What if Moiraine... Crazy theory

[magnutz]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

[OptimusPrime]

Depends how likely you think 13 Myrdraal and another 12 Darkfriend channelers being on the other side of the doorway is. Plus Moiraine taught Rand how to rule, not fight.

 

We've been waiting for Moiraine too long; something like this would spoil her return.

[magnutz]

Depends how likely you think 13 Myrdraal and another 12 Darkfriend channelers being on the other side of the doorway is. Plus Moiraine taught Rand how to rule, not fight.

 

We've been waiting for Moiraine too long; something like this would spoil her return.

 

Yes it would really spoil her return.. But who can say what happens on the other side of that door frame?! Perhaps Moiraine knew she would return but not to help Rand - she would return to undermine his rule. Throw all her tricks in his path. She taught Rand how to govern, to master the social intricacies of court life and so on. She knew he has to master the Ruler's Skills because she is going to wreak havoc in the world when she returns. ;) Just a crazy theory. ;)

[OptimusPrime]

Depends how likely you think 13 Myrdraal and another 12 Darkfriend channelers being on the other side of the doorway is. Plus Moiraine taught Rand how to rule, not fight.

 

We've been waiting for Moiraine too long; something like this would spoil her return.

 

Yes it would really spoil her return.. But who can say what happens on the other side of that door frame?! Perhaps Moiraine knew she would return but not to help Rand - she would return to undermine his rule. Throw all her tricks in his path. She taught Rand how to govern, to master the social intricacies of court life and so on. She knew he has to master the Ruler's Skills because she is going to wreak havoc in the world when she returns. ;) Just a crazy theory. ;)

 

It would only be good if she didnt die, if she was forceably turned and a way to turn her back popped up. I wouldnt mind that because everything happens for a reason in this world, and Moiraine becoming Dark would only happen for a reason, a purpose. Like her finding out something from the inside.

 

Maybe Moiraine will reveal that the Forsaken are being reincarnated.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Except for the fact that there is absolutely nothing to suggest anything remotely resembling your scenario could or would happen.

[OptimusPrime]

Except for the fact that there is absolutely nothing to suggest anything remotely resembling your scenario could or would happen.

 

Its a good job Im not expecting it then isnt it

[Thanatos]

I would be very conflicted if Moiraine turned out to come back under the DO.  On one hand, the ultimate "good" character turning against Rand would be captivating after all she has done for Rand and the rest.  On the other hand, it would be too much like Star Wars for my liking.  It would be one hell of a plot twist though wouldn't it?

[OptimusPrime]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

[magnutz]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

 

Not sure but even if she said that she's Aes Sedai... Perhaps she saw and all too clearly. I listened to an episode of the 4th Age pod cast and they discussed who, among the Light Walkers, would be the one to turn to the Dark One. Someone will, they thought, turn out to be a 100% swine.

 

My crazy theory has, at least at the moment, only one piece of "proof" and I argue (crazily) that Moiraine at least knows who that will be (if not herself) and rushes Rand through a crash course in Governments and their Functions to enable Rand to stabilize his reign enough so that when she blazes forth from the Other Dimension like a bat out of Hell (hehe) he will be ready for her. Yeah! :)

[JenLenaMom]

What Moraine said to Rand was that she could only see one other thing after her disappearance but it wasn't concerning him.

 

She meant she knew that Thom, Mat and one other would come find her.

[OptimusPrime]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

 

Not sure but even if she said that she's Aes Sedai

 

Ah yes of course... she cant speak a lie but she can write them-we have seen Verins thoughts mention writing a letter contradictory to her words.

 

What Moraine said to Rand was that she could only see one other thing after her disappearance but it wasn't concerning him.

 

She meant she knew that Thom, Mat and one other would come find her.

 

Thanks for finding it. The reason I asked was because I put weight in her words based on the inability to lie, which doesnt apply here because any potential lie was written not spoken. I thought she had clarified somewhere but it being written means nothing is clarified after all. Never mind.

[Ashaman Kovan]

Except for the fact that there is absolutely nothing to suggest anything remotely resembling your scenario could or would happen.

 

Its a good job Im not expecting it then isnt it

 

It is, yes. :)

[LedZepMan]

Yeah, I doubt that this will happen. It just seems too unlikely to me. Although it is a great theory, I just don't see it happening.

