flying using the one power

[taters]

i was led to believe that you cannot fly using the OP, backed up by RJ saying no and siuan telling nynaeve in book 2, but since you can lift other people off the ground. surly two complying channelers could lift each other. Would this work, and would it constitute as flying?

[Garat Jax]

You and a mate tand next to each other and try to lift each other off the floor at the same time. You'll get the same result.

[Incubate]

that might not work, but what if it was something like Skimming?

 

weave a small disk of air, maybe with a bit of Earth if need be, and then stand on it, you can move the disk about as you please, it wouldn't actually be "flying", but close enough

[Besolyn]

What if flying with the OP requires knowledge of the earth’s forces and how they interact? Remember the large floating sphere (Collam Daan) from the AOL that was held in place with only the earth’s magnetic field supporting it? Also one of the female Forsaken (Mesaana or Semirhage, can’t remember which) prided herself on her knowledge of balance and pressures.

[Jarred Darque]

They have mentioned limitations on how high you can lift a person or thing into the air. I dont think it is based on strength, but it does differ person to person.

 

Rand also mentions this about building a bridge out of fire and air that he can only make it so long, and doesnt seem to be related to strength in the one power.

 

so no, this wouldnot work.

 

the way to do it though would to be to build basically a helicopter without engines, and use the one poewr to spin the rotors.

[Besolyn]

I remember in one of the earlier books an Aes Sedai said that it was said (emphasis mine) that Aes Sedai in the AOL could fly, but no one knows how any longer.

Don't know if that was a fact or maybe just a legend.

[Ehecatl]

I recall something like that as well, but I figured that was just a distortion of the AoL's planes (showings I think they were called)

[Guest Majsju]

I remember in one of the earlier books an Aes Sedai said that it was said (emphasis mine) that Aes Sedai in the AOL could fly, but no one knows how any longer.

Don't know if that was a fact or maybe just a legend.

 

Misinterpreting documents from the AOL.

 

An Aes Sedai studies a document from the AOL where it says that someone flew somewhere. The Aes Sedai of the 3rd Age can't even imagine the technological "marvels" of the AOL, in their world everything marvellous is done with the OP. And the person writing the document in the AOL has no reason to write how the flying was done, because he or she was writing for an audience who already knew that.

[taters]

I guess they'll just have to wait until they re-invent some of the flying machines mentioned by RJ in the BWB :cry: , like the sho-wing, which we are told was used for short and long range transport. it was used for all overseas travel, apparantly. From RJ's description, they were the AOL's answer to airplanes. Wonder how long it'll take Rand's engineering schools to come up with them! :lol: We havn't read about them in a while, but didn't they make a steam engine? Something like that anyway.

[Besolyn]

yeah, it pulled like 50 wagons from Cairhien to Tear

 

never thought about the misinterpretation of old documents, but that makes great sense

[Incubate]

That steam engine is the start of an industrial revolution...just like it was for us...

[walkerhound]

Majsju: i really like that idea it kind of shows just how deferent the two ages actually are.

 

in the age of legends ASIDE COULD FLY(yea, by standing in line at the jetblue ticket counter), how amazing!? then stuff like the oath rod and the origin of the "song" it shows how nobody has anything but the vaguest idea what the AGL was like.

 

 

50 wagons from Cairhien to Tear by steam wagon? Considering how quickly the schools are producing technological leaps we might be seeing those air planes any day now.

[Mardragon]

I think the power of flight could be achieved via the power of earth rather than the power of wind or lifting. I.e. instead of thinking in terms of lifting oneself with the power, maybe one should think in terms of defying gravity. True, gravity is more generated by the earth (or indeed any object) rather than being the earth itself, but I think it might fit within the 'earth' area of the Power in the world of these books.

 

On a related note, I saw this documentary last week called 'The Science of Superman'. It stated that flying might be possible if Superman's body could generate sub-atomic particles called gravitons (presumably thus allowing him to manipulate gravity). Gravitons themselves are a theoretical sub-atomic particle and thus might not even exist... but it was interesting none-the-less...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the flying stuff were just a mythical exageration since there is no mention of it from the Forsaken.

 

On saying that, Rand and Baalzamon fought in the air at the end of one of the earlier books didn't they? I'm not convinced it was achieved with the One Power however. I think it might just have been the power of the horn of Valere - i.e. it sends them into the sky where they act as focal points of power influencing the two forces in the battle bellow, the dead warriors (and those fighting with them) and the Seanchan.

[Luckers]

They fought in the mist generated by the Horn and an image of them was seen accross the sky. If they'd actually been in the sky fighting they likely wouldn't have been seen... too small and too much fog around.

