Something about Thom Merrilin

[TrollocFodder]

So, deep breath, first post from a complete newbie...

 

Just re-reading the whole WOT from NS to KOD having read the whole once before a few years ago.

 

I'm struck by the coincidences surrounding Thom. It's either poor, unsophisticated writing (OK, discount that idea), or there's something more to Thom than the books tell us so far.

 

Coincidences/remarkable incidents I can recall so far (only just re-finished tDR):

 

1) Thom shows up in Emond's Field at the same time as Moiraine and Lan, Padan Fain, and a load of trollocs

 

2) Thom bests a fade (OK, I've read the other threads and this has been discussed at length - I can buy that someone as good as Thom with knives could beat a fade who wasn't all that interested in him, but it's still remarkable

 

3) Rand just happens to find Thom in Caihrien

 

4) Matt then just happens to bump into Thom in an inn in Tar Valon

 

It all seems too coincidental to me that Thom should just show up in far flung places at just the right time to play a significant role - sounds like ta'veren.

 

Are there other coincidences surrounding Thom?

[trakand_01]

Ya think?!  ;)

 

Yeah there's lots more to Thom than we think. Search for him on the search bar, you'll find lots. His supposed love interests, his past, and so on.

 

He's not your average Gleeman. :)

[Kadere]

1) Thom shows up in Emond's Field at the same time as Moiraine and Lan, Padan Fain, and a load of trollocs

 

The third prequel novel, if ever written, will expand on what's happening to make all these people show up in the same place at just the right time.

 

2) Thom bests a fade (OK, I've read the other threads and this has been discussed at length - I can buy that someone as good as Thom with knives could beat a fade who wasn't all that interested in him, but it's still remarkable

 

Thom was using daggers made with the One Power, and he doesn't so much "best" the fade as the fade takes no real interest in him because it's after Rand and Mat. The fade gives Thom a limp and then basically moves on.

 

3) Rand just happens to find Thom in Caihrien

 

This is mostly Rand's Ta'vereness, and Thom trying to escape and just be a simple gleeman again.

 

4) Matt then just happens to bump into Thom in an inn in Tar Valon.

 

This is mostly Mat's Ta'vereness, and Thom punishing himself over Dena's death and Galldrain's murder.

 

It all seems too coincidental to me that Thom should just show up in far flung places at just the right time to play a significant role - sounds like ta'veren.

 

Part of it is Ta'veren, just not Thom's. More Rand and Mat's.

[DemandredFO]

Where does it say Thom's daggers were made with the Power.

[mb]

The places Thom has been to in the earliest books, those to me does not seem to be remarkable since there was a considerable amount of time between the events and since gleemen travel.

 

More remarkable than the things mentioned in the first post about Thom is his political skills and his connections with channelers.

 

[Neemo]

Where does it say Thom's daggers were made with the Power.

 

blue sparks when he faces off against the fade  ;)

[Kadere]

Where does it say Thom's daggers were made with the Power.

 

Actually, I apologize, I amend that. Nowhere in the books or in RJ's quotes does it say what caused the blue flash, and RJ states that

 

[Malivar>If a Fades blade will not produce lighting except against other Thakandar wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, Why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?

 

[@R-JORDAN> thoms daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before thom reached the fade.

 

and

 

He knows exactly how Thom managed to escape with only a limp and how he managed to survive that. But he might use it in the next book and doesn’t want to give away anything.

 

So, no, again I apologize, we do not know that Thom's dagger's were One Power wrought.

 

BUT, my point that Thom did not "best" the fade still applies. The fade did not care about Thom, only Mat and Rand, and after giving Thom the limp left him alone. This is supported by Thom's testament in TGH. Though actually he could have been lying since we don't have his PoV on this. So hopefully Brandon, or RJ before his death, wrote this into the next three books.

[Tyrell]

having re-read that passage I think perhaps Thom channelled, I suppose it could have been Rand, maybe, but I don't remember reading him getting any symptoms like he had for his other instances of channelling. Though it doesn't exactly make sense that the effect was produced before Thom reached the Fade...

 

"RUN!" Thom sprang into motion, too, with a long wordless raor. Not after them, but towards the Myrddraal ... Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was half drawn, and both went down into a thrashing heap.

"RUN!" The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream

[Luckers]

Thom was clearly meant as a red herring in the first book--his reaction to Moiraine, his involving themselves with the boys, Lan's comments about him not being involved in the fight on Winternight...

 

But he was just a red herring.

[Kadere]

having re-read that passage I think perhaps Thom channelled, I suppose it could have been Rand, maybe, but I don't remember reading him getting any symptoms like he had for his other instances of channelling. Though it doesn't exactly make sense that the effect was produced before Thom reached the Fade...