 

And as to the one person who turns from light to dark, unless it has already been discovered and I am living in the dark ages, I am hoping that it is Gawyn, and that Rand or Mat kills him. I don't know what it is, but i just cannot stand his PoV's. I just don't like the guy.

[mb]

There seems a slight chance that Moiraine would be forced to the Shadow.

The process I think would require some time; and the Myrddraal would probably be killed before the process could become done.

 

Gawyn turning to the shadow (on his own or by Compulsion), there seems a slight chance of that also.  His POVs seem to indicate a Light sided person.

Gawyn cannot die until Egwene bonds him. (a Dream)

 

Moiraine's death (and resurrection) seems more probable than she being forced to the Shadow.

 

[dholm]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

 

Not sure but even if she said that she's Aes Sedai

 

Ah yes of course... she cant speak a lie but she can write them-we have seen Verins thoughts mention writing a letter contradictory to her words.

 

Uh? It has been said repeatedly that Aes Sedai cannot lie in writing either. I can't recall Verin lying in a letter. Could you provide the source?

[Knightscape]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

If Moraine is worried about Rand surviving her return, then why would she send a letter to Thom requesting aid in escaping.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

There seems a slight chance that Moiraine would be forced to the Shadow.

The process I think would require some time; and the Myrddraal would probably be killed before the process could become done.

 

Gawyn turning to the shadow, there seems a slight chance of that also.  His POVs seem to indicate a Light sided person.

Gawyn cannot die until Egwene bonds him. (a Dream)

 

Moiraine's death (and resurrection) seems more probable than she being forced to the Shadow.

 

 

mb, you forget that being forcibly turned to the Shadow can only happen to a channeler.

[moroten]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

If Moraine is worried about Rand surviving her return, then why would she send a letter to Thom requesting aid in escaping.

 

Finally a reasoneable response.

[fikkie77]

Moiraine can't be turned by the way we know it to be possible. There just weren't 12 other channelers + 13 Myrddraal in Finnland!

 

There are 2 possibilities for Moiraine to be turned to the Shadow:

1. There's another way of being turned to the shadow against your will of which we don't know yet. (unlikely and it has to be possible in Finnland)

2. Moiraine died, was ressurrected by the Dark One and turned at Shayol Ghul.

 

The latter seems possible, though how on earth would the DO recognise Moiraine's soul te be important among all other deceased? (he would probbaly recognise his own)

Beside that problem, this possibility would make any rescue attempt on the Tower of Ghenjei futile, because she would not be there any longer.

[OptimusPrime]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

 

Not sure but even if she said that she's Aes Sedai

 

 

Ah yes of course... she cant speak a lie but she can write them-we have seen Verins thoughts mention writing a letter contradictory to her words.

 

Uh? It has been said repeatedly that Aes Sedai cannot lie in writing either. I can't recall Verin lying in a letter. Could you provide the source?

 

It wasnt a lie as such, but she intended to write a note telling Rand something that she told someone she wouldnt "say" anything about. I shouldnt really have called it a lie, but a misleading. Here it is anyway.

 

Path of Daggers p21, Deceptive Appearances, Verins PoV

 

Aeron did not go, however, not immediately. "You will not speak of Katerine Alruddin to the Car'a'carn," she said. "He has enough to occupy hia thoughts without giving him trifles to worry over."

 

"I will say nothing to him about her," Verin agreed quickly. Trifles? A Red with Ketrine's strength was no trifle. Perhaps a note. It needed thought.

 

As I said I shouldnt have called it a lie, she just said she wouldnt "say" something and considered writing it instead. Here and other parts of this scene Verins PoV gives us a very good look into the way the Oath works. Moiraine could easily have twisted her wording of her letter about the future if she felt she needed to. We wouldnt ever know unless we knew something of what truth she might have been dodging around, if any.

 

All this having been said, I dont think Moiraine will be doing any of this sort of lying, I really cant see her coming back with any motives other than to help the Light win the Last Battle.

[Padraic_Seebrr]

Wait a minute, did Moiraine not say in one of the letters that she couldnt see past going through the doorway?

 

Not sure but even if she said that she's Aes Sedai

 

 

Ah yes of course... she cant speak a lie but she can write them-we have seen Verins thoughts mention writing a letter contradictory to her words.

 

Uh? It has been said repeatedly that Aes Sedai cannot lie in writing either. I can't recall Verin lying in a letter. Could you provide the source?