 

As for 'gravitons'. This is a bastard child of star trek and holds no basis in fact. Gravity is a force, not a partical, expressed by the formula F = -G m(1)m(2)/r^2 where gravity (F)is shown as the negative of the Gravitational constant (G which = 6.67x10^-11) times the mass of the first object (m(1)) and the second object (m(2)) over the distance between the centres of the objects squared (r^2).

 

To defy gravity one must generate a force equel and oposite to the force of gravity at your position. There is no such thing as anti-gravity, or no gravity. Even in space where it seems there is no gravity, all that is happening is that the astronaut and the spaceship are falling at the exact same rate. According to an understanding of gravitational potential energy, gravity decreses to zero only at the same time an object approaches infinity. They cannot come to be at the same time. Which means, pretty much, that they can never come to be.

[Chel Vanin]

Thanks for dumbing down that last post for us below average folks, Luckers. Now that I understand gravity we can get on to the important stuff.

 

Such as, would Demandred or Moridin look better in a spandex superhero uniform? Should they wear capes? both critical questions to the fashionable Forsaken...(Sorry got this mental picture of Demandred flying through the air fists first in a superman costume when the superman piece came up)

 

Anyway I'm pretty sure the schools, however fast they seem to be developing, have a bit to go until they start flying...although that one inventor appaerently tried to use a hand glider or some such almost "Broke her fool neck" according to Idrien :) Maybe she'll come up with it.

 

Speaking of inventions I hope to see a lot of Aludra's dragons in AMOL, that would be exciting.

[Luckers]

Was that sarcasm my friend? It'd be more reasoned if i wasn't responding to someone specifically.

[Vo0]

This is slightly off topic but i just thought i'd ask

 

In KoD when Elayne gets Avi to pick up all the T'Al and see what they do,

the "smooth curved" blue ter angreal that can be used to grow something ?

Could that be one of the amulets or whatever you call them for growing waygates ?

[Incubate]

yep, it sure is...

[Chel Vanin]

Yes, Luckers it was sarcasm, I know you were just explaining but there were so many numbers and things that I had to make a crack

 

P.S. No one answered the crucial question...Moridin, or Demandred :D

[Luckers]

Yeah well dude, if u ever dismiss someones answer without backing it up with reasoning, ill crack down on you... Till then deal with the fact that sadly you weren't the centre of my attention when making that post.

[Jedimuppet]

They fought in the mist generated by the Horn and an image of them was seen accross the sky. If they'd actually been in the sky fighting they likely wouldn't have been seen... too small and too much fog around.

 

As for 'gravitons'. This is a bastard child of star trek and holds no basis in fact. Gravity is a force' date=' not a partical, expressed by the formula F = -G m(1)m(2)/r^2 where gravity (F)is shown as the negative of the Gravitational constant (G which = 6.67x10^-11) times the mass of the first object (m(1)) and the second object (m(2)) over the distance between the centres of the objects squared (r^2).

 

To defy gravity one must generate a force equel and oposite to the force of gravity at your position. There is no such thing as anti-gravity, or no gravity. Even in space where it seems there is no gravity, all that is happening is that the astronaut and the spaceship are falling at the exact same rate. According to an understanding of gravitational potential energy, gravity decreses to zero only at the same time an object approaches infinity. They cannot come to be at the same time. Which means, pretty much, that they can never come to be.[/quote']

 

We don't really know what gravity is, or how it works. In fact, the classification of gravity as a force is sort of a hack. What is acting on what, and what is the agent of that attraction? Gravity is the most enigmatic of the things we 'understand'.

J

[Luckers]

Thats not completely true, we understand the effects of gravity very well, as well as certain things that dont cause it (like gravity particles... gravity is neither mass nor energy, therefore at no point a particle, or exchangeable with particles). It was to those two things that i was speaking in my post.

[Hoop Snake]

I know how they can fly. They make another mass bigger than Earth at stick it in the sky, and when they want to fly they pull the greater mass closer to earth so the gravity pulls them up towards it, and then move it away again for equal gravity so they float. Then they can beat their wings to travel in whatever direction. You think it is stupid? It is! :lol:

[Incubate]

Hoop Snake, that makes perfect sense :D :D

 

i had a thought the other day, rare deal there , Rand has a person working in flying objects, a.k.a. planes, it's more of a Wright brothers thing at the moment but, if you can get who can channel Wind, like one of the Windfinders from the Seafolk, to make wind strong enough to maintain flight/gliding for a long period of time, then you could probably fly with it...

[mike]

this is a rather bizarre point to even guess at in this tale. there are so many bits-o-info that pertain to the old aes sedai - the foresaken being in that category - that trickle out from eack of them as they are questioned it must be something that requires no machines.