 

"RUN!" Thom sprang into motion, too, with a long wordless raor. Not after them, but towards the Myrddraal ... Thom crashed into the Myrddraal before the black blade was half drawn, and both went down into a thrashing heap.

"RUN!" The air in the square flashed an eye-searing blue, and Thom began to scream

 

Unfortunately there are a number of RJ quotes stating that Thom can not channel.

 

"I brought up the hereditary point (i.e. Owen) but he said just because your parents have a particular gene doesn't mean you'll receive that particular gene. Also he made a point that Owen was his nephew so therefore not necessarily very similar gene-wise. When I pressed him again on it, he said (I'm quoting) 'There is no way in hell Thom can channel.' All he offered for explanations is that Thom is a 'mysterious man.'" (signing attendee: Edward Liu, potatoe@u.washington.edu)

 

4.  Q: Can Thom Merrilin channel?

A: Absolutely not.  I never intended anyone to think he could.

 

And no I would also agree that Rand didn't channel. Every time Rand channels in TEotW, until the end, Rand has a driving need to do it and RJ gives kind of an obvious description of what's happening internally as Rand channels. Plus he wasn't over near Thom and the fade, and the description of the event doesn't include Rand at all except as an observer.

[Discomandavis]

One power wrought daggers is the only thing that makes sense that wasn't denied.

[Kadere]

One power wrought daggers is the only thing that makes sense that wasn't denied.

 

But it was denied.

 

[Malivar>If a Fades blade will not produce lighting except against other Thakandar wrought blades, and power-wrought blades, Why do Thom's daggers produce it when he attacks the Fade at Whitebridge?

 

[@R-JORDAN> thoms daggers did not produce the effect. It was produced before thom reached the fade.

[Neemo]

if it's not thoms daggers then the only other option was rand inadvertently channeling...he didnt get sick when he channelled into bela did he?

[Kadere]

if it's not thoms daggers then the only other option was rand inadvertently channeling...he didnt get sick when he channelled into bela did he?

 

Yes he did. That was when he started feeling sick and crazy in Baerlon when Mat attacks the Whitecloaks.

[Neemo]

well to be fair .... RJ spends very little time with Mat and Rand from White Bridge to Four Kings, so its possible that we didnt get to witness the sickness that time

[Kadere]

You mean besides Chapter 31 which chronicles all of their adventures from Whitebridge to Four Kings? I think if Rand got ill it'd be important enough to mention even off hand, as it's gone into in detail every other time he actually channels.

[redbj]

there are plenty of question marks on him, thats for sure.....

 

but the first one needs answering is...why didnt he fight on wintersnight?...given his prowess and morals in the later books?

 

i cant even begin to speculate.

[Phariah]

don't forget Thom was a wanted man in Andor, so he didn't need any undo attention from fighting trollocs but he apparently did fight. Bran comments that he must have been there because he didn't get singed from sitting in front of the fireplace, and as we seen Thom was sitting infront of the Inn trimming the burnt patches from his cloak.

[redbj]

when i re read the books, and take into consideration jordans style....im more inclined to think thats a hint he DIDNT fight than he did.

 

Thom, publically showing he did fight, yet no one saw him.odd.very odd.

[DemandredFO]

The blue flash and the resultant limp Thom had from the fade could also be an error.  As has be well-posted on DM the first three books aren't entirely reliable on all points.  The Shimmer Travel method comes to mind, so it could be an error.

[Kadere]

RJ's statement that he knows exactly what happened when Thom attacked the fade and would (have) liked to tell more on it in the next book seem to validate that the scene wasn't a mistake, but that we just haven't figured out what happened.

[Jameric]

I cant remember exactly where, but RJ was quoted as replying that Thom's best daggers where very special indeed, thus implying there where made with the One Power, that why people are saying that.

[Mik]

RJ's statement that he knows exactly what happened when Thom attacked the fade and would (have) liked to tell more on it in the next book seem to validate that the scene wasn't a mistake, but that we just haven't figured out what happened.

What if the Myrddraal did it?

Think 'Haran 0.5'?

 

A slowly striding fade appeared in the middle of a big open square in broad daylight within seconds.

Sounds like a fade who had more tricks up his sleeve then riding a shadow...?

 

 

[TrollocFodder]

Something else that occured to me...

 

Thom wass a renowned Court Bard and killed Moiraine's half-brother. When he shows up in Emond's Field in TEOTW, wouldn't we expect Moiraine to know him? Even if she doesn't know his face she'd have heard the name wouldn't she?

[Luckers]

She very well may have--she accepted him into the crew with a degree of sanguinity that even surprised Lan. And in tSR she slaps him around with his history.