatever reason, I don't have my copy of tFoH handy, but it has been stated (specifically by Snowy Dan, way back in March of '08), that Evanellein is one of Elaida's group of advisors, and that she was curiously an early advocate of pulling Elaida down.  So we have seen her.

[Luckers]

Ok, lets keep this in one topic. The Evanellein discussion is directed to the Forsaken Round Up thread.

[Thorn]

they should ask something like are you aligned with the DO or follow him in any way

 

Or, more specifically, "Are you Mesaana?," since Egwene knows she's there.

 

Comedy Option: Rand shows up and simply recognizes her.

 

Anyway, here's my prediction for the next book, based on this prophecy:

 

"Let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."

 

Rand's change of heart is going to result in Spring finally hitting, green things growing again, and valleys giving forth lambs (etc.)

[benr]

they should ask something like are you aligned with the DO or follow him in any way

 

Or, more specifically, "Are you Mesaana?," since Egwene knows she's there.

 

Comedy Option: Rand shows up and simply recognizes her.

 

Anyway, here's my prediction for the next book, based on this prophecy:

 

"Let the Promised One be born of the mountain, according to the prophecies, as he was in ages past and will be in ages to come. Let the Prince of the Morning sing to the land that green things will grow and the valleys give forth lambs. Let arm of the Lord of the Dawn shelter us from the Dark, and the great sword of justice defend us. Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time."

 

Rand's change of heart is going to result in Spring finally hitting, green things growing again, and valleys giving forth lambs (etc.)

 

Not bad.  The sun did appear above him on Dragonmount at the end.

[TwiceMarked]

Will we get to see Loial speak before the Great Stump and then see the Ogiers marching to war?  Hope so! 8)