 

It wasnt a lie as such, but she intended to write a note telling Rand something that she told someone she wouldnt "say" anything about. I shouldnt really have called it a lie, but a misleading. Here it is anyway.

 

Path of Daggers p21, Deceptive Appearances, Verins PoV

 

Aeron did not go, however, not immediately. "You will not speak of Katerine Alruddin to the Car'a'carn," she said. "He has enough to occupy hia thoughts without giving him trifles to worry over."

 

"I will say nothing to him about her," Verin agreed quickly. Trifles? A Red with Ketrine's strength was no trifle. Perhaps a note. It needed thought.

 

As I said I shouldnt have called it a lie, she just said she wouldnt "say" something and considered writing it instead. Here and other parts of this scene Verins PoV gives us a very good look into the way the Oath works. Moiraine could easily have twisted her wording of her letter about the future if she felt she needed to. We wouldnt ever know unless we knew something of what truth she might have been dodging around, if any.

 

All this having been said, I dont think Moiraine will be doing any of this sort of lying, I really cant see her coming back with any motives other than to help the Light win the Last Battle.

 

Well thats not a lie, thats an unfortunate choice of wording by a Wise One. Note - "You will not speak -"

[Matrim DeLaneous]

I just had a thought. You all know that Moiraine, prior to getting herself trapped/killed/? fighting Lanfear, tried to teach Rand all she knew of importance? Good. She was frantic about it! "There are so may things you must know... and so little time!" Anyhow, here's my crazy idea:

 

Moiraine had gotten some really disturbing answers from the visit in the "Doorframe world" and one was (might have been in crazy theory world) that she was going to be turned to the Dark One's side inside that doorframe world. This is why she had to teach Rand all she knew - for him to survive her attacks later when she had been rescued. Oh, but how can Mat and the others save her if she have been turned? Easy. She fakes being with them and walking in the Light. Then she goes after them.. one by one. :)

 

That was it!

 

Kinda flies in the face of Min's viewing that Rand's success relies upon Moiraine being there?

[dholm]

It wasnt a lie as such, but she intended to write a note telling Rand something that she told someone she wouldnt "say" anything about. I shouldnt really have called it a lie, but a misleading. Here it is anyway.

 

Path of Daggers p21, Deceptive Appearances, Verins PoV

 

Aeron did not go, however, not immediately. "You will not speak of Katerine Alruddin to the Car'a'carn," she said. "He has enough to occupy hia thoughts without giving him trifles to worry over."

 

"I will say nothing to him about her," Verin agreed quickly. Trifles? A Red with Ketrine's strength was no trifle. Perhaps a note. It needed thought.

 

As I said I shouldnt have called it a lie, she just said she wouldnt "say" something and considered writing it instead. Here and other parts of this scene Verins PoV gives us a very good look into the way the Oath works. Moiraine could easily have twisted her wording of her letter about the future if she felt she needed to. We wouldnt ever know unless we knew something of what truth she might have been dodging around, if any.

 

All this having been said, I dont think Moiraine will be doing any of this sort of lying, I really cant see her coming back with any motives other than to help the Light win the Last Battle.

 

 

That's just standard Aes Sedai truth-twisting.

[Mystica]

sorry if this has been said before, I haven't read all the posts as I'm tired. Just wanted to point out that Moiraine wrote that letter to Thom before she went through the doorway. While she was still fully commited to the Light.

 

So if this theory were correct, knowing Moiraine, she would probably not have asked Thom to come and rescue her. More likely, she would have disclosed that information along with all the info she felt needed to be known by Rand and his loyal gang as a way to assure her knowledge being used for the Light, eventhough she would be doomed to Darkness.

 

She certainly would not ask Thom to come rescue her if that meant he would be rescueing a newly made Dreadlady.

[mb]

There seems a slight chance that Moiraine would be forced to the Shadow.

The process I think would require some time; and the Myrddraal would probably be killed before the process could become done.

 

Gawyn turning to the shadow, there seems a slight chance of that also.  His POVs seem to indicate a Light sided person.

Gawyn cannot die until Egwene bonds him. (a Dream)

 

Moiraine's death (and resurrection) seems more probable than she being forced to the Shadow.

mb, you forget that being forcibly turned to the Shadow can only happen to a channeler.

I did not forget that; nor have I contradicted it.  I modified the message.

'turning' is the term I use when it is the character's action (character's own choice or Compulsion used on the character).